Outgoing? Chris Wilder

[NerdyBlade]

He's a good manager. He had a good season and got close to promotion. He also showed some of his shortcomings and I'm pretty convinced he's not the man to manage a team with Premier League ambitions.

He's succeeded with us and recently that's it

If he isn't the man then why keep him now?

 

[Aston max]

I thought it was 1 payment of £35m

Parachute payments are made for up to three seasons after a team is relegated.

 

[dc_blade]

He's succeeded with us and recently that's it

If he isn't the man then why keep him now?

I don't understand your question.

 

[paidsy]

Seems very strange that you are saying if he holds onto his job he should be backed and everyone needs to move on when you were literally on every match day thread ready to pounce soon as a goal went in to say he needs sacking, like every week you were wanting him gone from his job.

Good to see you now think that is the wrong approach and everyone including you needs to move on and back him fully if he remains in the job

I still want him gone, I think the time to get rid of him was before the play offs, whether that would have changed anything who knows.

The new mob have had plenty of time now to watch the football, work closely with Wilder and make a decision. If they decide to keep him around and back him, then it's entirely on them for any failure in the upcoming season, I don't think that's a controversial take on things?

After the final I hope, maybe incredibly incorrectly, that there may be a change of approach from the management team. We will see if that is the case or not.

Regardless, if you start the season with him there's absolutely no benefit to anyone in making any change pre January really, if at all.

 

[NerdyBlade]

I don't understand your question.

You said he isn't the man for the prem

So if that's the aim, why keep him now? I'm not saying I want him gone - but if he isn't the guy that can keep us up why don't we find someone that can?

 

[dc_blade]

You said he isn't the man for the prem

So if that's the aim, why keep him now? I'm not saying I want him gone - but if he isn't the guy that can keep us up why don't we find someone that can?

I think we should change manger, as I said in the post to which you responded.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Parachute payments are made for up to three seasons after a team is relegated.

Not if you get relegated in the first season.

This is our last season of parachute money. We got 3 years last time because we stayed up for 2 seasons.

 

[HarryHaslam]

I still want him gone, I think the time to get rid of him was before the play offs, whether that would have changed anything who knows.

The new mob have had plenty of time now to watch the football, work closely with Wilder and make a decision. If they decide to keep him around and back him, then it's entirely on them for any failure in the upcoming season, I don't think that's a controversial take on things?

After the final I hope, maybe incredibly incorrectly, that there may be a change of approach from the management team. We will see if that is the case or not.

Regardless, if you start the season with him there's absolutely no benefit to anyone in making any change pre January really, if at all.

Oh I know you want him gone you made that perfectly clear every single week but it’s all about opinions so you’re entitled to them as much as I am. It is good to hear your prepared to back him if he keeps his job though

 

[Selly]

I also think that making this decision (whichever way they go but particularly if they sack him) in mid-June is really poor.

Agree with this - literally all it has going for it from a timing perspective is its better than Mid-July or Mid-Aug

 

[paidsy]

Oh I know you want him gone you made that perfectly clear every single week but it’s all about opinions so you’re entitled to them as much as I am. It is good to hear your prepared to back him if he keeps his job though

You'll not see anything from me about giving him the boot until the new year if he stays. I also don't think we need to be in the top 6 when January comes around for him to keep his job either, just be in the hunt.

Let's see what the decision is and what the backing looks like now.

I am also sympathetic to trying out some of the data driven signings. But if all we sign is a bunch of randoms with long surnames that further moves liability to the ones above the manager.

 

[NerdyBlade]

I think we should change manger, as I said in the post to which you responded.

No no I'm not arguing with you about that - it's a subjective thing and I understand arguments for both sides

I'm just trying to understand the argument of he's good enough for now but not if we go up - if that's the case why keep him

 

[The Bohemian]

This wreaks of clueless owners who really don’t know what they don’t know. Who may have done ok in unrelated businesses and think football ‘is just another business.’ It isn’t. Of course data is important and more available than ever before. It should add to human experience and intuition gained over decades, not replace it.

Wilder has to be open-minded to embedding tech into his recruitment and coaching. It’s in his best interests to do so. That doesn’t mean it’s right to foist players on him, not of his choosing, and then judge him on their performance. Even worse, try to impose team selection decisions on him based on data. No top manager with a spine would accept this and, in Sheffield United terms, Wilder is a top manager.

I agree last season wasn’t always the easiest watch but those with a memory will recall he wasn’t dealt the easiest hand in preparing for the season given the long running ownership saga. He rebuilt a team in very little time that just failed to get up. Improving on that next season will be incredibly difficult.

Wilder has proven he knows what it takes to win promotion to the big league. Our owners have everything to prove in respect of their competency in running a football club.

 

[Blade56]

Parachute payments are made for up to three seasons after a team is relegated.

In my head we’d been down two seasons, said it was a long season

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

This wreaks of clueless owners who really don’t know what they don’t know. Who may have done ok in unrelated businesses and think football ‘is just another business.’ It isn’t. Of course data is important and more available than ever before. It should add to human experience and intuition gained over decades, not replace it.

Wilder has to be open-minded to embedding tech into his recruitment and coaching. It’s in his best interests to do so. That doesn’t mean it’s right to foist players on him, not of his choosing, and then judge him on their performance. Even worse, try to impose team selection decisions on him based on data. No top manager with a spine would accept this and, in Sheffield United terms, Wilder is a top manager.

I agree last season wasn’t always the easiest watch but those with a memory will recall he wasn’t dealt the easiest hand in preparing for the season given the long running ownership saga. He rebuilt a team in very little time that just failed to get up. Improving on that next season will be incredibly difficult.

Wilder has proven he knows what it takes to win promotion to the big league. Our owners have everything to prove in respect of their competency in running a football club.

Fantastic post. Sums up my feelings perfectly

 

[jt64]

Regardless of your views on CW's performance last season, I think it's quite hard to make a strong case that replacing him now as we enter our final season with a big chunk of parachute payments is the most likely way of achieving promotion. I think we should probably be leaning more towards short-term thinking now and then moving to a more medium-term view if we don't get promoted.

It would need something unexpected to happen for this season not to be our best chance of promotion in the next decade and I'd rather go tried and tested in that scenario.

I also think that making this decision (whichever way they go but particularly if they sack him) in mid-June is really poor.

So what decisions would you make differently by going "more towards short-term thinking" as opposed to a longer term plan?

 

[Thrice]

Parachute payments are made for up to three seasons after a team is relegated.

Third year is considerably less though, isn't it?

 

[Selly]

So what decisions would you make differently by going "more towards short-term thinking" as opposed to a longer term plan?

For me short term thinking would be keeping Wilder. Or at the least appointing someone who will keep the core of players we have and not seek to rip the whole thing up and start again.

I can think of a few occasions with utd where we have appointed a manager who wanted to change the whole way of playing, it didn`t work quickly in many situations

Basset>Kendall
Heath>Warnock
Warnock>Robson
Wilson>Weir
Wilder/Heck>Slav

Thats not to say in all cases it was working before we made a change of course.

 

[Balham]

2 more years of parachute

Parachute payments are made for up to three seasons after a team is relegated.

Third year is considerably less though, isn't it?

It's fairly simple:

Get relegated in your first PL season (of any stint): 2 years' parachute payments of 55% and 45% of the PL's central distribution (which is just under £100m)

Stay up for that first season and then get relegated: 3 years' parachute payments; the first two the same as above but the third is 20%.

Parachute payments due to any side promoted in that 2- or 3-year period are folded back into the PL's central distribution pot.

Live example:
United relegated in 20/21 after two years in the top flight: we received approx £44m in 2021/22 and £34m in 2022/23. As we were promoted in 2023, we did not receive the final £17m.

United relegated in 23/25 after one year in the top flight: we received approx £48m last season and will receive about £36m next season. We won't get anything in 2026/27.

 

[Chezzy Blades]

Third year is considerably less though, isn't it?

Think it's 45% of lost revenue year one, 40% year two and 20% year three.

 

[chesblade]

If the board are split over him being here, then it's hardly solid backing for him whatever the result from today.

I know but it doesn't mean he's gone already like some are saying

 

[jt64]

For me short term thinking would be keeping Wilder. Or at the least appointing someone who will keep the core of players we have and not seek to rip the whole thing up and start again.

I would have thought whoever is the first team coach would not have the authority to do that, as it wouldn't be their job to do so, so whether you keep or sack Wilder, this makes no difference to short/long term planning choices?

 

[jt64]

Third year is considerably less though, isn't it?

For us it is, yes, as stated above you only get two years if you promote then go straight back down

 

[Frank the tank]

Parachute payments are made for up to three seasons after a team is relegated.

Not true ,that's only if you do more than one season

 

[Aston max]

Not true ,that's only if you do more than one season

Seen that mate

 

[Silent Blade]

Think it's 45% of lost revenue year one, 40% year two and 20% year three.

That is for teams who were in the PL for more than one in successive seasons.

 

[Silent Blade]

Third year is considerably less though, isn't it?

Zero for us

 

[NerdyBlade]

Why the fuck are eejits on Twitter pitching Dyche?

 

[Hollinsend]

Parachute payments are made for up to three seasons after a team is relegated.

I thought you didn't get year 3 if you only stay up for one season, but may have misunderstood that.

 

[DronnieBlade]

This wreaks of clueless owners who really don’t know what they don’t know. Who may have done ok in unrelated businesses and think football ‘is just another business.’ It isn’t. Of course data is important and more available than ever before. It should add to human experience and intuition gained over decades, not replace it.

Wilder has to be open-minded to embedding tech into his recruitment and coaching. It’s in his best interests to do so. That doesn’t mean it’s right to foist players on him, not of his choosing, and then judge him on their performance. Even worse, try to impose team selection decisions on him based on data. No top manager with a spine would accept this and, in Sheffield United terms, Wilder is a top manager.

I agree last season wasn’t always the easiest watch but those with a memory will recall he wasn’t dealt the easiest hand in preparing for the season given the long running ownership saga. He rebuilt a team in very little time that just failed to get up. Improving on that next season will be incredibly difficult.

Wilder has proven he knows what it takes to win promotion to the big league. Our owners have everything to prove in respect of their competency in running a football club.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



UTB

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

This wreaks of clueless owners who really don’t know what they don’t know. Who may have done ok in unrelated businesses and think football ‘is just another business.’ It isn’t. Of course data is important and more available than ever before. It should add to human experience and intuition gained over decades, not replace it.

Wilder has to be open-minded to embedding tech into his recruitment and coaching. It’s in his best interests to do so. That doesn’t mean it’s right to foist players on him, not of his choosing, and then judge him on their performance. Even worse, try to impose team selection decisions on him based on data. No top manager with a spine would accept this and, in Sheffield United terms, Wilder is a top manager.

I agree last season wasn’t always the easiest watch but those with a memory will recall he wasn’t dealt the easiest hand in preparing for the season given the long running ownership saga. He rebuilt a team in very little time that just failed to get up. Improving on that next season will be incredibly difficult.

Wilder has proven he knows what it takes to win promotion to the big league. Our owners have everything to prove in respect of their competency in running a football club.

Nothing these AI guys have said or done has given me any confidence, there appear to be too many of them involved to ensure unity of vision, and given the way they seem to want to operate, we're entering a high risk period and have a longer way to fall than we otherwise might...... from a current position where simply doing what is obvious would basically guarantee another top 4 finish and a great chance of promotion