S5Blade
Nom, Nom, Nom
Where is the evidence of lack of invesment? (You saying so unfortunately does not make it factual.......)
Interview with HRH
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Where is the evidence of lack of invesment? (You saying so unfortunately does not make it factual.......)
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pommpey
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Where is there evidence of investment?
Saying 'x number of players' without anything to suggest 'investment' has taken place, given the arrival of HRH heralded investment isn't proving any point.
pommpey
bigbirdblade
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do you ever stop whinging? Why support the blades if all they ever do is piss you off.
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pommpey
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Empty argument-a-rama.
The Blades don't piss me off. Things that piss me off:
1. The board. The lying, divisive shower of wankers
2. Getting beaten because our team isn't strong enough to withstand other teams, regardless of what the board have promised
3. Sheffield Wednesday
4. People who imagine all of these problems will just go away if you adopt a blithely, optimistic approach
5. People who moan about people highlighting the problems
pommpey
bigbirdblade
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to be fair my initial comment was aimed at blader not yourself.
metalblade
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6. Happy clappers
7. People who accept mediocrity.
8. Small club thinking from the board & small minded fans who apologise for them.
9. Gary Sinclair and his so called music (still we won't hear it much as we don't score much)
10. Being below Sheffield wednesday.
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pommpey
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^^^^^
What he said x 100000
pommpey
What he said x 100000
pommpey
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pommpey
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Would help if you 'quoted', BBB
Your post came below a debate between someone else and me and was below my post
pommpey
Deadly_D'Jaffo
Well-Known Member
Why people point to Bristol City signing Agard and say that highlights our lack of ambition makes my piss itch.
I'm no financial whizz, but I would bet that after years of heammerhouging money into the Ferencevaros/Chengdu ventures, the failed eras of Robson/Blackwell and not to mention the small matter of relegation meant that we were financially fucked. Even though McCabe reigned in the spending around 2009/2010, we were stuck with players like Simonsen, Williamson, Quinn & Evans who were all on good wages. It's only as recently as the season before last where we managed to get rid of the these financial obligations entirely. What followed that? Another year of disappointment. We were left with no choice but to cut our cloth to the size of an established L1 club because that's what we was and still are.
If you want to see proof of the investment, see how much debt we were in 18 months ago, then see how much debt we carry now. Not what rival clubs signed in the transfer window.
I'm no financial whizz, but I would bet that after years of heammerhouging money into the Ferencevaros/Chengdu ventures, the failed eras of Robson/Blackwell and not to mention the small matter of relegation meant that we were financially fucked. Even though McCabe reigned in the spending around 2009/2010, we were stuck with players like Simonsen, Williamson, Quinn & Evans who were all on good wages. It's only as recently as the season before last where we managed to get rid of the these financial obligations entirely. What followed that? Another year of disappointment. We were left with no choice but to cut our cloth to the size of an established L1 club because that's what we was and still are.
If you want to see proof of the investment, see how much debt we were in 18 months ago, then see how much debt we carry now. Not what rival clubs signed in the transfer window.
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pommpey
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Cyprus Blade
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I have no inside knowledge but we know they weren't all freebies - McGahey, McNuts and Higdon all have a fee the other 7 were all "free" - of course the free's will have had a signing on fee etc so they aren't totally free as we all know.
The Daily Record reported McNuts fee as £125,000 ( although officially it is undisclosed).
Higdon's is also undisclosed ( interestingly this is the first time he has commanded a fee - all his other moves were as a free.- transfermarkt.co.uk value him at £660k which would seem a little high to be honest and I would hope we didn't pay anything like that especially given his wage cost). His move to Chesterfield failed due to the high level of his wage demands reported at £7k p/w on the Chesterfield site.
Mcgahey's fee hasn't been sorted yet I don't think (could go to tribunal so they may have set a reserve around part of the transfer fund to cover that but he is possibly the most expensive of the signings - he was valued at £1m by Blackpool). Blackpool wanted £5m for Tom Ince but Hull expect to get him for £3.5m so going on that basis we could possibly pay £700k for HM.
On the in side we pocketed £2.5m for HM1 - but over what time span we do not know. We also got an undisclosed fee for Lyle Taylor.to Scunthorpe ( he is valued at £260k on transfermkt.com - again seems a bit high).
The Daily Record reported McNuts fee as £125,000 ( although officially it is undisclosed).
Higdon's is also undisclosed ( interestingly this is the first time he has commanded a fee - all his other moves were as a free.- transfermarkt.co.uk value him at £660k which would seem a little high to be honest and I would hope we didn't pay anything like that especially given his wage cost). His move to Chesterfield failed due to the high level of his wage demands reported at £7k p/w on the Chesterfield site.
Mcgahey's fee hasn't been sorted yet I don't think (could go to tribunal so they may have set a reserve around part of the transfer fund to cover that but he is possibly the most expensive of the signings - he was valued at £1m by Blackpool). Blackpool wanted £5m for Tom Ince but Hull expect to get him for £3.5m so going on that basis we could possibly pay £700k for HM.
On the in side we pocketed £2.5m for HM1 - but over what time span we do not know. We also got an undisclosed fee for Lyle Taylor.to Scunthorpe ( he is valued at £260k on transfermkt.com - again seems a bit high).
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Houso
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I think there's a tendency for supporters to think the board/owners are lying, conniving shithouses no matter who they are. Considering our experiences of Brealey, Woolhouse, Hinchcliffe, Hashimi, McDonald, Green, Colombotti... and yes, McCabe, it's perhaps not surprising.
Problem is, it's no different to the view that we'll forever be a rough bunch of cloggers who only favour long ball football, based on nothing but the Bassett era alone.
Since the current board has been in place (and I count McCabe in this) they've been transparent and HAVE spent money that we wouldn't have otherwise spent. Going back to the financial support for Weir and the money available last season and this season to Clough (which he's told us is available), I don't see they've done much wrong.
What they HAVE done wrong though is:
a) evidently been slow to release funds this season
b) not forced Clough to be less bloody tight (their money is my money etc etc)
We should have a substantial amount available for loans (and future fees), and it really (really) needs spending. The board and Cloughie need to show their hand if we want the playoffs, let alone auto promotion.
Problem is, it's no different to the view that we'll forever be a rough bunch of cloggers who only favour long ball football, based on nothing but the Bassett era alone.
Since the current board has been in place (and I count McCabe in this) they've been transparent and HAVE spent money that we wouldn't have otherwise spent. Going back to the financial support for Weir and the money available last season and this season to Clough (which he's told us is available), I don't see they've done much wrong.
What they HAVE done wrong though is:
a) evidently been slow to release funds this season
b) not forced Clough to be less bloody tight (their money is my money etc etc)
We should have a substantial amount available for loans (and future fees), and it really (really) needs spending. The board and Cloughie need to show their hand if we want the playoffs, let alone auto promotion.
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super_pig
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why is this though? we don't have 'average league one' revenue creation (attendances, cup runs, merchandise)
Cyprus Blade
Active Member
It does seem that the GCI isn't there or isn't there in "significant" amounts but I wonder if any of the experts on FFP here can help me out. I've been trying to understand the stuff I have found on line and it does seem to me that there are significant differences between the Championship FPP rules and SCMP in Division 1.
In the Championship the model used is retrospective accounting with overall club losses being penalised if they are above a certain level - (the permitted level of acceptable deviation and shareholder equity investment being set at £2m and £3m respectively by 2015/16.) Failure to comply will result in penalties. So if we do get promoted next year we would have to ensure that there is an overall loss of no greater than £3m in order to avoid an indefinite transfer embargo or the Fair Play Tax. At a £3m loss the owners would have to inject £1m capital to bring the overall loss to the accepted £2m level.
In League 1 clubs can spend a maximum of 60% of their turnover on wages as I understand it ( the Football League use a broad definition of turnover, which includes donations (not loans) from the owners to the club and injections of equity).There are no restrictions on the amount a club can lose or spend on transfer fees in this model. In League 1, therefore, a wealthy owner can fund the club spending in a way that is not permitted in other divisions.
If so it would seem to me that the maximum overall capital investment on new players we could expect if we are promoted to the championship would be (assuming the club doesn't have a negative balance sheet already - a bit of an if I know) would be £3m without having to sell players. Whereas it would be possible to fund transfers this season above the net £3m figure by GCI (ie the owner injects capital to boost the turnover).
So to build the side up it would seem to me that this season we have considerably more scope for a GCI to be "substantial" in Division 1 than would be the case next year if we were in the championship and the time to start building the side up is now and not next year.
Have I got this right ? If so I fear that the promise of GCI "when we get to the championship" will be accompanied with the disclaimer that it is limited by the FPP regulations.
In the Championship the model used is retrospective accounting with overall club losses being penalised if they are above a certain level - (the permitted level of acceptable deviation and shareholder equity investment being set at £2m and £3m respectively by 2015/16.) Failure to comply will result in penalties. So if we do get promoted next year we would have to ensure that there is an overall loss of no greater than £3m in order to avoid an indefinite transfer embargo or the Fair Play Tax. At a £3m loss the owners would have to inject £1m capital to bring the overall loss to the accepted £2m level.
In League 1 clubs can spend a maximum of 60% of their turnover on wages as I understand it ( the Football League use a broad definition of turnover, which includes donations (not loans) from the owners to the club and injections of equity).There are no restrictions on the amount a club can lose or spend on transfer fees in this model. In League 1, therefore, a wealthy owner can fund the club spending in a way that is not permitted in other divisions.
If so it would seem to me that the maximum overall capital investment on new players we could expect if we are promoted to the championship would be (assuming the club doesn't have a negative balance sheet already - a bit of an if I know) would be £3m without having to sell players. Whereas it would be possible to fund transfers this season above the net £3m figure by GCI (ie the owner injects capital to boost the turnover).
So to build the side up it would seem to me that this season we have considerably more scope for a GCI to be "substantial" in Division 1 than would be the case next year if we were in the championship and the time to start building the side up is now and not next year.
Have I got this right ? If so I fear that the promise of GCI "when we get to the championship" will be accompanied with the disclaimer that it is limited by the FPP regulations.
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i think once we all accept the budgetary restrictions the club has placed on the manager we can all move forward together and i think posts like this make it pretty hard not to see where we are
blader
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Wish I knew pal. It's tragic, but true.
Houso
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If we divide the league into 3 groups of 8 top spenders, 8 average spenders and 8 lower spenders; can you find 8 clubs who have spent more than us (and we're not just talking pre season here; you need to go back to last).
I'd guess we're in the top 4 spenders and certainly have one of the top 2 or 3 wage bills. We certainly don't have an average League 1 budget. Peterborough and Bristol City I have no doubt will be cited, but they've recouped as much as us in transfers over the last season or so.
I'd guess we're in the top 4 spenders and certainly have one of the top 2 or 3 wage bills. We certainly don't have an average League 1 budget. Peterborough and Bristol City I have no doubt will be cited, but they've recouped as much as us in transfers over the last season or so.
You have to tell us how much weve spent first , it seems to vary between " not much " and "a lot "
blader
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And herein lies the problem.
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pommpey
Guest
Feller - we'll never know. It's all smoke and mirrors. No one has yet come up with any definite figure as to how much Clough has spent, how much he has been allowed to spend and if there is any residual. It is this amount - the stuff left over - which is the important.
So, if any of you lot currently tapping your noses and expecting us 'moaners' to shut up about it can fill in the blanks, please tell us:
Since Clough arrived -
a. How much each player cost (in loan fees or transfer fees)
b. Which players were free transfers
c. How much Clough was promised, but to steady the ship and for the Summer Transfer Window
d. What the financial situation is for the money for Maguire (i.e. do we have all of the £2.5m now or whenever, and does Clough have that as cash to strengthen?)
e. Which players did Clough have his eye on and bid on in the STW?
Unless we know these things, we - as supporters - can't really be convinced that the board are actually backing the manager in his bid to strengthen the squad and improve our position.
pommpey
I think you've got it right mate.A pig fan told me all of this at the start of the season and i thought he was just taking the piss,but i read up on it and ended up agreeing with him.His point was if you've got any substantial money to spend,then spend it this season as next season will be very difficult for us to spend it for the reasons you have given,and from what iv'e read so far,he's right.Good post Cyprus Blade .
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