Have the players give up on Wilder ?

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GreasyChipBeattie said:
My point was simply to highlight that he's criticised for blaming others and criticised for not blaming others.
Do we want him to call players out like he did after the Fleetwood game or not?
One minute we're all slating Campbell then Wilder says he left him out of the squad because he needs to do more.
Next we're slating Wilder for demoralising the players by telling them they need to do more.

Lots of variables at play here as to who's really at fault.
I think a combination of the owners, Wilder and some of the players.
He said himself the mark of a good player isn't what he does when playing well, but what he does when things aren't going so well.
Over to you Chris.
Click to expand...

He’s the manager, and we live in a age where his words are easily recorded and scrutinised for the fan base to dissect.

To answer your question, no, I don’t want CW, the manager, calling out any players, especially when it’s to detract from his own failings.

I’ve been a manager for a number of years and if my team fuck up, my boss comes to me, not to them. If someone is consistently poor at their job then the discussion is to move them on as it’s obviously not the right role.

If every conversation I had in the office was to say my team are shit, usually in ear shot of them, I wouldn’t be a manager for much longer.

However they’re failing at the moment, it is his job to rectify that or plan for their future in the club accordingly. However he takes the opposite approach of throwing them under the bus when he’s got the face on. What did he say after Fleetwood, the players “went off script”? Who can blame them when he’s rigidly sticking to square pegs in round holes and calling them shit to anyone who will listen when it inevitably doesn’t work.

Imagine showing up to work knowing that the day before your boss had publicly said you’re shit at your job.

This is supposed to be one of his strengths, backs to the wall and getting the best out of players. What is actually happening though is he’s been found out, and typically it’s literally anyone else fault apart from his own.

Accountability creates successful managers, something which we’ve never seen evidence of from ours.
 



I don’t think it necessarily players giving up. The squad in itself is missing 2 or 3 players who can change the game or do something special.

Hamer and COH going was a final nail in the coffin for this season.

I miss the days of having Doyle, McAtee and Ndiaye.

Every game is going to be tough and hard to watch this season. Any spark has gone from the squad.
 
ekke287 said:
He’s the manager, and we live in a age where his words are easily recorded and scrutinised for the fan base to dissect.

To answer your question, no, I don’t want CW, the manager, calling out any players, especially when it’s to detract from his own failings.

I’ve been a manager for a number of years and if my team fuck up, my boss comes to me, not to them. If someone is consistently poor at their job then the discussion is to move them on as it’s obviously not the right role.

If every conversation I had in the office was to say my team are shit, usually in ear shot of them, I wouldn’t be a manager for much longer.

However they’re failing at the moment, it is his job to rectify that or plan for their future in the club accordingly. However he takes the opposite approach of throwing them under the bus when he’s got the face on. What did he say after Fleetwood, the players “went off script”? Who can blame them when he’s rigidly sticking to square pegs in round holes and calling them shit to anyone who will listen when it inevitably doesn’t work.

Imagine showing up to work knowing that the day before your boss had publicly said you’re shit at your job.

This is supposed to be one of his strengths, backs to the wall and getting the best out of players. What is actually happening though is he’s been found out, and typically it’s literally anyone else fault apart from his own.

Accountability creates successful managers, something which we’ve never seen evidence of from ours.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of that Ekke, but football isn't normal life, or normal employment.
Much goes on within the game that falls well outside normal HR rules.
I think 'calling out players' particularly personally as in Campbell's case, is rarely a good idea, particularly when there is already unrest in the camp.
'Losing the dressing room' is a very real possibility, and there's usually only one outcome when that happens...and it's not promotion!
To be fair to Wilder, he did admit that he felt he'd gone too far in the post Fleetwood interview, but whether that will ultimately result in his downfall, we'll have to wait and see.
Wilder is often unorthodox in establishing his will and doing things his way, whether it's 'heart on sleeve', buying the team drinks at the off license on the way home after an away game, or letting the players and the world know 'what he demands as a minimum'
Bottom line is he cares, a lot, perhaps even a little too much, which can be both effective and corrosive.
 
ekke287 said:
He’s the manager, and we live in a age where his words are easily recorded and scrutinised for the fan base to dissect.

To answer your question, no, I don’t want CW, the manager, calling out any players, especially when it’s to detract from his own failings.

I’ve been a manager for a number of years and if my team fuck up, my boss comes to me, not to them. If someone is consistently poor at their job then the discussion is to move them on as it’s obviously not the right role.

If every conversation I had in the office was to say my team are shit, usually in ear shot of them, I wouldn’t be a manager for much longer.

However they’re failing at the moment, it is his job to rectify that or plan for their future in the club accordingly. However he takes the opposite approach of throwing them under the bus when he’s got the face on. What did he say after Fleetwood, the players “went off script”? Who can blame them when he’s rigidly sticking to square pegs in round holes and calling them shit to anyone who will listen when it inevitably doesn’t work.

Imagine showing up to work knowing that the day before your boss had publicly said you’re shit at your job.

This is supposed to be one of his strengths, backs to the wall and getting the best out of players. What is actually happening though is he’s been found out, and typically it’s literally anyone else fault apart from his own.

Accountability creates successful managers, something which we’ve never seen evidence of from ours.
Click to expand...
Perhaps that evidence comes when they are still getting their cocks stroked for achievements a long time ago?
 
The Crab said:
There isn’t a single captain in that team, including the current incumbent.

Not one.

That’s the culture that inhabits our club like a festering boil.
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Not so sure about the squad but Tanganga is 100% not a captain
I'm amazed Wilder has not took it off him.
 
Bramhall Lane blade said:
It looks to me like the players are no longer playing for CW.
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When you criticise your players after a defeat after saying you trust them the day before that’s sending out the wrong signals and I’m sure his constant criticism of Brooks led to him leaving.He blows hot and cold and doesn’t accept criticism very well.Not sure he’s lost the dressing room quite yet but he doesn’t help himself and when the results aren’t good it highlights his faults.I just think he’s recruited badly and we’re just not very good.
 
The Crab said:
There isn’t a single captain in that team, including the current incumbent.

Not one.

That’s the culture that inhabits our club like a festering boil.
Click to expand...
We've not had a proper captain since Billy Sharp was here - a bloke who could lead and also back it up on the field and in all likelihood challenge Wilder back. I don't think any of this lot would say boo to a goose.

If he wasn't playing then it was Norwood, Egan, O'Connell, Fleck, McGoldrick, Basham, Baldock. They may not have always had the armband but were all players who would stand up and be counted and as a fellow player, you wouldn't want to disappoint.

Those days are gone and everyone associated with the club needs a bloody big rethink if they reckon that those days can somehow be recreated just because Chris Wilder is back in the building again. The stars aligned for four fantastic seasons until it was time to refresh the squad and go again. In 2021, we saw the first signs of adversity with injuries, a poor squad and that was when the cracks started to appear. A poor succession plan and a manager who was seemingly unable to admit mistakes, at least outwardly to the "punters".

Bringing him back again was the right thing to do this time last year, as a "better the devil you know" to guide us out of the shit. Medium to long term though, it needs to be better than what we've seen so far and I'm not convinced that Wilder and those at the top are the ones to deliver that.

The next few weeks are going to be pivotal as to whether we can threaten the top 8 or tread water for the next 5/10 years like Preston, Derby, Bristol City, Millwall, QPR, Blackburn etc until the wheels finally fall off. If we come back from the break as turgidly as we went into it, then its going to get ugly quite quickly.
 
S74Blade said:
With passing accuracy at 68%, there is no wonder we lost another game. Surely a professional footballer should be able to pass a fcking ball to his own man. What are we doing in training?
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Theoretically a team can have 100% passing accuracy and 99% possession and still lose a game.

Currently that's our problem, trying to retain possession without any ambition and risk going forward.

There's a number of reasons we're like we are, but IMO, a lack of pace, and the ability to hold the ball up top, are the 2 major reasons we are so poor atm.
 
Striker said:
Theoretically a team can have 100% passing accuracy and 99% possession and still lose a game.

Currently that's our problem, trying to retain possession without any ambition and risk going forward.

There's a number of reasons we're like we are, but IMO, a lack of pace, and the ability to hold the ball up top, are the 2 major reasons we are so poor atm.
Click to expand...
Agree. There's no risk factor to any of our play, we don't break lines as we don't have a player who can play on the half turn and turn defence into attack and we don't have the players who actually can break lines, so they take the easy pass and play it sidewards/backwards. Be a cricket score if the 18/19 squad played this lot.
 
A big part of the best squads CW built was that he brought in either Captains or Player of the Year winners as much as possible, we have sold ours, brought non in and the one who is our captain, shouldn't be. I never see him motivating his players or showing leadership
 
Badger Blade said:
We've not had a proper captain since Billy Sharp was here - a bloke who could lead and also back it up on the field and in all likelihood challenge Wilder back. I don't think any of this lot would say boo to a goose.

If he wasn't playing then it was Norwood, Egan, O'Connell, Fleck, McGoldrick, Basham, Baldock. They may not have always had the armband but were all players who would stand up and be counted and as a fellow player, you wouldn't want to disappoint.

Those days are gone and everyone associated with the club needs a bloody big rethink if they reckon that those days can somehow be recreated just because Chris Wilder is back in the building again. The stars aligned for four fantastic seasons until it was time to refresh the squad and go again. In 2021, we saw the first signs of adversity with injuries, a poor squad and that was when the cracks started to appear. A poor succession plan and a manager who was seemingly unable to admit mistakes, at least outwardly to the "punters".

Bringing him back again was the right thing to do this time last year, as a "better the devil you know" to guide us out of the shit. Medium to long term though, it needs to be better than what we've seen so far and I'm not convinced that Wilder and those at the top are the ones to deliver that.

The next few weeks are going to be pivotal as to whether we can threaten the top 8 or tread water for the next 5/10 years like Preston, Derby, Bristol City, Millwall, QPR, Blackburn etc until the wheels finally fall off. If we come back from the break as turgidly as we went into it, then its going to get ugly quite quickly.
Click to expand...
In the space of a few short months we've gone from a PO final that was huge for the club, to Lincoln City at home that is also huge for us and for Wilder's future.

How quickly things can turn?
 
madeinsheffield said:
A big part of the best squads CW built was that he brought in either Captains or Player of the Year winners as much as possible, we have sold ours, brought non in and the one who is our captain, shouldn't be. I never see him motivating his players or showing leadership
Click to expand...
Yes it's a question that should be asked at Wilders next interview.Seems to be open to replying to tricky questions at the minute ! Maybe radio Sheffield might take this forward or would they be scared of Wilder being a bit spikey and chicken out of it.
 



54yrblade said:
In the space of a few short months we've gone from a PO final that was huge for the club, to Lincoln City at home that is also huge for us and for Wilder's future.

How quickly things can turn?
Click to expand...
With any other club a loss against Lincoln and he’d be gone but that won’t happen Wilder runs the fcking club.
What a fcking mess we’re in
 
Lane Ender said:
With any other club a loss against Lincoln and he’d be gone but that won’t happen Wilder runs the fcking club.
What a fcking mess we’re in
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I want him to turn it around but if he doesn't no they won't just let us keep not picking up points.

If we get results without performances yeah they will keep going on. But should we continue to drop down the table I can't see them not wanting to change at some point.
 
Lane Ender said:
If we’re rock bottom pal nothing will change he just does what he wants the cult of Wilder is strong unfortunately
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If that scenario happened the pressure on the club would be big and the owners would also want to try and roll the dice to stay up.

This cult of Wilder thing is rubbish. He's got respect at the club but it doesn't mean he can remain in post whatever the results.

I hope that he can turn it around and therefore we do not need to change manager, but if things didn't improve and the results are not coming then time will will tell and a change would eventually happen.
 
Our current predicament does beg the question, what happens when Wilder is no longer the right person to take us forward.

A comment from the recent interview with Rosen stands out to me, where he said that Wilders tentacles spread a lot deeper than they knew, and to me that presents a risk. If removing him at the moment that we need to take a new direction pose such a risk that it sets us back even further than just removing a manager? Because if it does, we're in a tricky position.

Would Wilder know when to step back and have they created a succession plan to deal with the situation? I'm not saying now is the right time for him to go, I'm not qualified beyond that of a regular supporter, but as a club, we need to be able to change manager without it destabilising the club more than it would for any other club.
 
CPB said:
If that scenario happened the pressure on the club would be big and the owners would also want to try and roll the dice to stay up.

This cult of Wilder thing is rubbish. He's got respect at the club but it doesn't mean he can remain in post whatever the results.

I hope that he can turn it around and therefore we do not need to change manager, but if things didn't improve and the results are not coming then time will will tell and a change would eventually happen.
Click to expand...
I’d love to be wrong but everyone has their time and he’s yesterday’s news.
 
Lane Ender said:
With any other club a loss against Lincoln and he’d be gone but that won’t happen Wilder runs the fcking club.
What a fcking mess we’re in
Click to expand...
im not so sure i think if we lose to lincoln it will turn toxic at the lane and the owners may have no choice you can visualise the scenario now with micky collins and phil jones taking temporary charge
 
Wilder has talked about seeking to bring in experience rather than gambling (my word, I can't recall how he put it) on youth.

Those of a certain age will remember that we've been here before. Gordon Cowans. Stuart McCall, the sainted Paul McGrath. Each gave a masterclass in how an old head could anchor teams.

There's an earlier example, at the back end of Porterfield (or was it McEwen?). Peter Withe. Phil Thompson. Ken McNaught (who wasn't too bad if memory serves). In an era when the game was so much slower than today we saw how packing a team with 'experience' could unravel.

But it's experience that Wilder wants. Rather than McGrath we have Choudrey and Doherty. Instead of Cowans and McCall we have Rothwell, Shackleton and the rest. Ouch. So players not of the same quality, but of an age that you'd reasonably expect could bring athleticism along with their experience. Ouch.

Wilder has squandered the resources at his disposal in this and previous transfer windows - Chong, McGuiness, Cannon, Doherty, (and I'll call it early) Ayew - and failed to lay any foundations whatsoever for a brighter future. I say limited resources, but I keep reading that our wage bill remains at the upper end of the Championship.

What happens next season? What is to be done?
 
Blade 1971 said:
Wilder has talked about seeking to bring in experience rather than gambling (my word, I can't recall how he put it) on youth.

Those of a certain age will remember that we've been here before. Gordon Cowans. Stuart McCall, the sainted Paul McGrath. Each gave a masterclass in how an old head could anchor teams.

There's an earlier example, at the back end of Porterfield (or was it McEwen?). Peter Withe. Phil Thompson. Ken McNaught (who wasn't too bad if memory serves). In an era when the game was so much slower than today we saw how packing a team with 'experience' could unravel.

But it's experience that Wilder wants. Rather than McGrath we have Choudrey and Doherty. Instead of Cowans and McCall we have Rothwell, Shackleton and the rest. Ouch. So players not of the same quality, but of an age that you'd reasonably expect could bring athleticism along with their experience. Ouch.

Wilder has squandered the resources at his disposal in this and previous transfer windows - Chong, McGuiness, Cannon, Doherty, (and I'll call it early) Ayew - and failed to lay any foundations whatsoever for a brighter future. I say limited resources, but I keep reading that our wage bill remains at the upper end of the Championship.

What happens next season? What is to be done?
Click to expand...
Wilder didn't sign Chong or Mcguinees and there's doubts about whether he wanted Cannon
 



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