We’re a selling club - but are we a good one?

[blades_95]

I was thinking earlier about the sellable assets we have in the current squad who could bring in a decent fee ahead of next season’s inevitable rebuild. Clearly the key players which might fetch a good fee (£10m plus) are the academy boys - Peck, Seriki, Brooks & Oné (Osula type potential). We the have a few players who might fetch a good fee but are probably below their optimum value after this season - Hamer, Tanganga, Cooper, Cannon, Burrows.

This got me thinking back to recent seasons, as we always have that tag of being a selling club and selling our best players. Most clubs are selling clubs in fairness, but that’s a separate topic. I was quite shocked & concerned looking back since 2019 at the players we’ve sold for a decent fee (around 5m plus euros, according to TransferMarkt) considering our time in the Prem & the top of the Champ in the past 7 years.

Players sold for €5m plus include:

• Souza - €15m (slight profit on what we paid?)
• Anel - €7m (slight profit on what we paid?)
• Archer - €16m (basically a loan deal so no profit)
• Osula - €11m (academy, pure profit)
• Trusty - €7m (slight profit on what we paid)
• Bogle - €6m (slight profit on what we paid?)
• Ndiaye - €17m (academy, pure profit)
• Berge - €14m (less than what we paid)
• Ramsdale - €28m (€8m profit)

Now I appreciate the fees may be a bit inaccurate, but this is a bit damning of our recruitment over the past 7 years. The only decent profits we’ve made are on Ndiaye, Osula & Ramsdale and only one of those was a first team signing we sold on. Interestingly only 3 of these were Wilder signings - Ramsdale, Bogle & Berge. Also shows if it wasn’t for the academy over the past few years, we’d be in a much worse position!

In that time we’ve also seen a lot of big money signings leave on free transfers - McBurnie, Brewster, Luke Freeman, Mousset. We got much lower fees than we could have for Ndiaye, Berge, Anel & Bogle because of their contracts running down - I appreciate there’s some nuance in there around keeping players and pushing for promotion etc, but as a rule we have to get better at selling players.

If we’re going to be successful in the next few years we need to get much better not just in recruitment, but in developing players and selling them at the right time. Well run clubs maximise the value when selling players, at the right time for the club, and reinvest in other players who can be developed. We need to accept we’re a selling club & be smarter about it, and get much stronger on recruiting younger players who we can develop & sell on for decent profit and move away from the bulk of the squad having little to no sell on value.

In short - less of the Rothwell’s, more of the Anel / Souza’s please!

 

[CarlMcBlade]

We’re not just a selling club…We are a bargain basement discounter.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I was thinking earlier about the sellable assets we have in the current squad who could bring in a decent fee ahead of next season’s inevitable rebuild. Clearly the key players which might fetch a good fee (£10m plus) are the academy boys - Peck, Seriki, Brooks & Oné (Osula type potential). We the have a few players who might fetch a good fee but are probably below their optimum value after this season - Hamer, Tanganga, Cooper, Cannon, Burrows.

This got me thinking back to recent seasons, as we always have that tag of being a selling club and selling our best players. Most clubs are selling clubs in fairness, but that’s a separate topic. I was quite shocked & concerned looking back since 2019 at the players we’ve sold for a decent fee (around 5m plus euros, according to TransferMarkt) considering our time in the Prem & the top of the Champ in the past 7 years.

Players sold for €5m plus include:

• Souza - €15m (slight profit on what we paid?)
• Anel - €7m (slight profit on what we paid?)
• Archer - €16m (basically a loan deal so no profit)
• Osula - €11m (academy, pure profit)
• Trusty - €7m (slight profit on what we paid)
• Bogle - €6m (slight profit on what we paid?)
• Ndiaye - €17m (academy, pure profit)
• Berge - €14m (less than what we paid)
• Ramsdale - €28m (€8m profit)

Now I appreciate the fees may be a bit inaccurate, but this is a bit damning of our recruitment over the past 7 years. The only decent profits we’ve made are on Ndiaye, Osula & Ramsdale and only one of those was a first team signing we sold on. Interestingly only 3 of these were Wilder signings - Ramsdale, Bogle & Berge. Also shows if it wasn’t for the academy over the past few years, we’d be in a much worse position!

In that time we’ve also seen a lot of big money signings leave on free transfers - McBurnie, Brewster, Luke Freeman, Mousset. We got much lower fees than we could have for Ndiaye, Berge, Anel & Bogle because of their contracts running down - I appreciate there’s some nuance in there around keeping players and pushing for promotion etc, but as a rule we have to get better at selling players.

If we’re going to be successful in the next few years we need to get much better not just in recruitment, but in developing players and selling them at the right time. Well run clubs maximise the value when selling players, at the right time for the club, and reinvest in other players who can be developed. We need to accept we’re a selling club & be smarter about it, and get much stronger on recruiting younger players who we can develop & sell on for decent profit and move away from the bulk of the squad having little to no sell on value.

In short - less of the Rothwell’s, more of the Anel / Souza’s please!i think bogle went free ! End of contract

 

[KMC-1889]

We’re absolutely shocking at trading players. Most of our expensive signings left for nothing (Mousset, Brewster, McBurnie, Egan etc…) and those that didn’t we had to sell at a discount because we let them run their contracts down (Bogle, N’Diaye, Berge)

The only one we cashed in on was Ramsdale and that was only because he went on strike.

 

[de g.]

I was thinking earlier about the sellable assets we have in the current squad who could bring in a decent fee ahead of next season’s inevitable rebuild. Clearly the key players which might fetch a good fee (£10m plus) are the academy boys - Peck, Seriki, Brooks & Oné (Osula type potential). We the have a few players who might fetch a good fee but are probably below their optimum value after this season - Hamer, Tanganga, Cooper, Cannon, Burrows.

This got me thinking back to recent seasons, as we always have that tag of being a selling club and selling our best players. Most clubs are selling clubs in fairness, but that’s a separate topic. I was quite shocked & concerned looking back since 2019 at the players we’ve sold for a decent fee (around 5m plus euros, according to TransferMarkt) considering our time in the Prem & the top of the Champ in the past 7 years.

Players sold for €5m plus include:

• Souza - €15m (slight profit on what we paid?)
• Anel - €7m (slight profit on what we paid?)
• Archer - €16m (basically a loan deal so no profit)
• Osula - €11m (academy, pure profit)
• Trusty - €7m (slight profit on what we paid)
• Bogle - €6m (slight profit on what we paid?)
• Ndiaye - €17m (academy, pure profit)
• Berge - €14m (less than what we paid)
• Ramsdale - €28m (€8m profit)

Now I appreciate the fees may be a bit inaccurate, but this is a bit damning of our recruitment over the past 7 years. The only decent profits we’ve made are on Ndiaye, Osula & Ramsdale and only one of those was a first team signing we sold on. Interestingly only 3 of these were Wilder signings - Ramsdale, Bogle & Berge. Also shows if it wasn’t for the academy over the past few years, we’d be in a much worse position!

In that time we’ve also seen a lot of big money signings leave on free transfers - McBurnie, Brewster, Luke Freeman, Mousset. We got much lower fees than we could have for Ndiaye, Berge, Anel & Bogle because of their contracts running down - I appreciate there’s some nuance in there around keeping players and pushing for promotion etc, but as a rule we have to get better at selling players.

If we’re going to be successful in the next few years we need to get much better not just in recruitment, but in developing players and selling them at the right time. Well run clubs maximise the value when selling players, at the right time for the club, and reinvest in other players who can be developed. We need to accept we’re a selling club & be smarter about it, and get much stronger on recruiting younger players who we can develop & sell on for decent profit and move away from the bulk of the squad having little to no sell on value.

In short - less of the Rothwell’s, more of the Anel / Souza’s please!

Counterpoint:
When you look at profit, it's not on how much they sold for vs what they were bought for, but how much they sold for against the remaining value. We had Anel for three years, I don't remember the length of his contract but if we assume 4 years, then the sale of €7m was against a "book value" of €1.5m which is a much healthier profit.

Also missing from the equation is the value they brought in. Anel, N'diaye, Egan, Bogle, Berge etc were instrumental in our getting promoted, so the return on them is massively higher than just the transfer fees paid and received too.

 

[jt64]

Are we a good selling club? The only outgoings I think have been anywhere near value are Anel and Berge. Everyone else has gone on the cheap

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Ramsdale was pretty good business.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I'd argue it was one of the artist formerly known as Prince's strongest assets. He's a Saudi businessman and if anyone has worked with Saudis you'll know they're a nightmare. Since he became sole owner, i don't think we sold cheap and maximised every penny we could on sales.

Conversely, we spunked shit loads of moneh on dross, but that's a whole other thread...

 

[AdamSufc1997]

look at how much we sold Ndiaye for there’s your answer

 

[Old Programme seller]

As a club when we get to the premier league we aren’t a sexy club to attract great players one of the reasons why we get dross

 

[Bladesman101]

That list is completely depressing, and I cannot fathom why Bettis is still a part of this football club, due to the fact he has overseen 3 premier league seasons, many parachute seasons, and that list of player sales and we’ve got NOTHING to show for it, NOTHING.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Are we a good selling club? The only outgoings I think have been anywhere near value are Anel and Berge. Everyone else has gone on the cheap

The 1st post shows good sales…”good” as in making profit.
It’s been explained so many time. We basically set Berge and N’Diaye valuation at £30 million each.

So when entering the final season transfer values are halved……hence they both went for nearer £15 million.

I think setting a £30 million valuation for each player was reasonable.

look at how much we sold Ndiaye for there’s your answer

Don’t think you understand how transfers work.
At the end of the season his value would have been £0.00…….length of the remaining contract effects the value.

He refused to sign a contract extension (making him the highest paid player) explaining he was desperate to join the club he supported as a boy.
If we’d have forced him to play the final season….his morale would have suffered….this could have created negativity around the training ground.

 

[Sheffsteel]

That list is completely depressing, and I cannot fathom why Bettis is still a part of this football club, due to the fact he has overseen 3 premier league seasons, many parachute seasons, and that list of player sales and we’ve got NOTHING to show for it, NOTHING.

What you on about? It was great business to make a profit…..that’s the whole point of this thread.

Sales are all about timing……for example….last season Hamer was the best player in the division and we’d have got £20 to £25 million for him.
This season he’s been poor…..and now we’ll do well to get £12 million for him.
In hindsight we should have sold him in the Summer but no club has hindsight.

In order to maximise sales…..the whole point is to sell players when they’re at their best….this is never popular with fans.

Also the money brought in was used to invest in more players….we’ve paid out some of the highest salaries in the division for the past few years.
We’ve been one of the most financially powerful clubs in the EFL able to outbid others to acquire most of our targets.

Our big problem has been when we’ve targeted higher profile/ expensive signings like Brewster, McBurnie, Cannon and even Tanganga.
It seems Wilder is like Warnock……..give them freebies and bargain basement players and they mould them into a really good team
However give them money to spend on bigger name players and they can’t bring out their best.

 

[Sheffsteel]

As a club when we get to the premier league we aren’t a sexy club to attract great players one of the reasons why we get dross

That’s totally wrong…..players are generally only bothered about salary….and relegation clauses.

If we offer £80 a week….we can easily attract decent PL players….. great players generally want £100 to £150K a week.
The owner of Nottingham Forest gambled offering PL level salaries during their 1st season.

Maranskis basically did a Chansiri…..gambling the future of the club on being in the Premier league.
Chansiri’s high stakes risk failed……Maranskis high stakes risk paid off when they managed to avoid relegation.

The Prince choose the sensible route and refused to gamble the future of the club.

 

[jt64]

The 1st post shows good sales…”good” as in making profit.
It’s been explained so many time. We basically set Berge and N’Diaye valuation at £30 million each.

So when entering the final season transfer values are halved……hence they both went for nearer £15 million.

I think setting a £30 million valuation for each player was reasonable.

You are either confusing how book value works, oversimplifying it, or just confused in general. If I buy a house at £300k, it increases in value to half a million, then sell it for £400k, by your logic it is a good sale as I have made a profit. By my logic I have set a hundred grand on fire.

 

[Shakin Stevens is my Dad]

Ramsdale was pretty good business.

Did not McCabe sell Ramsdale for 1 million quid, it then cost us 18 million to buy him back. It’s a bit like selling your car for scrap, then buying it back 3 years later after it’s been fully restored and polished by someone else.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Mediocre. Most of our big sales are academy players for two reasons: we don't recruit as well as we could externally, and the good recruits are normally here a long time until their value diminishes. We're not great at offloading those at the right time, albeit we get the on pitch value. Some recent recruits didn't make much sense e.g. Tanganga and Hamer. They were unlikely to appreciate in value due to their age profile. Every signing in the Hecky season was made with us fully cognisant that we were highly likely to go down so this should've been part of the thinking

We've been unlucky with serious injuries to big assets (O'Connell, Arblaster, Berge x 2) but that's another story.

As for the academy players... we have a bad habit of not being proactive re contracts meaning the market value of the player declines. Brooks, Seriki, Peck are the latest players that will soon enter their final two years. Not sure about Ryan One.

 

[Godbeblade]

I think names like Cameron Archer and Austen Trusty were sensible going into the premier league... not good, but sensible. If we'd have blown 20 million each on 'Johannes Bloggs' and 'Jose N'Blogg' and they would have played even similar to Archer and Trusty we'd be up in arms about how the club are throwing money away.

Everyone wants the cheaper options to become world beaters but most players dont. The question after is how do you fill the hole in the finances. If we're about evens after signing punts then the club won't suffer to much.

Where Sheffield United are good is the academy- you only have to look through the history of England line ups to see quite a few have come through Shirecliffe. Unfortunately we've got to enjoy them whilst they're still with us and try and get the most money from them after they go.

 

[Tarqs]

We’re absolutely shocking at trading players. Most of our expensive signings left for nothing (Mousset, Brewster, McBurnie, Egan etc…) and those that didn’t we had to sell at a discount because we let them run their contracts down (Bogle, N’Diaye, Berge)

The only one we cashed in on was Ramsdale and that was only because he went on strike.

We got many years out of Egan who was only 3m ish. Bargain.

 

[blades_95]

Counterpoint:
When you look at profit, it's not on how much they sold for vs what they were bought for, but how much they sold for against the remaining value. We had Anel for three years, I don't remember the length of his contract but if we assume 4 years, then the sale of €7m was against a "book value" of €1.5m which is a much healthier profit.

Also missing from the equation is the value they brought in. Anel, N'diaye, Egan, Bogle, Berge etc were instrumental in our getting promoted, so the return on them is massively higher than just the transfer fees paid and received too.

True & a good point from a P&L / FFP or whatever it’s now called perspective.

I was coming at it more from the angle of how poor we’ve been at recruiting players, improving them & increasing their value. Even on that list nobody was bothered about seeing Trusty, Ramsdale or Archer leave which really highlights how poor we’ve been in that aspect.

On the flip side we got the best out of older players like Sharp, Norwood, Egan, Fleck, Baldock, Stevens, Didsy etc but that was a long time ago now.

 

[KMC-1889]

We got many years out of Egan who was only 3m ish. Bargain.

No argument about his quality or impact but in the context of 'are we a good selling club' the right thing to do would have been to sell him at the peak of his value prior to the 21/22 season and bring in the next prospect.

Ultimately this lack of forward planning is what resulted in most of that squad walking out on frees.

 

[Old Programme seller]

If I remember correctly Celtic were after Enda but his value dropped dramatically and Fleck was chased by Wet Spam but with that it could all be paper talk

 

[wadblade]

Who is a better selling club

 

[Gin&Juice]

Never recovered since McCabe acted like the BOGOF guy from Safe Style UK. You know the one!

 

[de g.]

True & a good point from a P&L / FFP or whatever it’s now called perspective.

I was coming at it more from the angle of how poor we’ve been at recruiting players, improving them & increasing their value. Even on that list nobody was bothered about seeing Trusty, Ramsdale or Archer leave which really highlights how poor we’ve been in that aspect.

On the flip side we got the best out of older players like Sharp, Norwood, Egan, Fleck, Baldock, Stevens, Didsy etc but that was a long time ago now.

But our model has never been about buying players to sell them on for more. The only player who maybe fits into that mould (or even signalled a move towards the Brentford/Brighton model) that I can think of was Berge.

Our model is about buying well for the first team, and recruiting well for the youth teams. And we remain quite good at that - the stats show that we and Charlton are the most productive non Category 1 academies, and it's likely that we'll see a couple of those leave this year for £ms in (in football terms) "pure profit".

We do need to get better at recruiting for the first team, with more McGoldricks, Egans and Norwoods; fewer Archers and Brewsters. In time we might manage to develop the capacity to identify and develop players like Brentford or Brighton do, but that's a multi year project.

Easier in the short term will be to build on our strengths. We've recruited well to the youth teams, in a large part because we're recognised as providing a pathway to professional football to those who haven't quite made the cut at the very big Category 1 academies. Sort out facilities and strengthen our pathways into the men's game both at Bramall Lane and elsewhere, and we'll continue to have that conveyor of talent which can then provide cash (and in the best cases , players) for the first team.

 

[PokerBlade]

I think we've done reasonably well with sales. Got money for the likes of Jebbison and Osula that hadn't scored any goals yet. Got a good balance with players like Anel, Ndiaye, and Berge between what we got out of them on the pitch and then what we got in cash.

The big problem is you look at our biggest signings otherwise and they're flops. McBurnie had some good Championship spells but was a big failure for the price tag. Brewster was a huge failure all round. Players like Callum Robinson or Luke Freeman. Even Berge and Souza were no good until dropping back down to the Championship. Hamer's obviously great, for sake of balance.

Even this season, who have we spent money on that's been a success? Tanganga's been far from perfect but I'd argue we'd be a lot worse off if we hadn't got him in. Otherwise, it's Bamford and Riedewald that were free agents. Meanwhile we paid fees on the likes of Matos who shouldn't be anywhere near us. We've signed Rothwell and he's got a lot to do to convince me he's not the new Dean Hammond. And last season it was Cannon, who manages to be significantly worse than an underperforming Campbell (signed for nowt).

I'm far less bothered by the fact we've needed to sell than the way we've bought.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

If I remember correctly Celtic were after Enda but his value dropped dramatically and Fleck was chased by Wet Spam but with that it could all be paper talk

Sure I once read Chelsea wanted Stevens and Arsenal wanted Fleck

 

[S64 Blade]

The big money signings are generally the ones we’ve struggled to sell on at a profit. However, that’s just an outcome of our decline post signing them, rather than it necessarily being specific to that player.

You only have to look at the mad prices that average at best players go for from stable Premier League sides now to understand that it’s not necessarily down to ability and more down to a club’s ability to command a higher fee.

 

[S64 Blade]

duplicate post - please delete

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Stack em high…Sell em cheap.