The loser mentality at this club

[HuddersfieldBlade]

How come it was flat.

First 45 minutes it sounded great.

Sunderland were shite and we went in 1-0.

2nd half we started as though we didn’t want to take it to them.
Maybe that’s when the fans went flat.

I saw this defeat coming and when they levelled I said that’s it we’ve lost this. What was it 77 mins. I bet majority of fans felt this as well.

Play dictates fans response.

Agree, Sunderland were quiet till the VAR. we were quiet after there 1st goal went in

 

[AWetFlannel]

You missed the rest of that post for some reason so I'll ask again:

Why didn't we beat Yeovil and Swindon in the play-offs?

Both have different, complicated reasons. All games also involve luck. All teams can reel off a list of failures and create a narrative about being losers - we recently finished 9th in the PL. Look at the swine for that.

 

[Nedski]

I think you might be onto something there.

Why did Peck and Robinson play instead of Davies and Holding?

The latter two have won trophies and played in European competitions for top tier football clubs.

Peck has had a great debut season and deserved to start, but he's played a lot more minutes than he should have, and he and Davies (when fit) should have been rotated a lot more. Had that happened, Davies would probably have started today and ultimately he is the better player.

As for Robinson.. There is zero justification for playing him ahead of Holding. Zero. Anel proved he can play LCB when he was alongside Souttar, and that should have happened as soon as Holding arrived. I'd love to know how many goals we've conceded this season from Robbo's side, because there's been a lot. Wilder can't even use his long throw as a reason for keeping him in the team as we never bloody score from them (and in today's example we instead end up with our other far superior centre back suffering concussion, 10 men on the pitch, and conceding an injury time goal).

 

[FMBlade1]

Both have different, complicated reasons. All games also involve luck. All teams can reel off a list of failures and create a narrative about being losers - we recently finished 9th in the PL. Look at the swine for that.

Yes I agree that we should also look back at our successes and see what we can learn from them as well.

Our failures weren't really down to refereeing mistakes/ bad luck looking back.

If we had a record of 2/10 in the play-offs or something and some of the losses being down to refereeing mistakes I might accept that, but 0/10... no.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Yes I agree that we should also look back at our successes and see what we can learn from them as well.

Our failures weren't really down to refereeing mistakes/ bad luck looking back.

If we had a record of 2/10 in the play-offs or something and some of the losses being down to refereeing mistakes I might accept that, but 0/10... no.

If the same players or manager had lost 10 play off games in a row, I'd be worried.

That 10 different teams with different managers lost 10/10 play off games, it's not the same. We've won plenty of semis, which you're including in with the finals - do they not count as big games won?

 

[luffenhamblade]

Yes I agree that we should also look back at our successes and see what we can learn from them as well.

Our failures weren't really down to refereeing mistakes/ bad luck looking back.

If we had a record of 2/10 in the play-offs or something and some of the losses being down to refereeing mistakes I might accept that, but 0/10... no.

So, all our play off final managers have been crap? That makes sense!

 

[FMBlade1]

So, all our play off final managers have been crap? That makes sense!

That's not what I said, but they all failed in their objectives to get us promoted. We never lost in the play-offs when we were firm underdogs.

If the same players or manager had lost 10 play off games in a row, I'd be worried.

That 10 different teams with different managers lost 10/10 play off games, it's not the same. We've won plenty of semis, which you're including in with the finals - do they not count as big games won?

Winning semi-finals are meaningless unless you win the finals.

I'm looking back at something far deeper/historic with the club to try and work out why things went wrong- not as a blame game, but to think about what can be done to make it right (as we approach midnight on a miserable day).

Maybe everything is bad luck. Maybe its not- if so what is it? (rhetorical).

I would favour an internal/private enquiry led by the club to try and establish why things have gone wrong.

The FA did a review why England didn't win a trophy for 50 odd years, there may be merits in us doing the same.

 

[JJBlade]

We can blame every manager for our consistent failers at wembley and big games, but our fans were shit again today, maybe it has a nock on affect to players? I 100%believe so

Players have no idea about noise when they're playing no matter how much they say they were inspired by it.

And our players have played in total nervous silence almost every game this season because their performances have had fans jittery in every game.

We've been unconvincing in practically every game, hanging on and biting fingernails in practically every game because we have only been winning by an odd goal and gifted total possession to shit teams that proved they weren't good enough to equalise.

Hardly any sort of environment that is going to provide a good atmosphere, blame the fans as much as you want if you want to live in complete denial and make excuses for the spineless bottleless cunts

 

[AWetFlannel]

Players have no idea about noise when they're playing no matter how much they say they were inspired by it.

Not true.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Winning semi-finals are meaningless unless you win the finals.

I'm looking back at something far deeper/historic with the club to try and work out why things went wrong- not as a blame game, but to think about what can be done to make it right (as we approach midnight on a miserable day).

Maybe everything is bad luck. Maybe its not- if so what is it? (rhetorical).

I would favour an internal/private enquiry led by the club to try and establish why things have gone wrong.

The FA did a review why England didn't win a trophy for 50 odd years, there may be merits in us doing the same.

Why did things go wrong today? Bit of VAR, Tommy Watson scores a screamer, Brooks misses a good chance.

You're looking for a deeper, historical problem which will absolutely not exist.

 

[Rudders]

That's not what I said, but they all failed in their objectives to get us promoted. We never lost in the play-offs when we were firm underdogs.



Winning semi-finals are meaningless unless you win the finals.

I'm looking back at something far deeper/historic with the club to try and work out why things went wrong- not as a blame game, but to think about what can be done to make it right (as we approach midnight on a miserable day).

Maybe everything is bad luck. Maybe its not- if so what is it? (rhetorical).

I would favour an internal/private enquiry led by the club to try and establish why things have gone wrong.

The FA did a review why England didn't win a trophy for 50 odd years, there may be merits in us doing the same.

you don’t need to do any enquiry.
You need a good manager and players.
To win more finals you need better players and a better manager.
You need to keep improving both.
Simple game really football

 

[FMBlade1]

Why did things go wrong today? Bit of VAR, Tommy Watson scores a screamer, Brooks misses a good chance.

You're looking for a deeper, historical problem which will absolutely not exist.

Maybe you're right. Maybe not. But I think its certainly worth asking questions and look back into the past like the FA did in their review.

VAR was ultimately correct sadly. Why didn't Brooks score? Why didn't one of our players score a screamer?

There must be something we can learn from all of this.

 

[Rudders]

Maybe you're right. Maybe not. But I think its certainly worth asking questions and look back into the past like the FA did in their review.

VAR was ultimately correct sadly. Why didn't Brooks score? Why didn't one of our players score a screamer?

There must be something we can learn from all of this.

Sunderland today had better players than us (Watson, Patterson and Mayenda). Their manager comprehensively defeated ours both in tactics and man management. Manager and players. Have better than the opposition and you win games of football

 

[Older Blade]

How come it was flat.

First 45 minutes it sounded great.

Sunderland were shite and we went in 1-0.

2nd half we started as though we didn’t want to take it to them.
Maybe that’s when the fans went flat.

I saw this defeat coming and when they levelled I said that’s it we’ve lost this. What was it 77 mins. I bet majority of fans felt this as well.

Play dictates fans response.

100%, bang on the money

 

[FMBlade1]

Sunderland today had better players than us (Watson, Patterson and Mayenda). Their manager comprehensively defeated ours both in tactics and man management. Manager and players. Have better than the opposition and you win games of football

Then why did we finish 14 points ahead of them in the league?

Ok they arguably took their foot off the pedal in the final few games but even if they won 4 more games we still would have finished ahead of them.

 

[Booker4]

So it's a club problem? Every managers problem? Sunderland were the underdogs today and got there second goal through there fans backing, do you think negative energy through our support may hindered us today or not

I did t hear their fans much u til they equalised. We were very loud first half, second half it was quieter at times because we're very nervous and then they scored but I thought overall our fans were decent.

 

[moody1889]

We need a Farke type manager and to back then a manager that sets his team up to play attack attack attack.

That is when we are at our best.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Reaction from the fans said a lot today, we concede a goal and we get quiet and it's not the first time this season where that has happened.

Atmosphere at the lane has been poor most of the season, which changed thanks to that fan advisory board and those blades on Facebook doing something to improve the atmosphere against Bristol City.

Because as fans we expect the response that we got, pathetic from players and management. We’ve been there before and will be again. Yet it’s the fans fault!

 

[Toronto Blade]

We never have any money. Not really. We always end up cutting corners and then paying the price for it.

We did have money Wilder spent it on Brewster

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

No way we'd be able to do another rebuild and get promoted.you need 2 seasons. Wilder and co new the club back to front and the players.

The modern model involves scouting and finding good young players, coaching them and developing them to improve them then sell them on for huge profits. This then bank rolls future signings of a similar ilk or the occasional marquee signing, rinse and repeat. Also selling a homegrown player records profits for FFP.

Sunderland have this with their young squad, Coventry have followed this model. Lower down the leagues Peterborough and Lincoln city have adopted this model. We are way off this.

Other than Ndiaye and the shock big money, unexpected sale of Osula what have we had like this, or who do we have? Arblaster? Who may return good or this injury may set him back loads. Peck? An inconsistent headless chicken who gives away the ball time after time but fans over rate him because he thumps the badge at the final whistle. Marsh? He has been the biggest victim of our rebuild as he should have gone out on loan at the start of the season but he was held back and was wasted in the development side and he's gone backwards.

The first season we stayed up Villa sold Grealish and that bankrolled their summer. We didn't even have a player we could sell for £20mil and that was a harsh reality.

 

[UTB Blade]

There's a couple of comments about owners and money.

Fair enough, that does come into it slightly.

But it doesn't explain why we couldn't beat Yeovil and Swindon amongst other things.

We do appear to have good owners who invested £10 million in Tom Cannon (dreadful, Wilder's fault).

Perhaps some sports psychologists would help?

Usually I'd be dead against consultants as they tend to be leeches but it would be interesting if someone professional looked into all of this and make suggestions of what we can do to change this.

We definitely had a psychologist in the League 1 promotion season.

I remember seeing photos of him walking round the pitch with the players at the end of the MK Dons 'promotion party' away game.

I have to say I'll be shocked if we don't have one at the moment.

All elite level athletes have one, and mostly swear by them.

As a decent sized Championship club, we should most definitely be employing one.

 

[Guesty]

It was very loud where I was for most of the match, and I barely heard a peep from the supposedly wonderful Sunderland fans until deep into the match.

It would be abject cowardice of the players to blame any of that fiasco yesterday on the crowd, and yet they did demonstrate that quality in abundance, so you never know.

 

[robbiez666]

The modern model involves scouting and finding good young players, coaching them and developing them to improve them then sell them on for huge profits. This then bank rolls future signings of a similar ilk or the occasional marquee signing, rinse and repeat. Also selling a homegrown player records profits for FFP.

Sunderland have this with their young squad, Coventry have followed this model. Lower down the leagues Peterborough and Lincoln city have adopted this model. We are way off this.

Other than Ndiaye and the shock big money, unexpected sale of Osula what have we had like this, or who do we have? Arblaster? Who may return good or this injury may set him back loads. Peck? An inconsistent headless chicken who gives away the ball time after time but fans over rate him because he thumps the badge at the final whistle. Marsh? He has been the biggest victim of our rebuild as he should have gone out on loan at the start of the season but he was held back and was wasted in the development side and he's gone backwards.

The first season we stayed up Villa sold Grealish and that bankrolled their summer. We didn't even have a player we could sell for £20mil and that was a harsh reality.

Our youth system is our main strength and we've used it to bankroll us before. Sure, we often have to sell at a much earlier stage but that's the least of our worries.

Our main issue is foreign scouting and the refusal of our manager to use it.

I think we tick youth development and with Cooper/Burrows we've signed two of the best players from clubs below us.

Look at Anel, Bergr and Vini. Three players from abroad who have worked out. The trick is that players from foreign leagues need time to adapt. Slimani and Larouci are both Championship regulars. Traore scored 13 goals for the Swiss champions. We expected them to hit the ground running when they need time to adjust.

 

[United Aren't Back.]

Players have no idea about noise when they're playing no matter how much they say they were inspired by it.

And our players have played in total nervous silence almost every game this season because their performances have had fans jittery in every game.

We've been unconvincing in practically every game, hanging on and biting fingernails in practically every game because we have only been winning by an odd goal and gifted total possession to shit teams that proved they weren't good enough to equalise.

Hardly any sort of environment that is going to provide a good atmosphere, blame the fans as much as you want if you want to live in complete denial and make excuses for the spineless bottleless cunts

Yeah.
Portsmouth and Plymouth bossed their games at the Lane and United very lucky to win.

 

[Whitby-Blade]

Our fans were flat as always at Wembley but it's not mainly a fans issue

That stadium is uniquely stifling. It's unlike any I've ever been to. You feel like you're just shouting into the ether and wasting your all effort

The national football stadium isn't designed for football. It is absolutely dreadful

I’ve had the same opinion over the years but the Sunderland supporters proved that’s not the case. They brought a better atmosphere than we did.

Walking back to the tube my eldest son says those Sunderland fans were really loud. Unfortunately as a group of fans we don’t bring the best backing for the team. We weren’t the 12 man yesterday and the atmosphere has been flat for the majority of our home matches.

I was in block 520 with my 2 kids who are new to it all this season, ended up sat next to a group who I recognise from the back of the kop. He spent the first 60/70 mins trying to get chants going, we joined in but near silence from 99% of the block. He eventually turns to me and says “you’d get more feedback in a morgue, what’s the point” and gives in.

When the team needs a lift, our end is silent or nearing mildly hostile towards our players and manager because things aren’t going our way.

No idea what the answer is but I’m all for the effort of Shoreham Boys 89 (is it Lee?). It does feel like it’s very much embedded in our support in general and it’s not going to be easy to make that change.

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

I’ve had the same opinion over the years but the Sunderland supporters proved that’s not the case. They brought a better atmosphere than we did.

Walking back to the tube my eldest son says those Sunderland fans were really loud. Unfortunately as a group of fans we don’t bring the best backing for the team. We weren’t the 12 man yesterday and the atmosphere has been flat for the majority of our home matches.

I was in block 520 with my 2 kids who are new to it all this season, ended up sat next to a group who I recognise from the back of the kop. He spent the first 60/70 mins trying to get chants going, we joined in but near silence from 99% of the block. He eventually turns to me and says “you’d get more feedback in a morgue, what’s the point” and gives in.

When the team needs a lift, our end is silent or nearing mildly hostile towards our players and manager because things aren’t going our way.

No idea what the answer is but I’m all for the effort of Shoreham Boys 89 (is it Lee?). It does feel like it’s very much embedded in our support in general and it’s not going to be easy to make that change.

To be heard at Wembley you need massive numbers singing in unison. Which we find impossible, even for the fucking GCB

Sunderland fans were shite too but after the equaliser they managed it in unison on a few occasions

As I said, I'm not only blaming Wembley, as our fans seem to have a unique lack of energy and testosterone. But throw this abomination of a football stadium into the mix and you get an atmosphere like yesterday's - flat, even when we're winning

 

[Sheffsteel]

We’re a very bladey blade club. As soon as we break the bladiness we will win something.

Wilder needs to go.

We need to focus on getting Cat1 academy.

We need to get promoted next season with a complete different identity.

A fresh one.

We’ve tried the new identity thing several times.

Think back to Robson and Slavisa Jukanovic.
The new identity thing is always a big mistake and never works.

 

[Grappler]

I’ve had the same opinion over the years but the Sunderland supporters proved that’s not the case. They brought a better atmosphere than we did.

Walking back to the tube my eldest son says those Sunderland fans were really loud. Unfortunately as a group of fans we don’t bring the best backing for the team. We weren’t the 12 man yesterday and the atmosphere has been flat for the majority of our home matches.

I was in block 520 with my 2 kids who are new to it all this season, ended up sat next to a group who I recognise from the back of the kop. He spent the first 60/70 mins trying to get chants going, we joined in but near silence from 99% of the block. He eventually turns to me and says “you’d get more feedback in a morgue, what’s the point” and gives in.

When the team needs a lift, our end is silent or nearing mildly hostile towards our players and manager because things aren’t going our way.

No idea what the answer is but I’m all for the effort of Shoreham Boys 89 (is it Lee?). It does feel like it’s very much embedded in our support in general and it’s not going to be easy to make that change.

We were in 107 and it was like being in G and H block at home, singing for most of the game, but the sound just doesn't travel at Wembley, I bet people 10 - 15 rows in front of us couldn't even hear us.

And yes, Sunderland were quiet after we went 1 - 0 up. They came to life after the VAR decision.

 

[Sheffsteel]

We need a Farke type manager and to back then a manager that sets his team up to play attack attack attack.

That is when we are at our best.

Sounds good in theory….but then our fans would complain the manager is an idiot because we have no defence.
Also having an attacking mentality generally leads to inconsistency…things click you win 0-4…the week after you lose 4-0.
Our fans wouldn’t accept it.

 

[Bell4]

A lot of it is self fulfilling prophesy doom and gloom. The atmosphere in the ground after the goal was disallowed totally flipped. It was " it's happening again" mentality rather than us roaring them over the line.

Wasn’t it just

Spot on