"Still unbeaten remember"

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We will do well to not lose their next 3 league games, especially if we are intent on lining up with the same formation which exposes the midfield and I turn the exposed the defence.

Blackburn won’t fancy losing at home to us twice.

Wolves already have far better players and won one, drawn one, lost one doesn’t look like grounds for a formidable home record.

Stoke have heavily invested and are at home.

Definition of insanity is trying the same things over and over and expecting different results.

Bolton wasn’t turning the corner, it was getting away with it.

The formation had to change and the right back had to change. Maybe now he’s got the negative result which reinforces this he’ll amend the tactics.

I wouldn’t trust the Board to make any radical change especially with the morale of the squad probably finely balanced and to be fair Chris has managed that aspect quite well.

But he needs to learn. Our midfield is too week to play a 2.
 
Doesn't matter what formation we play. We have no tactics. No patterns of play. We do not score repeatable goals. This was the same problem under wilder in the 92 point season.

I'm not calling for wilder out. However a 442 doesn't work. Campbell couldn't get a game in the super draw league on Sunday mornings. Not sure what's happened to peck, tanganga is a liability 50% of the time.

We needed serious reinforcements and we didn't get the squad coverage.
 
Spadge54 said:
Lost one game ffs talk about over reaction!!!
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The performances are the indicators all been poor average at best against Blackburn reserves then mugged Cardiff mugged Bolton
Got out arses spanked today second half we were second to everything and they played with energy as did Cardiff and Bolton
We are one paced one dimensional it’s one defeat but come 20 September it will be another 2 at least
 
Think we need to come back down to earth, the owners have thrown the club to the wolves we ain’t going to be top of the league… we lost today to a Norwich side that last season the end form was immense are expected to be up there this season and have had some good additions… agree we haven’t played well but some of the stuff I’m reading is mind boggling and screams entitled
 
Spadge54 said:
Lost one game ffs talk about over reaction!!!
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Won one game with the last kick of the game against the L1 playoff winners. Sold our best players again without replacing them, total over reaction!!
 
Spadge54 said:
Lost one game ffs talk about over reaction!!!
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I don’t think this thread is an overreaction.

It would be foolish not to learn from things.

He may be seeking solutions and he may feel that they often only get ratified real time.

But 4-4-2 hasn’t worked. Yes we were unbeaten before today. It’s not the result. We played 4-4-2 at Cardiff and gave away 30 shots. We then played the same against Bolton and could easily have lost despite a promising first half.

The warning signs were there. I’m not saying we throw the baby out with the bath water but we have to learn form mistakes and playing 4-4-2 with these players is a mistake. It needs rectifying asap.
 
Seasons floor is a relegation battle

Unfortunately it feels like the sessions ceiling is Preston’s usual campaign. Just a nothing season, making up the numbers and a complete waste of everyone’s time
 
Champagneblade said:
We will do well to not lose their next 3 league games, especially if we are intent on lining up with the same formation which exposes the midfield and I turn the exposed the defence.

Blackburn won’t fancy losing at home to us twice.

Wolves already have far better players and won one, drawn one, lost one doesn’t look like grounds for a formidable home record.

Stoke have heavily invested and are at home.

Definition of insanity is trying the same things over and over and expecting different results.

Bolton wasn’t turning the corner, it was getting away with it.

The formation had to change and the right back had to change. Maybe now he’s got the negative result which reinforces this he’ll amend the tactics.

I wouldn’t trust the Board to make any radical change especially with the morale of the squad probably finely balanced and to be fair Chris has managed that aspect quite well.

But he needs to learn. Our midfield is too week to play a 2.
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Lincoln?
 
The squad is NOT the problem
The manager is

Favourite players
Rigid brain dead formations
Tippy tap possession inevitably losing it
Demented opinion of what he is doing
No apparent idea of what is happening on the pitch and how to improve it - OFTEN SO EASILY
 



Champagneblade said:
I don’t think this thread is an overreaction.

It would be foolish not to learn from things.

He may be seeking solutions and he may feel that they often only get ratified real time.

But 4-4-2 hasn’t worked. Yes we were unbeaten before today. It’s not the result. We played 4-4-2 at Cardiff and gave away 30 shots. We then played the same against Bolton and could easily have lost despite a promising first half.

The warning signs were there. I’m not saying we throw the baby out with the bath water but we have to learn form mistakes and playing 4-4-2 with these players is a mistake. It needs rectifying asap.
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It is NOT standard 4-4-2
It does not have wide midfield players playing wide
OR able to make a tackle

We've only been the better team in one game
Away Blackburn who gave 3 debuts
We could have lost every game apart from that one
Which ironically we still could have done if the ref had persisted in making stupid decisions which was the only time they were on top
ie thanks to ref
Rest of games they have been on top thanks to Wilder.
 
Spadge54 said:
Think we need to come back down to earth, the owners have thrown the club to the wolves we ain’t going to be top of the league… we lost today to a Norwich side that last season the end form was immense are expected to be up there this season and have had some good additions… agree we haven’t played well but some of the stuff I’m reading is mind boggling and screams entitled
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The football has been the same for the last 3 seasons,awful outdated hoofball. I admit,we played well for 25 minutes in the first half but after their manager tweaked it at half time,Wilder had no clue again how to change shape. In every match this season we have been 2nd best, no argument . Don’t blame the owners,money has been splashed out alarmingly,trouble is it’s been wasted on dross signings,dross loans,he’s been backed with money only me and you could dream of. His and the scouts selection of loans this season is frightening along with the cost of them.
 
It hasn’t… but this season we haven’t had money to get players in and are suffering from what happened last season when he came in after the summer had been obliterated with awful signings and inept manager and rock bottom after 8 games… the season before that we had 92 pts (which gets you promoted any other season) and lost to a very dodgy var decision in a final to a team that finished in Europe spots the following season ….
 
HOT CURRIE 10 said:
The football has been the same for the last 3 seasons,awful outdated hoofball. I admit,we played well for 25 minutes in the first half but after their manager tweaked it at half time,Wilder had no clue again how to change shape. In every match this season we have been 2nd best, no argument . Don’t blame the owners,money has been splashed out alarmingly,trouble is it’s been wasted on dross signings,dross loans,he’s been backed with money only me and you could dream of. His and the scouts selection of loans this season is frightening along with the cost of them.
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Maybe it is a limitation the manager has to acknowledge. Maybe there are formations he’s less schooled on and less confident with?

Sometimes it is better to acknowledge your limitations.

4-2-3-1 is out. If he isn’t confident to play 4-3-3 then go back and play overlapping centre backs and 3-5-2 / 3-4-1-2.

I know Knill is not here but that is the most I’ve even seen a United team so well drilled.

Might not be exactly the same as before but most of the left backs can double as left wing backs. Whilst Seriki is the ideal RWB you may as well see if Shackleton can do it while you have him fit. I think he has a good engine.

Tanganga having played as an attacking wingbacks for Spurs is an ideal RCB. Then you choose between either Kitching as CB and McCallum/RND as LCB or Baptiste/McGuinness as CB and Kitching as LCB.

As we converted Duffy, who was a winger, to the number 10 then use Donovan there.

Go with BBD and Bamford as your starting front two.

For the midfield two which will have Donovan in front then go Phillips if fit playing a more combative Norwood role and whichever one of the others best suits the match. You’ve got the option to play one up top and a third in central midfield like we did in the PL if we face a particularly difficult game.

I’m not saying it’s perfect but as many have thought we don’t seem to have ‘a thing’. I’d sticking to what we know if the outcome then I’d rather that than simply being outplayed each week playing 4-4-2.
 
Unfortunately this management keeps making the same mistales over and over again. Even though we had no money for new signings the loans have been unimaginative ( with the exception of Donovan). Phillips did nothing last season to justify another loan, Diaz has been very underwhelming which is why Saints are happy to constantly loan him out. Also signs Dougherty as a back up to Seriki, but when needed doesn't play him (Rob Holding anyone) but then signs another midfielder to play right back. No imagination, just repeating mistakes of the past and wondering why the team is constantly getting outrun by younger fitter players
 
Champagneblade said:
Maybe it is a limitation the manager has to acknowledge. Maybe there are formations he’s less schooled on and less confident with?

Sometimes it is better to acknowledge your limitations.

4-2-3-1 is out. If he isn’t confident to play 4-3-3 then go back and play overlapping centre backs and 3-5-2 / 3-4-1-2.

I know Knill is not here but that is the most I’ve even seen a United team so well drilled.

Might not be exactly the same as before but most of the left backs can double as left wing backs. Whilst Seriki is the ideal RWB you may as well see if Shackleton can do it while you have him fit. I think he has a good engine.

Tanganga having played as an attacking wingbacks for Spurs is an ideal RCB. Then you choose between either Kitching as CB and McCallum/RND as LCB or Baptiste/McGuinness as CB and Kitching as LCB.

As we converted Duffy, who was a winger, to the number 10 then use Donovan there.

Go with BBD and Bamford as your starting front two.

For the midfield two which will have Donovan in front then go Phillips if fit playing a more combative Norwood role and whichever one of the others best suits the match. You’ve got the option to play one up top and a third in central midfield like we did in the PL if we face a particularly difficult game.

I’m not saying it’s perfect but as many have thought we don’t seem to have ‘a thing’. I’d sticking to what we know if the outcome then I’d rather that than simply being outplayed each week playing 4-4-2.
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IMO a few holes in that-:
1-If the manager has limitations and less confidence from being a manager a number of years,he should not be in charge of our prestigious club.
2-He does not acknowledge limitations.
3-Overlapping centre backs were found out years ago,hence relegation.
4-Alan knoll,we were all over the place last season and conceded how many?
5-Tanganga was a disaster at Spurs in that position or any other position.
McCallum,never played lob as I know?
Baptiste and Mcguiness not trusted at all,hence Kitching.
6-Brentford own Romelle and I’m sure they would object with tinkering. Duffy was a different player.
7-Phillips does play Ollys role,but passing isn’t as accurate % wise to switch play or hit front men.
8- One up top and a 3rd in midfield in the PL-hammered and still we have no legs in midfield.
Hope you are not too bored reading that.
 
HOT CURRIE 10 said:
IMO a few holes in that-:
1-If the manager has limitations and less confidence from being a manager a number of years,he should not be in charge of our prestigious club.
2-He does not acknowledge limitations.
3-Overlapping centre backs were found out years ago,hence relegation.
4-Alan knoll,we were all over the place last season and conceded how many?
5-Tanganga was a disaster at Spurs in that position or any other position.
McCallum,never played lob as I know?
Baptiste and Mcguiness not trusted at all,hence Kitching.
6-Brentford own Romelle and I’m sure they would object with tinkering. Duffy was a different player.
7-Phillips does play Ollys role,but passing isn’t as accurate % wise to switch play or hit front men.
8- One up top and a 3rd in midfield in the PL-hammered and still we have no legs in midfield.
Hope you are not too bored reading that.
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I’ve always disagreed with your point 3. I think losing O’Connell meant we simply lost one side. Before he got injured, almost immediately after the restart we’d got to about 6th. We had no replacement for him.

You disagree with too much on things we can’t change.

So my question back is, with the things we can’t change, what do you propose? And to make it interesting, let’s say we don’t have the funds to sack Chris.

What are your recommendations within those confines?
 
Thread name needs changing to played four lost one. Played poorly but really not a bad position to be in at this point.
 
As I've said before, we are one injury to Cooper away from huge relegation trouble. The negligence of not replacing Adam Fucking Davies is down to Wilder.

Cooper has been excellent so far this season but every good save he makes goes in with Davies in goal.

It'll also be a disaster if/when Bamford is unavailable too given that Cannon and Campbell don't look like could hit a barn door at the moment.

Every point now is crucial.

utb
 
Spadge54 said:
Think we need to come back down to earth, the owners have thrown the club to the wolves we ain’t going to be top of the league… we lost today to a Norwich side that last season the end form was immense are expected to be up there this season and have had some good additions… agree we haven’t played well but some of the stuff I’m reading is mind boggling and screams entitled
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Define thrown the club to the wolves?

You talk about coming back to earth. Does that not include losing parachute payments, meeting SCR, having rules that only allow owners to put in a max of £15 mill per year (max of £30 mill over 3).

Losing some key players was inevitable. Hamer, Brooks, and COH ended up being the ones.

Are Kitching, Doherty, Choudhury, Riedewald, BBD, Donovan, Philips all playing for free.

Signing on fees in some cases. Players who are either earning high wages or did earn high wages. Choudhury was apparently on 70k a week. Whilst inevitably he's taken a big cut, he's no doubt on serious money still.

And supposedly one more tomorrow.
 
Spadge54 said:
Think we need to come back down to earth, the owners have thrown the club to the wolves we ain’t going to be top of the league… we lost today to a Norwich side that last season the end form was immense are expected to be up there this season and have had some good additions… agree we haven’t played well but some of the stuff I’m reading is mind boggling and screams entitled
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It screams knowledgable been here before and a real worry about the teams ability and immediate future
Budget wise we still have a decent ish ceiling at 28 mill so defo top ten budget wise
But look at the shambolic recruitment other than Donovan the rest are all past their sell by date
Ironically other than our goalkeeper our best player appears to be a 19 year old loanee
having said this if we saw some structure plan tactical expansion or even experimentation we’d accept it
But when you are at home 3-1 down the options are Arblaster playing left wing and Shackleton right wing
It was basically the manager throwing the towel in to keep the score down
His response after his battle war cry last Aril May they are tired” ffs
Unless there is a massive up turn in player form and a plan to fit the players we have we are destined for a bottom six scrap
Nowt to do with entitled other than we are entitled to care about our club
 
Champagneblade said:
I’ve always disagreed with your point 3. I think losing O’Connell meant we simply lost one side. Before he got injured, almost immediately after the restart we’d got to about 6th. We had no replacement for him.

You disagree with too much on things we can’t change.

So my question back is, with the things we can’t change, what do you propose? And to make it interesting, let’s say we don’t have the funds to sack Chris.

What are your recommendations within those confines?
Click to expand...
We had a lot better players then,a very tight unit who could defend,play football in midfield and had proven goalscorers. You cannot keep banging the same drum from losing one player. That WAS a proper football team. Every club loses a major player,but the clever managers adjust. Changing is hypothetical and wishful. Many mistakes have occurred through terrible loans,signings and it’s still happening over the last few seasons and 3 players could not wait to go this season. A 4 4 2 is tried and trusted but we have no legs in midfield,predominantly right sided with pace. With that you need to press from the front two (don’t do it),midfield (don’t do it) and sweep in tandem or cover from the back (don’t do it) . Instructions are playing the long ball (to who),we are outdated in everything from the manager etc as how far we are behind,the Norwich manager etc al showed us yesterday.
 
HOT CURRIE 10 said:
We had a lot better players then,a very tight unit who could defend,play football in midfield and had proven goalscorers. You cannot keep banging the same drum from losing one player. That WAS a proper football team. Every club loses a major player,but the clever managers adjust. Changing is hypothetical and wishful. Many mistakes have occurred through terrible loans,signings and it’s still happening over the last few seasons and 3 players could not wait to go this season. A 4 4 2 is tried and trusted but we have no legs in midfield,predominantly right sided with pace. With that you need to press from the front two (don’t do it),midfield (don’t do it) and sweep in tandem or cover from the back (don’t do it) . Instructions are playing the long ball (to who),we are outdated in everything from the manager etc as how far we are behind,the Norwich manager etc al showed us yesterday.
Click to expand...
You say can’t keep banging that drum but it’s true while we had a fit O’Connell we were highly effective. Teams didnt figure us out. We simply lost a player, failed to adequately replace and weren’t the same. We were like a sparrow with a broken wing. All our play started to come down the right.

The mistake was that summer. I felt we prioritised the wrong targets. We went for Ramsdale because we obsessed over wanting our own keeper and Brewster. In reality we could have loaned a decent keeper for another year and prioritised adding a ball playing left centre back.

Likewise I felt with Lundstram already signalling his intentions we should have pushed him out even if for a low fee and brought in a more committed replacement. We were linked with Grilitch and Camara at the time we signed Berge, maybe another one of those.

So I’d have gone for a LCB and a CM when we went for GK and CF!

If we weren’t adequately replacing O’Connell then we should have gone something like 4-3-2-1 because the whole advantage of 5-3-2 went with JOC.

You're of course entitled to your view and mine won’t change, I just don’t recall while JOC was fit and healthy, thinking this isn’t working anymore, these guys have found a way to stop us. But I do agree it was quite hard to recruit for because of the skills needed but not impossible.

Back to today, it feels like we neither have the maverick players nor a thing either. We need to find one and quick, to make this group click.
 



As I’ve said a good manager finds different ways. I don’t mind a debate and I know that you are looking down a one way street as a Wilder supporter. As I keep saying,if this was Selles,he would have been burnt in Sheffield town centre on Saturday night.
 
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