Greenwich Blade
Hitch-Hike General
The thing is, I don't think there is a definitive answer as such. It has been a most enlightening thread though.I'm amazed that no-one has a definitive answer. Maybe someone like John Garratt would know?
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The thing is, I don't think there is a definitive answer as such. It has been a most enlightening thread though.I'm amazed that no-one has a definitive answer. Maybe someone like John Garratt would know?
For me the definitive answer would be when was the first time signs were put above the turnstiles saying "Home/visiting supporters only". I'd guess it was circa 1977.The thing is, I don't think there is a definitive answer as such. It has been a most enlightening thread though.
Quite a lot of truth in what you say. But the original segregation was achieved by fences, to stop people going onto the pitch or moving to different parts of the ground in search of a fight. It was only after the Hillsborough disaster that it became clear to everyone that the pens created death traps, so that all-seater stadiums were the next attempt to solve the problem of crowd violence. If people had behaved themselves, we could still be standing at football matches and mingling freely with each other. It is beyond my comprehension why we don’t all want that.The younger male home fans would always congregate in the cheapest standing area which gave a decent view , which tended to be behind one of the goals ... often termed a Kop , which by its very nature was a hill to defend against all comers.
No such thing as strict segregation until you remove the ability to pay on the turnstile.
Which occasionally happened in the old days at "all-ticket" matches ... But then you had to control who bought the tickets , which was nowhere near foolproof.
Once all-seater stadia came after 1989 , the club's/police had an easier job , because mass movement on the terraces disappeared overnight - Taylor said his report was into 'Safety' but really it was football's golden opportunity to move out of the working class into the middle class.
It was blatant social engineering - the prices went up , the players wages went up , TV & Italia 90 made it a popular thing to do for so-called "decent" people - the hooligan scum were quite literally priced-out and even if they could afford to attend , the lack of terracing stopped their antics.
So it was sanitised into something it never was - one of many entertainment options for the middle class , instead of an habitual allegiance for a manual labour working class which exists no more in the steelworks , mines , shipyards , car-factories , cutlery factories , engineering shops of our country which now manufactures next to nowt.
And has left cities & towns in the North & Midlands to stagnate.
Look at the 92 + see where the London & SouthEastern clubs are - then fetch out a set of league tables from the 60s.
See where Brighton , Bournemouth & Brentford were , just for starters.
Follow the money and that will always tell you the story.
I suspect the post-war era, 1945 - 65, was an exception, in that football grounds were basically peaceful places (except for on the pitch).In some of the history books about the Blades, I remember reading of trouble kicking off at a match between a City XI and a Derbyshire XI (from Norton, Greenhill area) and that was in the 1870s.
I also remember reading that Blackburn fans trashed the trains taking them to London in the 1890s.
Thank God Bradford's main stand didn't have fences in 1985.Quite a lot of truth in what you say. But the original segregation was achieved by fences, to stop people going onto the pitch or moving to different parts of the ground in search of a fight. It was only after the Hillsborough disaster that it became clear to everyone that the pens created death traps, so that all-seater stadiums were the next attempt to solve the problem of crowd violence. If people had behaved themselves, we could still be standing at football matches and mingling freely with each other. It is beyond my comprehension why we don’t all want that.
As a footnote, I went to watch Hallam v Brigg Town the other day. Crowd of almost 1200. Lots of drinking, lots of singing, the Brigg fans moved ends at half-time and continued with their boisterous and humorous support. There was no problem. It can be done.
In the early 70s when we beat Ipswich 7-0, we crossed the pavilion at half time to change ends IIRCMillwall had crowd trouble in the 1930s.
Some spectators at Bramall Lane regularly changed ends by walking through the Pavilion end but SUFC stopped that during either the 1962/63 or 1963/64 season (HodgysBrokenThumb will know) because there were a bit of fighting when fans from both teams were crossing each other
I’d say 1966/67 season. There was no attempt to control which part of the ground away fans went.I was wondering when ‘trouble’ started at the football. When I see really old pictures from the 30s and 40s with all the old boys in flat caps I always wonder if it used to kick off? And if not, when did that begin and why/how? Perhaps it happened a few times and then became a bit of a craze that hasn’t ever really died out. Anyone know?
I always though he was a rocker ( greaser), therefore unlikely to wear a Parka. And I’m always right. So……He used to wear a Parka, furry hud, Eskimo style.
Thats about right. Probably did follow the mod/rocker thing. Where’s Gary Armstrong when you need him ?Great story !
I'm fairly sure it crept in during the 60s.
If I had to guess , I would say it followed the "tribal" era of mods & rockers.
The famous battle of Brighton beach was1964.
We won the World Cup in 1966.
The simmering teenage rebellion mushroomed and violence between factions was just one expression of it.
It's strange , I would never condone wanton gratuitous violence and yet I do get the adolescent frustration felt + why it happens.
The Who are my all time favourite rock-band (out of the many dozens which i love) ... Probably because of the amount of emotions including frustration & anger , which is in their music.
Got some « shoe » at Pigsboro around 1967/8 and a proper doing over at Middlesborough, 1970, we took their end they wanted it back. Learned to avoid after that. Looking back probably gave me PTSD , hyper vigilant etc. Felt like a normal state of affairs back in those daysGot my one and only pasting from Leeds fans as a teenager attending a game on my own for the first time back in the 70's as I entered the Shoreham.![]()
I don’t think it can be done when there is a minority who only want to cause upset and a further group who are under the influence of drugs.Quite a lot of truth in what you say. But the original segregation was achieved by fences, to stop people going onto the pitch or moving to different parts of the ground in search of a fight. It was only after the Hillsborough disaster that it became clear to everyone that the pens created death traps, so that all-seater stadiums were the next attempt to solve the problem of crowd violence. If people had behaved themselves, we could still be standing at football matches and mingling freely with each other. It is beyond my comprehension why we don’t all want that.
As a footnote, I went to watch Hallam v Brigg Town the other day. Crowd of almost 1200. Lots of drinking, lots of singing, the Brigg fans moved ends at half-time and continued with their boisterous and humorous support. There was no problem. It can be done.
There were only a few away fans and neutrals in the 1940s apart from cup games which were well attended by keen supporters making no secret of their allegienceWay before then surely but what is meant by strict segregation?
Pretty certain in my first season 78/79 away fans were nowhere in the ground apart from the Bramall Lane end lower.
There were only a few away fans and neutrals in the 1940s apart from cup games which were well attended by keen supporters making no secret of their allegienceWay before then surely but what is meant by strict segregation?
Pretty certain in my first season 78/79 away fans were nowhere in the ground apart from the Bramall Lane end lower.
Hard to believe it was 40yes ago. We were on holiday in Majorca, borrowed a TV which we set up in pool bar to watch the game only to see some 30 odd poor soles perish. Worst of football, had to get wives to take kids from bar.We had Heysal in 85 where Liverpool fans antics killed Italians and got all English clubs banned from Europe
I went to BDTBL with my dad’s Wolves mate and we all went in the BLLT with no segregation. Must have been mid to late 70s.I used to occasionally go on the Lane end terrace with my Dad.I remember being on there for the Hull game when they kicked us off the park promotion season and there were a fair few Hull fans stood near us but no trouble.
I remember a mob of our lot on JSWT in mid 70's,as it was the closest to the away fans.
So i reckon around '74 it became away fans only.
I haven't heard the EDS Pen referred to as the pig pen for many a decade! You got a great view of all the feytin' from there, wherever it kicked off in the ground. And of course, the football was so crap between 1976 and 1981, the aggro was often the one thing we all wanted to talk about at school come Monday morning.I'm sure in late 70's while stood witness in the pig pen at the bottom of kop, there was a group of Blades on the away end on occasion who'd wait a good 10 or 15 minutes before kicking off with visiting fans and the 'Shorham Agro' song would go up from the kop.
Can’t beat a good pasting to make you feel like a proper fan. Mine was at M’boro, and I’m forever beholding to them, and for the ptsd afterwards.Got my one and only pasting from Leeds fans as a teenager attending a game on my own for the first time back in the 70's as I entered the Shoreham.![]()
i suspect that was ayresome park april 71 in our promotion season i was there united fans were massed on boro's end and wondering where there fans were we found out at 2.45 when thousands of em surged at us very nervy afternoon that wasCan’t beat a good pasting to make you feel like a proper fan. Mine was at M’boro, and I’m forever beholding to them, and for the ptsd afterwards.
The LEEDS game was probably 1974. We played them at Elland Road on Easter Monday and at Bramall Lane on Easter Tuesday. Unique fixtures then.Can’t beat a good pasting to make you feel like a proper fan. Mine was at M’boro, and I’m forever beholding to them, and for the ptsd afterwards.
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