Is it time...

[Houso]

Doyle has been at this club for nearly four years, Flynn nearly three.

How long should we give players before they start showing their true worth?

Evidently longer than some of us did.

 

[Darren]

Doyle has been at this club for nearly four years, Flynn nearly three.

How long should we give players before they start showing their true worth?

Doyle made his debut in Feb 2011, so he has actually been here for just over 3 years.

Pedant? Me?

 

[sheffielder]

Evidently longer than some of us did.

So you're saying 9 games is enough to paper over the last 3 years. What happens if the wheels fall off and these players revert to type? Who is left to reverse the bus back into the garage?

 

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

Houso i'm with you on the original post and shared every sentiment, I don't mind being proved wrong. At least I was right about Marlon King though

 

[Grecian2000]

At least I was right about Marlon King though

Are you sure? I reckon he's due a reight spell in the 15/16 season.

 

[Houso]

So you're saying 9 games is enough to paper over the last 3 years. What happens if the wheels fall off and these players revert to type? Who is left to reverse the bus back into the garage?

I understand what you're saying, but surely they're again due a little leeway considering the problems over the last three years. The majority of the players mentioned have now been excellent for a very long stretch of games after being played right and in a team full of confidence.

It's when players continue to be awful in a well performing side that we can get jittery.

Again, I've never once suggested that players are above criticism, but just that sometimes they should be given time to settle or get an extended run in a form side. You've said the same about Cuvelier have you not?

Look at it this way. Gareth Bale was fucking awful when he first signed for Spurs. The team was losing whenever he was put in the side and Forest came very close to signing him for a few million. In fact, for a full season he was behind Benoit Essou Ekoto after a shit run of performances.Put him in a team with a winning mentality and in a different position and he's suddenly the most expensive player on the planet.

I suppose I'm just saying that a little pragmatism doesn't hurt over a taking a player's performances in isolation.

 

[JohnDenver]

I understand what you're saying, but surely they're again due a little leeway considering the problems over the last three years. The majority of the players mentioned have now been excellent for a very long stretch of games after being played right and in a team full of confidence.

It's when players continue to be awful in a well performing side that we can get jittery.

Again, I've never once suggested that players are above criticism, but just that sometimes they should be given time to settle or get an extended run in a form side. You've said the same about Cuvelier have you not?

Look at it this way. Gareth Bale was fucking awful when he first signed for Spurs. The team was losing whenever he was put in the side and Forest came very close to signing him for a few million. In fact, for a full season he was behind Benoit Essou Ekoto after a shit run of performances.Put him in a team with a winning mentality and in a different position and he's suddenly the most expensive player on the planet.

I suppose I'm just saying that a little pragmatism doesn't hurt over a taking a player's performances in isolation.

Where do you stand on Gary Sinclair? Can I still boo him?

 

[raul]

Where do you stand on Gary Sinclair?

His swingers judging by the pitch he reached on Sunday at the thought of all those unsold Tom hark megamix cd's still in the loft suddenly having a market again.

 

[Houso]

Where do you stand on Gary Sinclair? Can I still boo him?

He's now involved in a form side so we'll give him touch longer.

 

[Balham]

I'm of the same opinion as Houso in that I've slated Doyle and Collins over the past two seasons but am happy that they're proving me wrong now.

The subtle differences in Clough's tactics and clever signings have brought about a remarkable change in both players:

Doyle
Under Wilson (2nd season) and Weir, Doyle was played as an orthodox, box-to-box central midfielder. He's not quick enough to do that and it impacted on his games, hence him picking up yellow cards for late tackles, misplacing passes and generally getting caught out. I don't think anyone has ever doubted that he's a decent defensive midfielder but it's taken the appointment of Clough to play him in that position. Key to the upturn in Doyle's form has been the signing of Scougall - a player who plays the attacking central midfield role extremely well, removing the need for Doyle to cover the gap between the centre circle and the opposition penalty area. Doyle's role is now the search and destroy he does so well and Coady, Murphy, Flynn, Scougall and Baxter are all clever enough footballers to find enough space to give Doyle a 10 yard pass.

Collins
Collins needs a vocal goalkeeper behind him. Much of my criticism of him has been his panicked clearances - headers to the opposition, shanked hoofs into touch or behind for a corner. Having Howard behind him has let him play 5 yards further out and know what's going on outside his field of vision. Again, like Doyle, being able to concentrate on the strengths of his game has made a huge difference.
I also don't think you can underestimate just how important swapping Hill and McMahon for Harris and Brayford has been. Those two signings (along with Scougall) have transformed our season - full backs who can defend and attack and, crucially, know when to get forward and when to sit.

UTB

 

[wizadry]

At the end of the day the change in formation and keeper has turned round most peoples season after the Crewe game.

Collins (keeper) and Doyle (formation) have seen the most spectacular turnaround.in fortunes, however while we all seem to want to carry Doyle over our shoulders like Bobby Moore let us not forget players like Harris and Coady who have gone up another level. They are all playing like champions at the moment and i think Doyle's obvious change in demeanour is helping greatly.

How long has collins played in net