Wilder - 'January can't come soon enough'

[The Crab]

It's what he does
Sadly

All I’m going to add is this.

If this had been any other manager, would results have been this tolerated? I genuinely don’t think they would.

I’ve said before and I’ll say it again. Wilder is one of the best, perhaps the best we’ve ever had. He turned us around, got us believing, going places.

That Wilder, sadly, isn’t this one. He’s no more the answer now than if we were to Bring back Warnock.

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

All I’m going to add is this.

If this had been any other manager, would results have been this tolerated? I genuinely don’t think they would.

I’ve said before and I’ll say it again. Wilder is one of the best, perhaps the best we’ve ever had. He turned us around, got us believing, going places.

That Wilder, sadly, isn’t this one. He’s no more the answer now than if we were to Bring back Warnock.

But he's OUR wrong answer, and that's important to a lot of people on here (not me I might add).

 

[The Crab]

But he's OUR wrong answer, and that's important to a lot of people on here (not me I might add).

And we will always be stuck in that line of thinking

 

[Danetheblade]

All I’m going to add is this.

If this had been any other manager, would results have been this tolerated? I genuinely don’t think they would.

I’ve said before and I’ll say it again. Wilder is one of the best, perhaps the best we’ve ever had. He turned us around, got us believing, going places.

That Wilder, sadly, isn’t this one. He’s no more the answer now than if we were to Bring back Warnock.

Nail on the head. The only difference is Warnock would actually get them playing, mainly as he wouldn’t consistently throw them under the bus whilst saying things like “January can’t come soon enough”.

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

If this had been any other manager, would results have been this tolerated? I genuinely don’t think they would.

Most supporters aren't insane enough to think sacking the manager every 6 games is a good idea. It's the usual ones hysterical over Wilder who absolutely would sack him now. Then they'd sack the next one after 5 games unless we're battering everyone.

 

[The Crab]

Most supporters aren't insane enough to think sacking the manager every 6 games is a good idea. It's the usual ones hysterical over Wilder who absolutely would sack him now. Then they'd sack the next one after 5 games unless we're battering everyone.

And here we go again, the usual insulting replies just because someone asks a question, has a different view

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

And here we go again, the usual insulting replies just because someone asks a question, has a different view

Wasn't meaning to insult you. I didn't take your post as meaning you'd sack him.

I think it's fair to call it insane wanting a new manager sacked every few games if we dont do well. And one of the people replying just before is exactly like that. Apologies if you took it as an insult.

 

[coolasanidiot]

And here we go again, the usual insulting replies just because someone asks a question, has a different view

I'd hardly call it 'insulting'. 1889 is correct 'most' fans are not in for sacking and sacking and sacking, Wilder was stupidly sacked and is picking up the pieces, 'most fans' would now stick - Wilder was left with a definite bad hand- last few matches we have played better. Let it play out and get behind him.

Lets hope a week on Sunday evening he's back on the table at the 'Cross'.

 

[dexter101]

All I’m going to add is this.

If this had been any other manager, would results have been this tolerated? I genuinely don’t think they would.

I’ve said before and I’ll say it again. Wilder is one of the best, perhaps the best we’ve ever had. He turned us around, got us believing, going places.

That Wilder, sadly, isn’t this one. He’s no more the answer now than if we were to Bring back Warnock.

There is no point going down the route of sacking him now and I think we probably should have got a couple of more points out of his games, which when Selles was in charge we didn't look like winning a game of football at any point.

You are right though, he has credit in the bank and there is too many scape goats (Selles, Recruitment etc), if a different manager had thrown away points like at Preston, there would be more anger.

I don't think he is the long term answer. I actually hope we don't spend much in January and in effect Wilder is the interim manager this year. I think he has enough there to keep us up. send the loans back in Jan, bring in a couple of trusted loans, fingers cross we stay up. board now have a 6 month period to do some proper planning and then we go into the summer transfer window with some money saved up, a new manager, a clear plan and some well thought out recruitment.

Wouldn't even be adverse to Wilder being moved into a more Director of Football type of role, but bringing in a Manager who is hungry for the onward journey and maybe brings an evolution of SUFC football rather than looking for another revolution.

 

[ancientblade]

There is no point going down the route of sacking him now and I think we probably should have got a couple of more points out of his games, which when Selles was in charge we didn't look like winning a game of football at any point.

You are right though, he has credit in the bank and there is too many scape goats (Selles, Recruitment etc), if a different manager had thrown away points like at Preston, there would be more anger.

I don't think he is the long term answer. I actually hope we don't spend much in January and in effect Wilder is the interim manager this year. I think he has enough there to keep us up. send the loans back in Jan, bring in a couple of trusted loans, fingers cross we stay up. board now have a 6 month period to do some proper planning and then we go into the summer transfer window with some money saved up, a new manager, a clear plan and some well thought out recruitment.

Wouldn't even be adverse to Wilder being moved into a more Director of Football type of role, but bringing in a Manager who is hungry for the onward journey and maybe brings an evolution of SUFC football rather than looking for another revolution.

that would be my idea as well dexter moving wilder up to dof and bringing a younger manager in know bringing selles in backfired but i do believe we have to have a rethink next summer having said all that i do think wilder will keep us up

 

[Sean Thornton]

that would be my idea as well dexter moving wilder up to dof and bringing a younger manager in know bringing selles in backfired but i do believe we have to have a rethink next summer having said all that i do think wilder will keep us up

Why do you think Wilder could be a successful DOF? I’m not saying he couldn’t but what on his CV suggests it’s a natural move for him?

 

[The Crab]

Wasn't meaning to insult you. I didn't take your post as meaning you'd sack him.

I think it's fair to call it insane wanting a new manager sacked every few games if we dont do well. And one of the people replying just before is exactly like that. Apologies if you took it as an insult.

No apology needed, misunderstanding on my part. Thank you though

 

[The Crab]

I'd hardly call it 'insulting'. 1889 is correct 'most' fans are not in for sacking and sacking and sacking, Wilder was stupidly sacked and is picking up the pieces, 'most fans' would now stick - Wilder was left with a definite bad hand- last few matches we have played better. Let it play out and get behind him.

Lets hope a week on Sunday evening he's back on the table at the 'Cross'.

Beat them fuckers I might join you…

 

[dexter101]

Why do you think Wilder could be a successful DOF? I’m not saying he couldn’t but what on his CV suggests it’s a natural move for him?

Wilder seems to be involved in everything so to some extent, his multiple times at the club has included parts of being what I understand a DOF to be.

Giving him a role that gives the club a long term identity (bladeybladeness doesn't have to mean we don't keep being a club with Sheffield at its heart), bring longer term focus on the academy, recruitment etc. a first team coach then builds on that identity, with the first team in terms of how they play.

I am not saying he would be the best DOF we could have, however it feels like it would be a more stable approach to go down that route, where in a year or so, we could then appoint a new DOF to continue that journey forward. Our track record of starting from scratch in a new direction has been Slav and Selles, both because of financial support but also because it wasn't given time to bed in. by transitioning what we already do into a different format is more likely to be successful if our end goal is a more modern structure to the football club

 

[Sean Thornton]

Wilder seems to be involved in everything so to some extent, his multiple times at the club has included parts of being what I understand a DOF to be.

Giving him a role that gives the club a long term identity (bladeybladeness doesn't have to mean we don't keep being a club with Sheffield at its heart), bring longer term focus on the academy, recruitment etc. a first team coach then builds on that identity, with the first team in terms of how they play.

I am not saying he would be the best DOF we could have, however it feels like it would be a more stable approach to go down that route, where in a year or so, we could then appoint a new DOF to continue that journey forward. Our track record of starting from scratch in a new direction has been Slav and Selles, both because of financial support but also because it wasn't given time to bed in. by transitioning what we already do into a different format is more likely to be successful if our end goal is a more modern structure to the football club

His “involvement in everything” has seen more recent failures than successes. (Not all his fault obviously before a pile in).

It’s exactly bladeybladeness.

He’s currently manager with a squad both underperforming and underwhelming. Hopefully he will be backed in January. For the clubs sake as well as his own. Either way it could be in the last chance saloon. As things stand, the idea of promoting him upstairs really doesn’t make much sense.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Wilder seems to be involved in everything so to some extent, his multiple times at the club has included parts of being what I understand a DOF to be.

Giving him a role that gives the club a long term identity (bladeybladeness doesn't have to mean we don't keep being a club with Sheffield at its heart), bring longer term focus on the academy, recruitment etc. a first team coach then builds on that identity, with the first team in terms of how they play.

I am not saying he would be the best DOF we could have, however it feels like it would be a more stable approach to go down that route, where in a year or so, we could then appoint a new DOF to continue that journey forward. Our track record of starting from scratch in a new direction has been Slav and Selles, both because of financial support but also because it wasn't given time to bed in. by transitioning what we already do into a different format is more likely to be successful if our end goal is a more modern structure to the football club

I think a lot of that is what makes him not suitable as a DOF . It doesn't feel as though he can take that step back and big picture, calm head, long term view.

 

[Barry Butlin]

All I’m going to add is this.

If this had been any other manager, would results have been this tolerated? I genuinely don’t think they would.

I’ve said before and I’ll say it again. Wilder is one of the best, perhaps the best we’ve ever had. He turned us around, got us believing, going places.

That Wilder, sadly, isn’t this one. He’s no more the answer now than if we were to Bring back Warnock.

Who is the answer then?

 

[GymClassHero]

Those who are critical of Chris, why do you think that another manager would do better? Selles got 0 points, Wilder has got us 10 points with the same squad. Nobody can argue that the team at least has a bit of shape and organisation.

In a relegation fight, who would realistically do better with the tools at their disposal?

 

[dexter101]

I think a lot of that is what makes him not suitable as a DOF . It doesn't feel as though he can take that step back and big picture, calm head, long term view.

But is that because he is actually involved in everything and its, in effect, too big a job? Currently, it would be hard for him to be looking long term because he is focussed on the current squad and making sure we win in 9 days time.

Just to be clear, I am not saying this is the ideal scenario. But I think our club struggles with change. Like The Crab said, if it was anyone else, would they be getting as much time. I think the new owners will have been scared off making big changes now, because their last attempt was so poor.

If I was them, I would now plan out a longer term plan that restructures the club how it probably should be, but with out shocking the system. In effect, Wilder is our comfort blanket, we will have to let go of it at some point, but ripping it out of our hands, leaves a screaming child. slowly replacing it over time with a new shiny toy is probably the better way.

 

[loveWalrusDaveTheBlade]

I think a lot of that is what makes him not suitable as a DOF . It doesn't feel as though he can take that step back and big picture, calm head, long term view.

I think that you’ve just asked the key question regarding whether or not Wilder would be a potential candidate for DOF. It’s a difficult judgement call, in my opinion. He’s certainly been a short term, fingers in everything, emotionally charged character in his role as manager, but in some respects that is what is required of his current job, particularly given the hopeless dearth of supporting infrastructure that has been available to him during his tenure ( cause, or effect, I know…). Could he successfully adapt to a more senior role, and leave some of the day to day detail to a successor as his manager. All a matter of opinions, but I think that he probably could, particularly if he had been closely involved in selection of his successor in his current role, and has trust in him. I would echo Dexter101’s views that to change to a different senior leadership set-up requires gradual change from where we are, rather than a two footed leap of faith into the unknown, to improve prospects of success.

There are a number of characteristics in Wilder that I would like to see in a DOF for our club:

• he is vastly experienced in football management, in many different environments and circumstances.
• he is well respected in the game. Relationships with managers of top clubs have been crucial in securing the trust necessary to secure some superb loan moves for some key talents in the game. He can be a great ambassador for our club, working his network to secure opportunities for the club.
• he has a demonstrated track record in the development of a successful academy, the output of which continues to provide very substantial benefit to the club, both in terms of players and reputation.
• he has the capability to form strong bonds at Boardroom level. This might sound like a strange thing to say given that both the Prince and COH sacked him. It is, however true that in both cases they realised their mistake, swallowed their pride, and reappointed him.
• he can be a superb communicator, and I think he could link the Board to the fans in a way that the Board cannot do. He understands the ethos of our Club, he understands us as a fanbase, and he understands Sheffield. We have to move beyond our current parochialism of thinking, but it is equally important that we never forget our roots, or who or what we are. He can be an infectious motivator across all levels of our Club.

I think that these and other qualities make him a realistic candidate for DOF, assuming that the answer to your question is that yes, given a different remit, and the opportunity to hand his current role on to a trusted successor, he is able to get beyond short term, detailed thinking. Nobody knows, not even Wilder.

Any DOF appointment is a gamble. Internal candidates often struggle in senior recruitment drives, because their failings and weaknesses are there for all to see, unlike external candidates with a polished cv and less visible detailed history. Wilder is, however, somebody who has delivered significant success to our Club over the full period of his tenure, and we should think beyond the very obvious and immediate frustrations of our current predicament when considering him for a more senior role, alongside, hopefully, other external candidates in a properly planned and executed recruitment process. I’d like to see him as a key part of our hierarchy moving forward, somebody who understands our Club, and has its best interests at heart.

 

[The Crab]

Who is the answer then?

I’ll be honest in the current circumstances I really don’t know.

For what it’s worth I think he’s safe. Gut feeling is that a) we can’t afford to sack him and b) we couldn’t afford a decent replacement.

I’ve tried to be balanced in my criticism of Wilder, the bigger problem is higher up the chain, in my opinion

 

[Addison]

Why do you think Wilder could be a successful DOF? I’m not saying he couldn’t but what on his CV suggests it’s a natural move for him?

From Monchi to Murtough: rising power of football’s executive class

It’s time to celebrate the blossoming corporate culture of the sporting director but even soccer’s smartest guys cannot avoid scapegoating if transfers fail

www.theguardian.com

This article sets out what a Head of Football Operations is all about. Thats the descriptor that best sets out how effective someone in that role can be at a modern innovative football club. Michael Edwards at Liverpool or Begiristain at Man City are the benchmarks. CW would have to increase his skills significantly on the financial management side alone to even get anywhere near these two. However it can be done from a relatively low skill base position as Dougie Freedman proved provided you have a desire to learn and change. CW's inability to communicate in anything other than Bladey culturalism may be a stumbling block.

 

[Pedro Verde]

I dont think it would be a good idea for Wilder to become DOF at SUFC
Would you trust him on recruitment especially having wasted £10m on Cannon and not identifying a replacement for Souttar. Im assuming transfers would be part of the CV of a DOF
Hes stubborn and I think he would find it difficult working with a new manager / head coach

We need to move away from Wilder at some point (now isnt the time) Selles wasnt the answer unfortunately but Im sure there are numerous other managers out there that would be capable of doing a good job

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

For the geeks... how many points would we be on in May if we kept the same form going under CW?

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

For the geeks... how many points would we be on in May if we kept the same form going under CW?

Balham maybe my guy with the data

 

[Houston_Blade]

From Monchi to Murtough: rising power of football’s executive class

It’s time to celebrate the blossoming corporate culture of the sporting director but even soccer’s smartest guys cannot avoid scapegoating if transfers fail

www.theguardian.com

This article sets out what a Head of Football Operations is all about. Thats the descriptor that best sets out how effective someone in that role can be at a modern innovative football club. Michael Edwards at Liverpool or Begiristain at Man City are the benchmarks. CW would have to increase his skills significantly on the financial management side alone to even get anywhere near these two. However it can be done from a relatively low skill base position as Dougie Freedman proved provided you have a desire to learn and change. CW's inability to communicate in anything other than Bladey culturalism may be a stumbling block.

I think criticism of Wilder’s financial sense is harsh. He managed to get an improved contract for himself every time we won 2 games on the bounce and reportedly walked away with multiple £m’s when he threw the towel in first time around. Sounds like he’s got his head screwed on to me.

Just ignore the signings of Freeman, Cannon, Brewster and C Robinson and it’s all peachy.

 

[FriethBlade]

I'd hardly call it 'insulting'. 1889 is correct 'most' fans are not in for sacking and sacking and sacking, Wilder was stupidly sacked and is picking up the pieces, 'most fans' would now stick - Wilder was left with a definite bad hand- last few matches we have played better. Let it play out and get behind him.

Lets hope a week on Sunday evening he's back on the table at the 'Cross'.

"Most fans are not in for sacking and sacking and sacking"....unless the manager's foreign of course and wants to change our style of football.

Not saying Selles shouldn't have been sacked as he was a disaster but there is absolutely no doubt that he and Slav got no real time to try and change our style of football...and actually no real backing as the squad Wilder is belittling is the one Selles had to work with.

 

[loveWalrusDaveTheBlade]

From Monchi to Murtough: rising power of football’s executive class

It’s time to celebrate the blossoming corporate culture of the sporting director but even soccer’s smartest guys cannot avoid scapegoating if transfers fail

www.theguardian.com

This article sets out what a Head of Football Operations is all about. Thats the descriptor that best sets out how effective someone in that role can be at a modern innovative football club. Michael Edwards at Liverpool or Begiristain at Man City are the benchmarks. CW would have to increase his skills significantly on the financial management side alone to even get anywhere near these two. However it can be done from a relatively low skill base position as Dougie Freedman proved provided you have a desire to learn and change. CW's inability to communicate in anything other than Bladey culturalism may be a stumbling block.

If you’re setting Michael Edward’s at Liverpool as the benchmark standard for the role, then best to prepare for at least a decade of disappointment. We are not in their league, literally or metaphorically, and need to set a realistic expectation for our next step, rather than indulging in pipe dreams.

 

[1066blade]

For the geeks... how many points would we be on in May if we kept the same form going under CW?

C'mon Carlton, bread and butter for you this stuff.

 

[ekke287]

For the geeks... how many points would we be on in May if we kept the same form going under CW?

Taking Selles out of it, we’ve gained 10 points from 9 games. That’s an an average of 1.1 per game.

31 games left at that rate equals 38.5 points, so we’d finish on 48.5 points based on Wilders form.