The disallowed 'goal'

[PotterLog]

The law says though that it is only penalised if it clearly prevents the player from playing the ball. Given that Patterson could see the ball when it was struck and actually dived towards the ball that he had no chance of getting, I'd say it didn't.

Therefore even with Vini stepping across him it could easily have been given within the laws. It's not cut and dried, it is a subjective decision.

Again, I think that's a slight misreading, or possibly bad wording - I don't think it means that in some circumstances you can obstruct the opponent's line of vision but not affect their ability to play the ball. I think it's saying that the obstructing of the line of vision is the thing that intrinsically prevents the opponent being able to play the ball (always).

Either way, in practice if a player is standing virtually on the keeper's toes, temporarily blocking his view as a shot is coming in, you've got a hard task arguing he wasn't involved in play.

 

[Bladepicker]

Again, I think that's a slight misreading, or possibly bad wording - I don't think it means that in some circumstances you can obstruct the opponent's line of vision but not affect their ability to play the ball. I think it's saying that the obstructing of the line of vision is the thing that intrinsically prevents the opponent being able to play the ball (always).

Either way, in practice if a player is standing virtually on the keeper's toes, temporarily blocking his view as a shot is coming in, you've got a hard task arguing he wasn't involved in play.

That's not true. You can be in the line of vision at a given time and not affect the players ability to play the ball. If the keeper has absolutely no chance of getting to the shot the it's a goal.

Extreme example but if the keeper is well out of position after a deflected ball falls to a striker, he then blasts it into a near empty net but a player is offside between him and the keeper, the goal still stands.

The ref decided that Vini making that move clearly prevented the keeper from making a play at the ball. Again it's subjective but I'd say it's a goal.

 

[PotterLog]

That's not true. You can be in the line of vision at a given time and not affect the players ability to play the ball. If the keeper has absolutely no chance of getting to the shot the it's a goal.

Extreme example but if the keeper is well out of position after a deflected ball falls to a striker, he then blasts it into a near empty net but a player is offside between him and the keeper, the goal still stands.

The ref decided that Vini making that move clearly prevented the keeper from making a play at the ball. Again it's subjective but I'd say it's a goal.

Well ok I accept your extreme example. I didn't mean such an incident couldn't occur in real life, just that I think the intention of the wording in the law is to say that basically if you're obstructing the keeper's view of a shot, you're affecting his ability to play the ball. But I might be wrong. In any case I don't think you could get a much clearer example of "clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision" (and preventing him playing the ball properly by blocking his view) than Souza being about one foot in front of the gk's face as the shot is coming towards the goal.

 

[ForgeBlade]

Technically (sadly) maybe correct, but as others have said, that's not my main problem. The problem is this new system sucking the joy out of the game. When Burrows' shot hit the back of the net, it was genuinely the most amazing moment of my football-supporting life. We were away, we were 2-0 up, at Wembley, in control of the game and seemingly on course to break a 100-year hoodoo. I'm not ashamed to admit there were tears of joy in my eyes. Strangers were hugging each other, everyone around me was going utterly insane. I turned to my dad and said "we're going to hammer these now." (and I really think we would have had the goal stood). It was a moment of pure, unbridled joy, and it was destroyed because some jobsworth in an office was desperate to find a way to rule out the goal. That's how VAR is used in this country. It's not to correct "clear and obvious errors" it's to look at every goal scored and try and find a way to disallow it.

Never thought I'd find myself empathising with Coventry fans, but I now know how they felt in the cup semi final last year, and they have my deepest sympathy.

 

[haich1889]

You lot like pain.......leave it....just a game of football

My mum isn't stupid enough to say that. Complete wind up. As a single parent I have very little social life. Blades have always been my love. In fact I have a crap life so trot off into your own lovely existence & don't make such an insulting statement to those if us who are invested 100% in our team.

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

Sunderland fan here.

Imo, the goal was 50/50 on whether it should have stood. My heart sank when seeing the replay as I couldn't see much wrong with it. I can see why it was disallowed, but can also argue why it should have been allowed.

The whole offside/interfering/not interfering rule seems to be a complete mess.

What a strike btw.

If it’s 50/50 surely the advantage should go to the attacking team…
Anyway you’ll need all that luck and more next year. Will watch with interest.
Hope you have a better time than we did last time.

 

[HighfieldBlade]

Technically (sadly) maybe correct, but as others have said, that's not my main problem. The problem is this new system sucking the joy out of the game. When Burrows' shot hit the back of the net, it was genuinely the most amazing moment of my football-supporting life. We were away, we were 2-0 up, at Wembley, in control of the game and seemingly on course to break a 100-year hoodoo. I'm not ashamed to admit there were tears of joy in my eyes. Strangers were hugging each other, everyone around me was going utterly insane. I turned to my dad and said "we're going to hammer these now." (and I really think we would have had the goal stood). It was a moment of pure, unbridled joy, and it was destroyed because some jobsworth in an office was desperate to find a way to rule out the goal. That's how VAR is used in this country. It's not to correct "clear and obvious errors" it's to look at every goal scored and try and find a way to disallow it.

This . 100% this
It was soul-destroying seeing that goal chalked off.

 

[haich1889]

My mum isn't stupid enough to say that. Complete wind up. As a single parent I have very little social life. Blades have always been my love. In fact I have a crap life so trot off into your own lovely existence & don't make such an insulting statement to those if us who are invested 100% in our team.

& yes it's still hurting. Like the penalty shoot out where Huddersfield missed their 1st 3 penaltys (i can't find any other time in football history where this happened) + bringing tortoise Andy Taylor on in the 120th minute cos he's a penalty 'expert' to miss!! + Ched getting jailed (only to be found Not Guilty 2 years later) + KMac (our best player) getting injured 3 games before + James Beattie sent off v Exeter in semi-final.
& like Wolves when turmoil prior to the game fuc#ed up preparations and team selection (why The Crab Mark Rankine started instead of Stuart Mcaul still baffles me) + Jags had his worst game of the season + Brown unbelievably missed a penalty.
Like Burnley when we had Craig Beattie up front cos we had no other strikers + a man sent off.
& Palace when we played half the game with a One armed Don Hutchinson & lost Nicky Henry after being sent off v Ipswich + gareth 'Ginner' Hopkins scoring a last gasp Worldy (Tracey's outstretched arm agonisingly close) exactly like Tom Watson did Saturday.
We find new and heartbreaking ridiculously controversial ways to lose every single time. A straight forward defeat would be tough but the uniquely different and stupid ways we manage to lose every time is mind boggling, making it even tougher. Each heartbreak takes a little more of my resilience & belief. At the moment I don't know if I can do this any more. Sorry if I take this to heart so much. It's who I am and have been for 60 years.

 

[Selly]

Tracey's outstretched arm agonisingly close

I may be misremembering but I don't think Tracey even moved...

 

[Younger Dryas Blade]

The goal wasn't a clear and obvious mistake hence why the Ref was sent to the screen. It then became a subjective personal decision which was influenced by the VAR guys to disallow the goal.

I don't give a flying fuck what VAR said or what the ref thought. No keeper on planet earth was saving that rocket even with an empty box, it went past the keeper before he could blink.

 

[Blade56]

Watch them remove VAR for playoff finals next season.

Or Oliver forgets to switch it on

 

[MagnifiqueShorehamStreet]

The only person who could honestly tell us whether or not his sight was impeded, was the keeper himself, and it never even occurred to him, to run towards the ref to complain, or even raise an eyebrow in that direction, until the VAR check came up.Case closed.
Some arsehole a hundred miles away decides to change the course of a game, from his tv screen, for an incident, that no one else in the ground, not even the ref or keeper himself, thought was unfair about the goal.Shocking isn’t the word.The nerds have taken over our game,

 

[Blade56]

& yes it's still hurting. Like the penalty shoot out where Huddersfield missed their 1st 3 penaltys (i can't find any other time in football history where this happened) + bringing tortoise Andy Taylor on in the 120th minute cos he's a penalty 'expert' to miss!! + Ched getting jailed (only to be found Not Guilty 2 years later) + KMac (our best player) getting injured 3 games before + James Beattie sent off v Exeter in semi-final.
& like Wolves when turmoil prior to the game fuc#ed up preparations and team selection (why The Crab Mark Rankine started instead of Stuart Mcaul still baffles me) + Jags had his worst game of the season + Brown unbelievably missed a penalty.
Like Burnley when we had Craig Beattie up front cos we had no other strikers + a man sent off.
& Palace when we played half the game with a One armed Don Hutchinson & lost Nicky Henry after being sent off v Ipswich + gareth 'Ginner' Hopkins scoring a last gasp Worldy (Tracey's outstretched arm agonisingly close) exactly like Tom Watson did Saturday.
We find new and heartbreaking ridiculously controversial ways to lose every single time. A straight forward defeat would be tough but the uniquely different and stupid ways we manage to lose every time is mind boggling, making it even tougher. Each heartbreak takes a little more of my resilience & belief. At the moment I don't know if I can do this any more. Sorry if I take this to heart so much. It's who I am and have been for 60 years.

Jamie Ward sent off for 2 quick yellows?

 

[programmechap]

I may be misremembering but I don't think Tracey even moved...

Maybe getting mixed up with Chelsea 94 when he was beaten at his near post. He should definitely have saved that.

 

[haich1889]

I may be misremembering but I don't think Tracey even moved...

You are right mate. I think the sands of time clouded this judgement. There may be a couple of their players stood in offside positions blocking Tracey's view though .

 

[haich1889]

Technically (sadly) maybe correct, but as others have said, that's not my main problem. The problem is this new system sucking the joy out of the game. When Burrows' shot hit the back of the net, it was genuinely the most amazing moment of my football-supporting life. We were away, we were 2-0 up, at Wembley, in control of the game and seemingly on course to break a 100-year hoodoo. I'm not ashamed to admit there were tears of joy in my eyes. Strangers were hugging each other, everyone around me was going utterly insane. I turned to my dad and said "we're going to hammer these now." (and I really think we would have had the goal stood). It was a moment of pure, unbridled joy, and it was destroyed because some jobsworth in an office was desperate to find a way to rule out the goal. That's how VAR is used in this country. It's not to correct "clear and obvious errors" it's to look at every goal scored and try and find a way to disallow it.

Never thought I'd find myself empathising with Coventry fans, but I now know how they felt in the cup semi final last year, and they have my deepest sympathy.

Brilliant post mate. I never celebrated a goal like that before. I went crazy with my 2 daughters (never been to a match together before), turned to my mates lad who had tears in his eyes and had time to look 6 seats along where my nephew was showing massive relief because it was 2 -0. A man 5 rows down was in the aisle on his knees looking up & shouting 'thank you.'
I don't think anybody would have been too bothered if it was dis-allowed straight away BUT 3/4 mins was cruel beyond anything I have ever witnessed. There was no appeal from Sunderland players, the scoreboard changed, goal announced over the PA system, players finished celebrating & Sunderland were readying themselves to kick off.
My son-in-law a Man U fan texted saying he didn't think it was offside, my dad also watching on tv said it wasn't offside. How, as you say, was this 'CLEAR & OBVIOUS'???
I believe, however, was to allow a narcissistic referee the opportunity to make history. He took 15 seconds, looking at a portable sized screen to see what the experts couldn't in 2 -3 minutes & boy did he love making that announcement!??? There way he strode on the pitch & waited for his audience to quite down, pure theatre!!!

 

[haich1889]

Kids are unbelievable at times. My mate was with his 10 yr old lad & my 17yr old daughter was with me. As 60yr old adults we should have been there for our young'uns.

Next day his lad said how sad he felt for his dad & my daughter/best mate was devastated for me cos she knew how much it hurt.

Love'em

 

[haich1889]

The law says though that it is only penalised if it clearly prevents the player from playing the ball. Given that Patterson could see the ball when it was struck and actually dived towards the ball that he had no chance of getting, I'd say it didn't.

Therefore even with Vini stepping across him it could easily have been given within the laws. It's not cut and dried, it is a subjective decision.

This was more about the ref having his me me me look at me make history moment & listen to my voice over the system & millions of households.
This is my moment & f##k everyone else. Who on earth came up with this idea is beyond me. The chance to make history & be heard by millions round the World or simply confirm a goal. No brainer for those who love to be hated anyway.

 

[haich1889]

Sunderland fan here.

Imo, the goal was 50/50 on whether it should have stood. My heart sank when seeing the replay as I couldn't see much wrong with it. I can see why it was disallowed, but can also argue why it should have been allowed.

The whole offside/interfering/not interfering rule seems to be a complete mess.

What a strike btw.

In which case it's not clear or obvious, goal stands.

 

[VictoryBlade]

The law says though that it is only penalised if it clearly prevents the player from playing the ball. Given that Patterson could see the ball when it was struck and actually dived towards the ball that he had no chance of getting, I'd say it didn't.

Therefore even with Vini stepping across him it could easily have been given within the laws. It's not cut and dried, it is a subjective decision.

One which Kavanagh couldn't wait to make!

 

[haich1889]

One which Kavanagh couldn't wait to make!

He loved his moment, even his slow walk on to the pitch which delayed the agony.

 

[91stMinute]

Apologies if this has been discussed on this post or elsewhere but I have been off all news/social media since Saturday trying to get my head around what happened. I, like so many others, have been to all 5 failed finals but this one has hit me the most mainly due to one aspect of the game.
How can the powers that be (EFL) allow a Premier League Technology System to be used in the biggest game of the EFL season?
When, every team has played 46 games without the said system. When the four playoff teams have played 2 games without the said system? In what other sport etc would this happen ie. Change the goalposts as it were for the final game. It is absolutely ridiculous. I honestly cannot comprehend why VAR is allowed to be used for just one, important game. If someone could enlighten me I would be grateful.

 

[VictoryBlade]

Brilliant post mate. I never celebrated a goal like that before. I went crazy with my 2 daughters (never been to a match together before), turned to my mates lad who had tears in his eyes and had time to look 6 seats along where my nephew was showing massive relief because it was 2 -0. A man 5 rows down was in the aisle on his knees looking up & shouting 'thank you.'
I don't think anybody would have been too bothered if it was dis-allowed straight away BUT 3/4 mins was cruel beyond anything I have ever witnessed. There was no appeal from Sunderland players, the scoreboard changed, goal announced over the PA system, players finished celebrating & Sunderland were readying themselves to kick off.
My son-in-law a Man U fan texted saying he didn't think it was offside, my dad also watching on tv said it wasn't offside. How, as you say, was this 'CLEAR & OBVIOUS'???
I believe, however, was to allow a narcissistic referee the opportunity to make history. He took 15 seconds, looking at a portable sized screen to see what the experts couldn't in 2 -3 minutes & boy did he love making that announcement!??? There way he strode on the pitch & waited for his audience to quite down, pure theatre!!!

Kavanagh optimizes everything that wrong with this batch of self important self indulgent referee's

 

[SRBlade]

Both Howard Webb and Keith Hackett have stated that our second goal should have been allowed. VAR was meant to intervene only when a clear and obvious error has occurred. Judging by the time Chris Kavanagh took, it was not an obvious error. Not only did we have a legitimate goal ruled out, but our impetus was lost and both the Sunderland team and their supporters were galvanised. The Blades curse strikes again.

Where is the Howard Webb comment?

 

[haich1889]

My daughter took these.

 

[haich1889]

Where is the Howard Webb comment?

I read an article by some ex manager. In the article he used the words 'possibly', 'could have been', 'unclear', 'interpretation', etc throughout. It's sickening really is. Even people who 'think' it was the correct decision, only 'THINK' it was. No one has said it was clearly offside. No one!!!!!

 

[ormester]

It’s a goal, and it’s game over.

Split second decisions on peripheral vision is a nonsense.

Anyone agreeing with the decision is enabling the decimation of our game.

For the past 150 years it’s a goal, not now.

It’s subjective one ref might see it different that’s why var is not cut and dried

 

[programmechap]

It’s subjective one ref might see it different that’s why var is not cut and dried

If we must have VAR, let's just have it for undisputed factual errors - ball over the line, player scoring was offside, trip was inside the box etc.

Where there's any element of subjective judgement, refs decision should be final.

 

[haich1889]

Nuffield said

 

[haich1889]

This was more about the ref having his me me me look at me make history moment & listen to my voice over the system & millions of households.
This is my moment & f##k everyone else. Who on earth came up with this idea is beyond me. The chance to make history & be heard by millions round the World or simply confirm a goal. No brainer for those who love to be hated anyway.