Are we skint? does the Prince actually have wonga?

[SUFC Handsworth]

"Are we skint? does the Prince actually have wonga?"

If we believe what McCabe has to say then we're debt free, he wrote it all for a £1 about this time last year. I'd say for this division the club is cash rich as the club has taken an extra £5m revenue that wasn't budgeted for over the last few months - and not spent that much of it.

I'd guess in all likelihood the Prince is still very much loaded, take it he's still ploughing in £bs to his Saudi club.

 

[judge]

I can't understand the anger at perceived failings at the club.
Maybe I'm not as big a blade as some, maybe it's apathy, maybe I am just more accepting of how the world works as I get older.

I just cannot get my head around the overwhelming dismay of some people to a football club not signing a player on a day that a media company has decided to hype up beyond it's actual worth.

Could someone explain to me simply without the subjective thoughts on boards, budgets or such, why? After all there are a lot more subjects worthy of the fire & brimstone.

I think Its because thats the last day you can sign anyone till january

 

[Kev Gee]

Isnt Wonga that pay day loan company
Strange business for the prince to be in

And very unislamic to be charging that level of interest.

Id hazard that no. He doesnt own Wonga.

 

[Pierre's PC]

I think Its because thats the last day you can sign anyone till january

And that's worth the level of comments seen on here the last couple of days?

 

[sheffielder]

I can't understand the anger at perceived failings at the club.
Maybe I'm not as big a blade as some, maybe it's apathy, maybe I am just more accepting of how the world works as I get older.

I just cannot get my head around the overwhelming dismay of some people to a football club not signing a player on a day that a media company has decided to hype up beyond it's actual worth.

Could someone explain to me simply without the subjective thoughts on boards, budgets or such, why? After all there are a lot more subjects worthy of the fire & brimstone.

Ask Nigel. He wanted to sign 3 players on transfer deadline day after bringing in 11 players through the summer. I am pretty sure Judge or whoever never asked for Nigel to bring it down to the wire.

 

[metalblade]

I can't understand the anger at perceived failings at the club.
Maybe I'm not as big a blade as some, maybe it's apathy, maybe I am just more accepting of how the world works as I get older.

I just cannot get my head around the overwhelming dismay of some people to a football club not signing a player on a day that a media company has decided to hype up beyond it's actual worth.

Could someone explain to me simply without the subjective thoughts on boards, budgets or such, why? After all there are a lot more subjects worthy of the fire & brimstone.

It is not all about not buying players on TDD, The Prince and his buddy Jim Phipps have been here close on a year now, so too Nigel, Kevin McCabe considerably a lot longer, we have needed a least one striker for the last year and they know it, McCabe knows we have needed that striker for much longer and yet this has still not been addressed unless they think Higdon is the answer. One or two posters said last season we would not bring in a striker but rather we would make do and mend until something happens in October. Well sorry to point this out but October gives us no guarantees and may well be too late for us to score enough goals for a top two finish.

 

[Pierre's PC]

Ask Nigel. He wanted to sign 3 players on transfer deadline day after bringing in 11 players through the summer. I am pretty sure Judge or whoever never asked for Nigel to bring it down to the wire.

Thank's for the totally irrelevant deflection away from the actual question.

Would "U Mad Bro?" have been better?

 

[sheffielder]

Thank's for the totally irrelevant deflection away from the actual question.

Would "U Mad Bro?" have been better?

 

[Pierre's PC]

It is not all about not buying players on TDD, The Prince and his buddy Jim Phipps have been here close on a year now, so too Nigel, Kevin McCabe considerably a lot longer, we have needed a least one striker for the last year and they know it, McCabe knows we have needed that striker for much longer and yet this has still not been addressed unless they think Higdon is the answer. One or two posters said last season we would not bring in a striker but rather we would make do and mend until something happens in October. Well sorry to point this out but October gives us no guarantees and may well be too late for us to score enough goals for a top two finish.

We "signed" 3 strikers in the summer:
Mcnulty - A success in Scotland and a player that Scougall knows well as they played together
Higdon - A player who was scoring regularly for a relegated team in the Dutch top flight
Porter - A playyer that is obviously not the answer but who, last season played a useful cameo role during the upturn in results.

The fact that these players have not started the season banging goals in for fun is obviously a concern and I wouldn't be surprised (and the important thing here is that I don't know for certain) that it has been discussed at management level, just as everyone who has a job is discussed at a higher level if they are struggling.

But if in the next 4-5 games the goals start coming and we win games by more than a single goal then what, will it be as if the last couple of days never happened? Likewise if they don't come will people just work each other up to a frenzy using inaccurate or subjective views of the clubs "spending" power to beat that sick horse to death?

 

[metalblade]

We "signed" 3 strikers in the summer:
Mcnulty - A success in Scotland and a player that Scougall knows well as they played together
Higdon - A player who was scoring regularly for a relegated team in the Dutch top flight
Porter - A playyer that is obviously not the answer but who, last season played a useful cameo role during the upturn in results.

The fact that these players have not started the season banging goals in for fun is obviously a concern and I wouldn't be surprised (and the important thing here is that I don't know for certain) that it has been discussed at management level, just as everyone who has a job is discussed at a higher level if they are struggling.

But if in the next 4-5 games the goals start coming and we win games by more than a single goal then what, will it be as if the last couple of days never happened? Likewise if they don't come will people just work each other up to a frenzy using inaccurate or subjective views of the clubs "spending" power to beat that sick horse to death?

Seriously, I'll not mention Porter but is Higdon much of an improvement ? McNulty was always going to be one for the future we are paper thin up front even David Blunkett can see that at a glance, those in charge at the lane have had a lot longer to work it out. Jesus wept.

 

[Pierre's PC]

Seriously, I'll not mention Porter

Ok but why not, was what I said about him false or subjective?

is Higdon much of an improvement ?

Did you actually know when he signed that he wouldn't be an instant success?

McNulty was always going to be one for the future

You mean like Scougall?

we are paper thin up front even David Blunkett can see that at a glance, those in charge at the lane have had a lot longer to work it out. Jesus wept.

Refer to my last post, if the goals were going in then would we cease to be paper thin?

 

[wizadry]

I can't understand the anger at perceived failings at the club.
Maybe I'm not as big a blade as some, maybe it's apathy, maybe I am just more accepting of how the world works as I get older.

I just cannot get my head around the overwhelming dismay of some people to a football club not signing a player on a day that a media company has decided to hype up beyond it's actual worth.

Could someone explain to me simply without the subjective thoughts on boards, budgets or such, why? After all there are a lot more subjects worthy of the fire & brimstone.

I think what it boils down to is what our fans here Pierre's PC ,i'd just like to stress that i think were not far off as a squad to challenge,but we still need a couple of quality loans and its in the loan window where i always thought we would finish our buisness off,not the TDD.

We all heard Clough say he wanted 3 players after the Preston game,and then MB said we had bids in for three players on TDD,so when the fans know that Clough thinks we are still short and then we don't go on to get any of the targets,thats what gets some of the fans into a frenzy.

I admire the club for trying to be connected to us as supporters,but i just think they could have gone about this in a slightly different way imho, i.e by not telling the supporters 3 bids were in is one example,only let us find out when the bid is accepted and the deal is done.

I know people will say atleast their being honest,but i think there is a time and a place for that,and on this occasion they should have told the fans to mind their own buisness.

 

[alcoblade]

On the positive side, the club has turned around from the car crash of a year ago, things are much brighter. There are a number of things to be positive about, and the current squad might well get promoted.

My concern, and we should all avoid lazily grouping opposite views into just clapper and slasher, is that the reality continues to fall short of the promise. I do not accept Porter is a viable striking option, so I believe we need another - and given the ongoing talk of investment on the back of other really positive financial winds, it's an area we've inexcusably failed to tackle as a club.

In the back of my mind remains a concern our lack of real drive to fill the position is because we're going to sign Evans - and I'm really uncomfortable with that, but not for moral reasons.

UTB

 

[itsinyerblood]

I think what it boils down to is what our fans here Pierre's PC ,i'd just like to stress that i think were not far off as a squad to challenge,but we still need a couple of quality loans and its in the loan window where i always thought we would finish our buisness off,not the TDD.

We all heard Clough say he wanted 3 players after the Preston game,and then MB said we had bids in for three players on TDD,so when the fans know that Clough thinks we are still short and then we don't go on to get any of the targets,thats what gets some of the fans into a frenzy.

I admire the club for trying to be connected to us as supporters,but i just think they could have gone about this in a slightly different way imho, i.e by not telling the supporters 3 bids were in is one example,only let us find out when the bid is accepted and the deal is done.

I know people will say atleast their being honest,but i think there is a time and a place for that,and on this occasion they should have told the fans to mind their own buisness.

Hi Wiz, there's a flip-side to that logic. If the club had maintained silence, not mentioned a word to anyone, then some supporters would have accused them of sitting on their backsides. If the club had responded that they had put offers in for three players the accusation it's quite likely that those supporters would have seen this as the club covering it's back, so whatever the club decided to do it can't win in the eyes of some supporters.

Give me a manager who is straight with us, that I can accept, whether it's good news or bad. Anything less will lead to suspicions between supporters and club, which means that whatever we're told - the club's in good shape, the club's chasing a star player etc, etc - we'll never believe them. As it is, we have a few posters on here suggesting that the manager and club are liars, all deliberately done to wind up the supporters. When I read that it makes me wonder if what's really being revealed is how lies are part of the every day world these posters live in, how lies are part of their lives so they expect it from others? Yes, of course, no one tells the truth any more so let's expect it from everyone else shall we?

 

[alcoblade]

Hi Wiz, there's a flip-side to that logic. If the club had maintained silence, not mentioned a word to anyone, then some supporters would have accused them of sitting on their backsides. If the club had responded that they had put offers in for three players the accusation it's quite likely that those supporters would have seen this as the club covering it's back, so whatever the club decided to do it can't win in the eyes of some supporters.

Give me a manager who is straight with us, that I can accept, whether it's good news or bad. Anything less will lead to suspicions between supporters and club, which means that whatever we're told - the club's in good shape, the club's chasing a star player etc, etc - we'll never believe them. As it is, we have a few posters on here suggesting that the manager and club are liars, all deliberately done to wind up the supporters. When I read that it makes me wonder if what's really being revealed is how lies are part of the every day world these posters live in, how lies are part of their lives so they expect it from others? Yes, of course, no one tells the truth any more so let's expect it from everyone else shall we?

There are very few people who are accusing anyone of lying, and I think you should address them individually. I think there are a bigger number, including me, who think certain emphasis is misplaced.

UTB

 

[Pedro Verde]

I havent read all through this thread but for anyone suggesting that there hasnt been investment in the club they are ignoring the fact that weve signed a shed load of players we may have not paid a lot out in transfer fees but there are wages and signing on fees to take into account. We also shelled out on loan fees and wages in the 2nd half of last season We sold Maguire but probably have not had all the money for him yet, there is money to be spent otherwise we would not have put bids on the table for 3 players of Championship standard if that was not the case.
The Drama Queens that were kicking off because we hadnt signed anybody on deadline day obviously dont believe that we were seriously trying to sign these players
Iam disappointed we have not signed the quality striker we know we all need, but they dont grow on trees they are in demand and
its probably difficult to persuede the good ones to step down into L1

 

[wizadry]

Hi Wiz, there's a flip-side to that logic. If the club had maintained silence, not mentioned a word to anyone, then some supporters would have accused them of sitting on their backsides. If the club had responded that they had put offers in for three players the accusation it's quite likely that those supporters would have seen this as the club covering it's back, so whatever the club decided to do it can't win in the eyes of some supporters.

Give me a manager who is straight with us, that I can accept, whether it's good news or bad. Anything less will lead to suspicions between supporters and club, which means that whatever we're told - the club's in good shape, the club's chasing a star player etc, etc - we'll never believe them. As it is, we have a few posters on here suggesting that the manager and club are liars, all deliberately done to wind up the supporters. When I read that it makes me wonder if what's really being revealed is how lies are part of the every day world these posters live in, how lies are part of their lives so they expect it from others? Yes, of course, no one tells the truth any more so let's expect it from everyone else shall we?

Evening iiyb.I can understand all of the first paragraph,and thats why i said i'm happy that they are trying to interact with us supporters,thats great,as alcoblade says,its the best position we have been in for along time as regards relationships between board and fans,it was just my take on it thats all and like you say,no matter what the board says we are always going to get fans including myself at times questioning why they have done things a certain way,and thats what keeps the forum healthy.

Cloughy does seem to be straight with us and that can only be a good thing.This is the season for me though where he can really get the club going places.Last season i thought he was in a no lose situation as i didn't think we should have been down there in the first place,no pressure on him some might say,but he still did a great job and i won't take anything away from him,but this season,where the pressure is different,that is when i think we will be able to judge whether or not he's going to be here for the long haul and take us up to some dizzy heights,and i for one hope he is.NW got long enough,lets give this bloke the time and funds and i'm sure he'll do the job.Promotion out of this league this year,and then give him 3 or 4 years to get us ready for the Prem,lets be ambitious for once.

 

[wizadry]

There are very few people who are accusing anyone of lying, and I think you should address them individually. I think there are a bigger number, including me, who think certain emphasis is misplaced.

UTB

Yes,and they both get tarred with the same brush.People like to find out whats happened and why its happened, i'm in that bracket.Like yesterday for example,i didn't think we would be signing anyone,i thought we would always wait until the loan window,but i still wanted to try to get to the bottom of why we didn't sign the 3 players we bidded for.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Discuss.

Who we signing him from and what position does this Discuss fella play?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I am trying to wrap my head around this thread: Here is what I see, just since the end of last season: 11 permanent signings; 6 extensions; no player sell off; no panic buying; focussed, purposeful talent recruitment; no debt; financial strength to do what we want without borrowing; capital investment at BDTBL; new desso pitch funded & scheduled; an outstanding gaffer and an equally outstanding front office MD; a new and much improved commercial department; great new kit sponsor with the most successful kit sales in memory; one key player sold, but only because he demanded to be allowed to go; a gaffer empowered to spend proceeds of that sale as he sees fit; unity in the board room; unity in the clubhouse; and, for the most part, unity in the terraces. It is true we are not wasteful in our spending. We are calculated, cautious and even cuthroat in guarding the treasury. Does all that add up to "Same owd"? I don't know. The people who say nothing has been spent have no idea how many millions of pounds have gone in to making their club viable in the years ahead. Last season featured expensive management changes on & off pitch, expensive player buy outs, the paying off of old disputes and lawsuits, offloading 35 million pounds in debt, bringing in a load of players on permanents and loans, an historic undefeated run combined with a run of clean sheets unlike any in recent memory, a goal-rich FA Cup Semi Final appearance at Wembley, and a second half climb from the bottom of the table to almost making it into the playoffs. There are more great things in store for us this season. We are in a great spot. We are well backed. We are intent on promotion. Sure, there's more to do to ensure that outcome. Plenty more. But we are on task and have more reasons to be positive than negative.

offloading 35 million pounds in debt

That's the key thing

 

[Grappler]

Does anyone else think that Baxter could turn out to be the 20-goals-a-season man? I would not bet against it. Higdon needs to prove himself yet and McNulty is not getting enough game time. I suppose a loan striker is what we will end up with, but not sure who is available. Murphy and Flynn not started scoring yet and we have to see if JCR and Basham come good in that department as well. Still a long way to go lads. UTB.

 

[Punk Blade]

I think the biggest problem is that the season is too young for the fans to be making a judgement on what the team needs. We had a disappointing couple of league results to start off (arguably tough games), and since then we've done enough to make it through two rounds of the league cup (incl. one famous Premier League scalp) and picked up some good results in the league. Seeing what Clough achieved last season I see no reason to panic. Higdon is looking like he could be a flop, but some of the new boys are fairly young and will improve. Having seen the development of Maguire and Coady (now at higher levels) during Clough's time last season I am expecting to see the likes of McGahey, Wallace, Baxter, Scougall, McNulty, Reed, Diego, Dimaio and maybe more really come on and be important players come the end of the season. There's also a lot more to come from Murphy and Flynn.

If it were December and we were struggling to break into the top six then yes, we ought to be addressing why that is and make suitable moves in January. However, I expect to see us in the top 4 by January and it will be fine tuning or perhaps one outstanding addition to see the job through.

For now the season has barely got going; the manager doesn't think we are missing any vital components and he is best placed to be making those judgements.

Personally I'm not bothered about the '20-goal demi-god' everyone obsesses over every year. As has been mentioned plenty recently, Shipperley, Webber and Kabba finished joint top scorers with 11 in our last promotion season. I just want to score enough goals to win the next match, and win enough matches to get the most points, and I don't care who scores them.

 

[wizadry]

I think the biggest problem is that the season is too young for the fans to be making a judgement on what the team needs. We had a disappointing couple of league results to start off (arguably tough games), and since then we've done enough to make it through two rounds of the league cup (incl. one famous Premier League scalp) and picked up some good results in the league. Seeing what Clough achieved last season I see no reason to panic. Higdon is looking like he could be a flop, but some of the new boys are fairly young and will improve. Having seen the development of Maguire and Coady (now at higher levels) during Clough's time last season I am expecting to see the likes of McGahey, Wallace, Baxter, Scougall, McNulty, Reed, Diego, Dimaio and maybe more really come on and be important players come the end of the season. There's also a lot more to come from Murphy and Flynn.

If it were December and we were struggling to break into the top six then yes, we ought to be addressing why that is and make suitable moves in January. However, I expect to see us in the top 4 by January and it will be fine tuning or perhaps one outstanding addition to see the job through.

For now the season has barely got going; the manager doesn't think we are missing any vital components and he is best placed to be making those judgements.

Personally I'm not bothered about the '20-goal demi-god' everyone obsesses over every year. As has been mentioned plenty recently, Shipperley, Webber and Kabba finished joint top scorers with 11 in our last promotion season. I just want to score enough goals to win the next match, and win enough matches to get the most points, and I don't care who scores them.

Good post mate.There is just one thing i'd like to pull you up on,and that is the third paragraph where you say Cloughy doesn't think we are missing any vital components.He clearly does though because he came out and said after the Preston game that we need 3 players but apart from that,good post.

 

[Punk Blade]

Good post mate.There is just one thing i'd like to pull you up on,and that is the third paragraph where you say Cloughy doesn't think we are missing any vital components.He clearly does though because he came out and said after the Preston game that we need 3 players but apart from that,good post.

Cheers Wiz.

I'm taking the result from deadline day of no panic buys to mean these three were not meant for filling existing holes, which is what I meant by vital. Consensus seems to be that space would be made for them by loaning out Porter, Butler and McGinn and considering Clough gave contracts to Butler and Porter this summer I'd hope he's happy to have them as back up for now. I certainly agree with him and others that the squad should be improved during the course of the season, and I'm reasonably confident that if the right players become available we'll get them.

Hopefully we'll see a couple of good loans come in during the loan window.

 

[judge]

Cheers Wiz.

I'm taking the result from deadline day of no panic buys to mean these three were not meant for filling existing holes, which is what I meant by vital. Consensus seems to be that space would be made for them by loaning out Porter, Butler and McGinn and considering Clough gave contracts to Butler and Porter this summer I'd hope he's happy to have them as back up for now. I certainly agree with him and others that the squad should be improved during the course of the season, and I'm reasonably confident that if the right players become available we'll get them.

Hopefully we'll see a couple of good loans come in during the loan window.

No panic buys just panic failed bids

 

[wizadry]

Cheers Wiz.

I'm taking the result from deadline day of no panic buys to mean these three were not meant for filling existing holes, which is what I meant by vital. Consensus seems to be that space would be made for them by loaning out Porter, Butler and McGinn and considering Clough gave contracts to Butler and Porter this summer I'd hope he's happy to have them as back up for now. I certainly agree with him and others that the squad should be improved during the course of the season, and I'm reasonably confident that if the right players become available we'll get them.

Hopefully we'll see a couple of good loans come in during the loan window.

I see Punk Blade ,and i totally agree as regards vital then.

I also hope we get the loans,not only for us fans,but also for Cloughy's sake as i think he could turn into a downbeat figure if we don't get them in(not that i don't think we will get them btw).

 

[grafikhaus]

I think the biggest problem is that the season is too young for the fans to be making a judgement on what the team needs.

Agreed. Beat Rochdale next week and we're on course for 76+ points. Only an average, I know, but we'd have come through a pretty severe start with a misfiring team.

 

[JJBlade]

"Leaving a certain irony that we then couldn't afford any of our 3 targets."

There is a difference between not being willing to pay the demanded price and not being able to afford them.

We could just buy one of them then, or maybe two. But losing all three suggests that they were never targeted in the first place and that counts as another lie as far as I'm concerned.
They can sell whoever they like, not buy whoever they like, lose to whoever they like but telling one lie after another is almost as embarrassing as those that keep on believing them.

 

[Pedro Verde]

We could just buy one of them then, or maybe two. But losing all three suggests that they were never targeted in the first place and that counts as another lie as far as I'm concerned.
They can sell whoever they like, not buy whoever they like, lose to whoever they like but telling one lie after another is almost as embarrassing as those that keep on believing them.

Youre quite embarrasing calling all and sundry in the club liars. Clough will not pay over the odds for players and will not pay over the odds in wages thats why Freeman didnt come. We have valuations on players that we wont exceed both in fees and wages
Clough has said this many times in interviews, that along with the clubs not wanting to sell is why we didnt sign them.
Move on to the loan window we got some good loans last season

 

[Pierre's PC]

We could just buy one of them then, or maybe two. But losing all three suggests that they were never targeted in the first place and that counts as another lie as far as I'm concerned.
They can sell whoever they like, not buy whoever they like, lose to whoever they like but telling one lie after another is almost as embarrassing as those that keep on believing them.

This is bollocks and not worth any more time on it than has already been wasted.