Outgoing? Chris Wilder

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If we are looking to achieve Premier league football anytime soon then we have to build a side that has a chance of survival. That means accepting we will not be having a lot of possession so we need to build a team that can counterattack. This needs a reliable defence and pace and athleticism and taking chances in midfield and upfront.
This season has seen the antithesis of what we need in the premier league, it has been decent defence wise until we lost Soutter, then pedestrian and mistake ridden. The midfield has been slow and pedestrian generally, and the attack has not been close to clinical and precise.
To continue with the same style next season is basically preparing to fail in the event we get promoted.
If we have any real ambitions to make a fist of staying in the Premier League, the we need a complete change in the style of play, The question is, is Wilder the man who can implement it?
 
ChezVegasBlade said:
If we are looking to achieve Premier league football anytime soon then we have to build a side that has a chance of survival. That means accepting we will not be having a lot of possession so we need to build a team that can counterattack. This needs a reliable defence and pace and athleticism and taking chances in midfield and upfront.
This season has seen the antithesis of what we need in the premier league, it has been decent defence wise until we lost Soutter, then pedestrian and mistake ridden. The midfield has been slow and pedestrian generally, and the attack has not been close to clinical and precise.
To continue with the same style next season is basically preparing to fail in the event we get promoted.
If we have any real ambitions to make a fist of staying in the Premier League, the we need a complete change in the style of play, The question is, is Wilder the man who can implement it?
Click to expand...
It's tricky. In order to go up you need to build a side who can dominate the ball and break teams down. In order to stay up we need to, as you say, build a team with different facets.

You need a base of players who can do both. The best probably way to do that is to have a great defence (because those players are generally cheaper and more available to a team in the Championship). And then you probably need to do a Forest and roll the dice. Buy a whole new team. That's why loans are quite good as you can loan your attacking players in the Championship. Burnley did it pretty well. Whether they can build a team to stay up though is unlikely I reckon you'd probably need £200-£300 million in transfer fees, loan fees, agent fees and wages to have a shot at it. And even then you'd need almost every transfer to work to a degree.

The other option in the champ is to sign experience/talent on a free (Gunn, Dunne, Darling, Mepham, Dolan, Poku) and then loan 5 good players. But, at the same time, bring in young talent from around the world and use the season to integrate them into the system/English football. Hoping that they'll be able to step up after promotion.

But we need a long term strategy though and I'm yet to really see one from Wilder. In fairness to him, a manager's job depends on results so you can see why he would concentrate on the short-term. In fairness to Hecky, he wasn't.
 
robbiez666 said:
It's tricky. In order to go up you need to build a side who can dominate the ball and break teams down. In order to stay up we need to, as you say, build a team with different facets.

You need a base of players who can do both. The best probably way to do that is to have a great defence (because those players are generally cheaper and more available to a team in the Championship). And then you probably need to do a Forest and roll the dice. Buy a whole new team. That's why loans are quite good as you can loan your attacking players in the Championship. Burnley did it pretty well. Whether they can build a team to stay up though is unlikely I reckon you'd probably need £200-£300 million in transfer fees, loan fees, agent fees and wages to have a shot at it. And even then you'd need almost every transfer to work to a degree.

The other option in the champ is to sign experience/talent on a free (Gunn, Dunne, Darling, Mepham, Dolan, Poku) and then loan 5 good players. But, at the same time, bring in young talent from around the world and use the season to integrate them into the system/English football. Hoping that they'll be able to step up after promotion.

But we need a long term strategy though and I'm yet to really see one from Wilder. In fairness to him, a manager's job depends on results so you can see why he would concentrate on the short-term. In fairness to Hecky, he wasn't.
Click to expand...
In order to stay up you need athletes who can last 90 minutes and have pace. The Premier League is all about pace now, not slow patient build ups. It's pace in attack and discipline and closing down space quickly out of possession while they recover ready for the next quick attack. Most midfielders and strikers have to be two way players now and be able to perform both roles.

You need an Ollie Watkins type striker up top, not a Kiefer Moore.
 

It's madness when you look back at the Sunderland game really.

We started the match with a central midfielder at right back, a central midfielder on the left wing and a striker on the right wing. In the second half we subbed the striker on the wing for a winger and subbed a striker for a central midfielder who was pushed further up top almost as a make shift striker. Our central midfielder on the left wing got injured so we replaced him with a striker. After that the striker on the left wing got injured so we replaced him with a striker, pushed him up top and moved the central midfielder back into midfield. Later on we lost a centre back to injury so we replaced him with a right back.

I explained this to a mate and he looked at me like I was making it up.

1000003728.webp
 
Tony_Kaufman said:
It's madness when you look back at the Sunderland game really.

We started the match with a central midfielder at right back, a central midfielder on the left wing and a striker on the right wing. In the second half we subbed the striker on the wing for a winger and subbed a striker for a central midfielder who was pushed further up top almost as a make shift striker. Our central midfielder on the left wing got injured so we replaced him with a striker. After that the striker on the left wing got injured so we replaced him with a striker, pushed him up top and moved the central midfielder back into midfield. Later on we lost a centre back to injury so we replaced him with a right back.

I explained this to a mate and he looked at me like I was making it up.

View attachment 212374
Click to expand...
Post of the year. Have to laugh until you realise it actually happened :oops:
 
HeCanDoMagic said:
I don't even know which side of the fence I'm on, so I ask these questions genuinely:

What has CWs first period have to do with the present?
When given money to spend, are you happy with what CW has done with it?
Click to expand...
First period ended with him trousering £4m after walking out due to a mental breakdown.
Whatever the merits , that part was finished over 4 years ago.

When given money ?
Brewster instead of a replacement for JoC
Cannon instead of a replacement for Souttar
McBurnie for the PL
Mousset for the kebab shop
?
 
Tony_Kaufman said:
It's madness when you look back at the Sunderland game really.

We started the match with a central midfielder at right back, a central midfielder on the left wing and a striker on the right wing. In the second half we subbed the striker on the wing for a winger and subbed a striker for a central midfielder who was pushed further up top almost as a make shift striker. Our central midfielder on the left wing got injured so we replaced him with a striker. After that the striker on the left wing got injured so we replaced him with a striker, pushed him up top and moved the central midfielder back into midfield. Later on we lost a centre back to injury so we replaced him with a right back.

I explained this to a mate and he looked at me like I was making it up.

View attachment 212374
Click to expand...
Or you could say that the players you mentioned can play in more than one position?

For instance Hamer has played all season at LM. Brewster has played most of the season in midfield. O hare has played most of the season just behind the striker.

All of a sudden it doesn't sound as mad.
 
Keen Blade said:
First period ended with him trousering £4m after walking out due to a mental breakdown.
Whatever the merits , that part was finished over 4 years ago.

When given money ?
Brewster instead of a replacement for JoC
Cannon instead of a replacement for Souttar
McBurnie for the PL
Mousset for the kebab shop
?
Click to expand...
The Brewster instead of a replacement for JOC is an interesting one. Because JOC started the first game of the season Vs Wolves. It was only after this that the club realised he wasn't going to be right.

Also Brewster was going to be a loan but the negotiations turned into a transfer. It's as much Bettis, Prince as it is Wilder for that decision.

Moussett was cracking for a bit in PL. Despite his fitness.
 
Keen Blade said:
First period ended with him trousering £4m after walking out due to a mental breakdown.
Whatever the merits , that part was finished over 4 years ago.

When given money ?
Brewster instead of a replacement for JoC
Cannon instead of a replacement for Souttar
McBurnie for the PL
Mousset for the kebab shop
?
Click to expand...
First paragraph isn't true and a bit slanderous
 
Frank the tank said:
First paragraph isn't true and a bit slanderous
Click to expand...
I doubt the truth will ever be know but it was a bizarre series of events from which each can make his own interpretation and also listen & read between the lines of what's been said & written since.
Anyway , as indicated , it's over 4 years ago and totally done & dusted.

He was thanked & rewarded for 2016-2020.
When Hecky took over an-already-relegated club in early 2021 , everything re-set at the famously bizarre presser that Autumn.

In my opinion , it's irrelevant to give Wilder credit for his first incarnation when weighing up whether he should stay in his second version.
 

CPB said:
Or you could say that the players you mentioned can play in more than one position?

For instance Hamer has played all season at LM. Brewster has played most of the season in midfield. O hare has played most of the season just behind the striker.

All of a sudden it doesn't sound as mad.
Click to expand...

It was all always mad.
 
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