Why Can't we defend dead ball situations?

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Yewsman

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I can immediately think of 4 cases where our inability to defend dead ball situations has cost us dear this season. Orient scored an equaliser (header) from a corner right at the death; Barnsley scored from a corner (header) which proved to be the winner; Notts County scored from a corner; last night MK Dons scored from a free kick which cost us the game. They may be other games this season which I have not seen - no doubt others will point these out. On the other hand how many goals have we scored from dead ball situations?
 



Noticed last night that when Afobe came on, no-one picked him up at corners. Howard had to move Flynn off the post to mark him.

Usually Darren Ward gives out marking instructions for set pieces when the other team make a change.
 
Hate it when someone in the wall moves out of the way (who was it?) as it happened when MK Dons had the FK that led to the goal
 
I don't know if this is a source of the problem but I have a big problem with McCarthy being in the team. The only thing he appears to be doing is upsetting what is generally (with Alcock, McEveley, Harris) a solid back line. Basham has shown promise at centre half and it baffles me that a so-called Premier League player who struggles to pass a ball to feet and often slags off team mates is securely in Clough's plans. Again, I'm not totally sure that the defending of set pieces is down to McCarthy but having such a negative influence in the back four cannot be helping.
 
I do not understand why we have persisted in playing McCarthy. He has made bad mistakes in every game he has played for us, far more than McGahey or Collins have ever done. Send him back and spend the money spent on his wages on someone who is going to make the team better not worse.
 
Hodgyman said:
I do not understand why we have persisted in playing McCarthy. He has made bad mistakes in every game he has played for us, far more than McGahey or Collins have ever done. Send him back and spend the money spent on his wages on someone who is going to make the team better not worse.
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Agreed. I wonder who he tried to blame when he took a free kick last night where he simply passed the ball 5 yards sideways to an MK Dons player?
 
Peter Dornan said:
Agreed. I wonder who he tried to blame when he took a free kick last night where he simply passed the ball 5 yards sideways to an MK Dons player?
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It's amazing how we see things differently at games. I thought both centre halves were very good last night, They organised well and were often on the front foot getting in front of attackers to win the ball. You mention the free kick he took,the one with the attacker 5 yards away who stuck his foot out to win the ball(and so should have been booked) yet McEverley made a similar mistake in open play yet you don't mention this ? We didn't look like conceding in open play but again we seem to lose concentration at set pieces.

The set piece problem is obviously down to certain players not doing their jobs. Only NC will know who is at fault with that.
 
true99blade said:
I don't know if this is a source of the problem but I have a big problem with McCarthy being in the team. The only thing he appears to be doing is upsetting what is generally (with Alcock, McEveley, Harris) a solid back line. Basham has shown promise at centre half and it baffles me that a so-called Premier League player who struggles to pass a ball to feet and often slags off team mates is securely in Clough's plans. Again, I'm not totally sure that the defending of set pieces is down to McCarthy but having such a negative influence in the back four cannot be helping.
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Ah would this be McCarthy who barely trains with our squad in the week but just shows up for matches.

He then expects the rest of his defenders who have been training together all week to accommodate him. Clough said the players were happy with that sitaution but I don't think they really are.
 
Mccarthy not traing with the team during the week wont help how can they practice defending set pieces without a starting centre half being there
 
Pompey_Blade said:
Mccarthy not traing with the team during the week wont help how can they practice defending set pieces without a starting centre half being there
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I don't think the players had the bollocks to question Clough when he asked them what they thought to that situation.
 
Doesn't he train one day with us? Thursday I think. Perhaps this is when they all work on set pieces....?
 
Pompey_Blade said:
Mccarthy not traing with the team during the week wont help how can they practice defending set pieces without a starting centre half being there
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That is utter madness and I'm shocked we still do it based on how many set pieces we have conceded.
 
Bladesman said:
I don't think the players had the bollocks to question Clough when he asked them what they thought to that situation.
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The players have seen how easily Clough has fallen out with other members of the squad. Doesn't paint a picture of a positive attitude behind the scenes to me.
 
In terms of scoring from set pieces, it could be due to the loss of Maguire who not only scored about 6 goals from set pieces, but also will have allowed others to score as the opposition man-mark maguire, bringing the others into play.
His arial presence may also be the reason we're conceding so many, with McEvely etc. not providing the same arial presence at the back.
 



Derby_Blade said:
In terms of scoring from set pieces, it could be due to the loss of Maguire who not only scored about 6 goals from set pieces, but also will have allowed others to score as the opposition man-mark maguire, bringing the others into play.
His arial presence may also be the reason we're conceding so many, with McEvely etc. not providing the same arial presence at the back.
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So how much is promotion to the 2nd division worth, £3M?

Got good value we got there with Hull
 
We haven't been able to defend balls into the box for 4 years. Glad NC eventually saw Collins for being useless. Mccarthy is not much better. Harry was poor at it too - great on the ground, shit in the air. Mcceverly is not good either. It is a sad state of affairs on Morgs that he can't teach these numpties how to defend, or the players are just not good enough at Centre half. Mcceverly has great skill levels, would make a great left back, but never a permanent centre half - just too soft and is mugged so easily (Forte v Oldham). It was easily a free kick last night - what a stupid place to give it away - inexperience is now telling with Mcceverly.

We need 2 x centre halves in January.

I volunteer to drive Mccarthy back to Neil W at Palarse. "Hello Neil, thanks for that, we've got Mccarthy match fit for you. Don't really know why as he is VERY average at L1 level and no where near good enough for the Prem. Oh and by the way, great con trick at the 125 dinner bash, having a quiet word with Nigel and saying you had a decent centre half........in other words thanks for fuck all"

UTB
 
I think Basham would do far better there, but then we are back to missing Wallace in mid field.
Think Basham is an A1 defender wasted in front of goal....
 
bartman said:
It's amazing how we see things differently at games. I thought both centre halves were very good last night, They organised well and were often on the front foot getting in front of attackers to win the ball. You mention the free kick he took,the one with the attacker 5 yards away who stuck his foot out to win the ball(and so should have been booked) yet McEverley made a similar mistake in open play yet you don't mention this ? We didn't look like conceding in open play but again we seem to lose concentration at set pieces.

The set piece problem is obviously down to certain players not doing their jobs. Only NC will know who is at fault with that.
Click to expand...

It is indeed amazing how people see things differently. At the time of posting this, the ratings for the MK Dons game have McEveley with the top average rating - 7.53 - and McCarthy as the worst of the starters at 4.63. So picking on one of Jay's few mistakes would seem a little harsh, whereas pointing out only one of Paddy's many errors would be fairly reasonable imho.
 
Bergen Blade said:


Different angle here (35 seconds -->). Does it go between Doyle's legs? Is he part of the wall, or is the wall the four players to his right? Is the gap to give Howard a clear view of the ball? Baxter loses his man, and the scorer is completely unmarked.
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Think we were unlucky a couple of times with the goal. In the build up to the foul, a clearance took a ridiculous bounce and spun back into the danger area and then when Howard's parry bounced off Afobe/Baxter, it could've gone anywhere but fell straight to the player on the far post.

Maybe it's just the one-eyed bias of the football fan but we never seem to get fortunate bounces like that in the box.
 
Peter Dornan said:
It is indeed amazing how people see things differently. At the time of posting this, the ratings for the MK Dons game have McEveley with the top average rating - 7.53 - and McCarthy as the worst of the starters at 4.63. So picking on one of Jay's few mistakes would seem a little harsh, whereas pointing out only one of Paddy's many errors would be fairly reasonable imho.
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Doyle used to get marked low in the ratings last season even when he played well. I wonder why that would be ?
 
Last night against Southampton was the first time I have seen Basham and Mceverley as a partnership at centre back. I thought they were outstanding particularly Bash. He has to be better than McCarthy? Southampton had 5 corners and various free kicks into our box and we never really looked like conceding from a dead ball situation. Was that due to poor play by Southampton or was it that our defence was so much better with Bash playing centre half? Added to that the defence just looked so much better in open play as well. Please Nigel keep Bashenbauer at CB and leave McCarthy out.
 
I was not at the Gillingham game today but have seen the goals on YouTube. Same old problem of not defending dead ball situations. This thread was posted in December 2014 and there were many goals given away from DBS after this. My last post praised the defence in the Southampton game but this reinforces that in League 1 you need a team (and a defence) to play League 1 football. It is a different game than playing Southampton, Newcastle or even Hull. Unlike playing against subtle Premiership players League 1 is a much more physical game with strong physical players who will bully you. You need to be able to defend basic stuff like long throws, corners etc into the box with the opposition throwing big physical players at you. This is how many teams in League 1 look to score their goals. We were undone by this last season and have been outmuscled again today. If NA was not aware of this before today he must surely be aware of this now. We do need at least two big strong physical CBs who can deal with high balls into the box from dead ball situations.
 
Yewsman said:
I was not at the Gillingham game today but have seen the goals on YouTube. Same old problem of not defending dead ball situations.
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Thanks for pointing out the goals are on YouTube Yews.
Wish I hadn't seen them though.
The fourth is Ok but the first three are incomprehensible ghastly, messy things.
 
Yewsman said:
I was not at the Gillingham game today but have seen the goals on YouTube. Same old problem of not defending dead ball situations. This thread was posted in December 2014 and there were many goals given away from DBS after this. My last post praised the defence in the Southampton game but this reinforces that in League 1 you need a team (and a defence) to play League 1 football. It is a different game than playing Southampton, Newcastle or even Hull. Unlike playing against subtle Premiership players League 1 is a much more physical game with strong physical players who will bully you. You need to be able to defend basic stuff like long throws, corners etc into the box with the opposition throwing big physical players at you. This is how many teams in League 1 look to score their goals. We were undone by this last season and have been outmuscled again today. If NA was not aware of this before today he must surely be aware of this now. We do need at least two big strong physical CBs who can deal with high balls into the box from dead ball situations.
Click to expand...
i used to be an advocate of the 'right way' but i've bailed.. sorry pinchy. we need a team of ice hockey players. in fact i'd say that you must be 6 foot tall unless exceptional.. (seems to be Chelsea's mantra)
 
I've heard there is a bag on the bus.
After the game, when they step back on to the bus, the players have a root round to see if they can locate their own testicles.
 



Adkins said they'd been specifically training around set-pieces as they knew it was an issue. I've seen pub teams defend much better than that. In fact, I've played in games where the defending has been equally shoddy, but they didn't involve professional footballers.

So, what the heck are the coaches doing? Do we need new coaches? Why isn't Morgan drafted in to show them how it's done?

Neither keeper nor Collins is taking responsibility. It looked to me that there was no communication between both of them and George not coming when he should do and Collins not attacking the ball or leaving it and putting the blame on the keeper.
 
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