General warning re. flares & pyro

[Linz]

I'm sure everyone on here is rather above that sort of thing, but it might filter through to the people who should be heeding this warning.

Whenever the Club have put press releases out, they got shot down for spoiling peoples' fun. Well, it looks as though there's been a particular crack-down by various Police forces round the country with regards to pyro this weekend.

Tweets from Stand Against Modern Football @standamf:

Fan denied entry yesterday due to #nopyronoparty tweet in run up to match. Police even had print outs of tweets/profile pics at turnstiles.

Fan was searched and had nothing on him. Just a heads up that what might seem innocent enough on twitter can cause problems. #bigbrother

No idea which game it was.

Plus...

@standamf happened to me at Tamworth in the cup. Bristol coppers pulled 3 of us aside and said they had intelligence we had smoke bombs. searched and filmed. Names and addresses taken. We had nothing on us.

@standamf seems like the authorities are goin after people big time on this. Just back from WBA/LFC sniffer dogs patrolling turnstiles today

And from Football Supporters' Federation Fair Cop @FSF_FairCop

#Pyro amnesty bins will be out at the Britannia tomorrow + the deployment of sniffer dogs. Conviction may mean banning order. #scfc #mufc

Can't say you haven't been warned.

 

[alcoblade]

Boooooooo.



UTB

 

[Kenilworth]

 

[Hartley Hare]

Awful music, it has given me a headache.

 

[Selly]

Awful music, it has given me a headache.

Try this one instead

 

[JJ Sefton]

 

[JJ Sefton]

 

[JJ Sefton]

 

[Ballinpigpubs13]

A young pig friend of my son was searched at Burnley versus pigs away a few weeks ago and had a flare on him.
He was arrested. He had to go back to Burnley last week and was charged with firearm offences!

 

[JJ Sefton]

 

[JJ Sefton]

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LCnebZnysmI#t=29

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

It's political correctness gone mad.

 

[Selly]

@standamf happened to me at Tamworth in the cup. Bristol coppers pulled 3 of us aside and said they had intelligence we had smoke bombs. searched and filmed. Names and addresses taken. We had nothing on us.

Having found the sum total of fuck all, are the fuzz actually allowed to take your Name and Address? Seems to me, no crime has been committed, so why should I have my name potentially appear alongside others on a football troublemakers database???

Darren - this most certainly is your area of expertise, interested in your thoughts.

GENERAL DISCLAIMER: Its never likely to happen to me as I don`t generally post daft things on Twitter, and I'm not fucking stupid enough to actually go anywhere near a flare.

 

[Linz]

Having found the sum total of fuck all, are the fuzz actually allowed to take your Name and Address? Seems to me, no crime has been committed, so why should I have my name potentially appear alongside others on a football troublemakers database???

They take it to run it in the database, not to store it as far as I know.

My favourite story of (South Yorkshire) Police arsery involves one WPC pulling up in a squad car and calling us to one side at the bottom of Upper Albert Road. We were taking pictures of the huge pothole next to a speedbump which had caused damage to the underside of Foxy's car.

"We have to ask anyone in a public place why they're taking pictures because of terrorism" were her words.

Fucking terrorism? On Upper Albert Road?

Our names and addresses were taken and checked against the jihadist database. She allowed us on our way with a finger wagging about taking photos in public places, as though we were lucky to get away with it. I think we laughed at her more than once, and now retain the link about how photographing public places is completely legal close at hand. Wish we'd taken her number and asked her superiors to have a word but it was too hilarious.

You don't have to commit a crime for them to want your name and address... and I'd assume they described the tweets as "incitement to commit a criminal act". They just have to think that you might commit one at some uncertain point in the future. And if they know they're on dodgy ground, they just mention terrorists every now and again.

 

[Darren]

Having found the sum total of fuck all, are the fuzz actually allowed to take your Name and Address? Seems to me, no crime has been committed, so why should I have my name potentially appear alongside others on a football troublemakers database???

Darren - this most certainly is your area of expertise, interested in your thoughts.

GENERAL DISCLAIMER: Its never likely to happen to me as I don`t generally post daft things on Twitter, and I'm not fucking stupid enough to actually go anywhere near a flare.

The police have no general power to compel you to give your name and address. You are quite within your rights to refuse to give them.

However, if they suspect you of an offence they may well ask for your name and address as an alternative to arresting you (so that the Court can send you a summons in respect of the aleged offence). If you refuse to give it in those circumstances, you can be arrested.

In the example given if the people were serached and no smoke bombs were found, that would seem to have obviated any suspicion of an offence there might have been and thus the people concerned could have refused to give name and address and I would strongly advise people in that situation to so refuse. Otherwise you may find yourself on the database of "risk" supporters and be subject to a lot of police attention.

So my general advise to anyone asked by an officer for their name and address would be to ask politely if they are suspected of an offence and, if so, what. I would also suggest that you or your mate films the conversation with the officer. If the officer says you are suspected of an offence give your name and address. If not, not.

This is actually an area I do a lot of work in (a lot referred by the FSF). If anyone does get into any trouble with the police in this area PM me. I am happy to give free advice and you may have a case (there's nowt like touting for business).

 

[Darren]

They take it to run it in the database, not to store it as far as I know.

My favourite story of (South Yorkshire) Police arsery involves one WPC pulling up in a squad car and calling us to one side at the bottom of Upper Albert Road. We were taking pictures of the huge pothole next to a speedbump which had caused damage to the underside of Foxy's car.

"We have to ask anyone in a public place why they're taking pictures because of terrorism" were her words.

Fucking terrorism? On Upper Albert Road?

Our names and addresses were taken and checked against the jihadist database. She allowed us on our way with a finger wagging about taking photos in public places, as though we were lucky to get away with it. I think we laughed at her more than once, and now retain the link about how photographing public places is completely legal close at hand. Wish we'd taken her number and asked her superiors to have a word but it was too hilarious.

You don't have to commit a crime for them to want your name and address... and I'd assume they described the tweets as "incitement to commit a criminal act". They just have to think that you might commit one at some uncertain point in the future. And if they know they're on dodgy ground, they just mention terrorists every now and again.

You could have refused your name and address. As you said taking photographs in a public place is not an offence and doing so is nowhere near enough to constitute reasonable suspicion of terrorism, so she wouldn't have arrested you.

 

[Linz]

You could have refused your name and address. As you said taking photographs in a public place is not an offence and doing so is nowhere near enough to constitute reasonable suspicion of terrorism, so she wouldn't have arrested you.

Oh, we know that. But we had better things to do than argue with the silly tart who just kept uttering the word "terrorism" like a tourettes tick. The levels of absurdity were high enough without any more arguing. Who goes to "terrorist" dressed in the bright orange away kit as Foxy was?!

 

[Linz]

I would also suggest that you or your mate films the conversation with the officer. If the officer says you are suspected of an offence give your name and address. If not, not.

Oooo... they don't like that.

 

[Darren]

Oooo... they don't like that.

I know, but there's nothing illegal about it and it makes them extra careful in what they say to you.

 

[Darren]

Oh, we know that. But we had better things to do than argue with the silly tart who just kept uttering the word "terrorism" like a tourettes tick. The levels of absurdity were high enough without any more arguing. Who goes to "terrorist" dressed in the bright orange away kit as Foxy was?!

No need to argue. Just refuse to give the name and address and walk away.

 

[Linz]

I know, but there's nothing illegal about it and it makes them extra careful in what they say to you.

Not quite the Police, but you have to be prepared to argue with logic like this when it comes to photography:

 

[georgebernardshaw]

I got my flares out of the cupboard, and they don't bloody fit..

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Not quite the Police, but you have to be prepared to argue with logic like this when it comes to photography:

Does that guy just troll security guards for laughs?

Fair play to him.

And by god that lass sounds thick

 

[Junior Soduko]

I am absolutely howling!

 

[bricktop]

Anyone who is stupid enough to take and discharge a flare to the match more or less might as well have a sign on their forehead saying please arrest me and give me a banning order.

I find the standard of policing and stewardship varies wildly from club to club.

I got arrested and done for being drunk inside a designated sports ground at Newcastle a few years ago, and admittedly i had consumed a skin full but wasn't posing any kind of threat, was in control of my faculties and was genuinely astounded to find myself in trouble. I ended up getting fined, and it was the fact that i hadn't got any previous, wasn't considered a risk supporter, and had character references from a senior steward at Bramall Lane meant that i didn't get the 3 year banning order the Northumbria Police was so desperate to get me.

 

[BusheyBlade]

Not quite the Police, but you have to be prepared to argue with logic like this when it comes to photography:

I guess one needs to do something for entertainment living in Scunthorpe...

 

[Linz]

I got arrested and done for being drunk inside a designated sports ground at Newcastle a few years ago, and admittedly i had consumed a skin full but wasn't posing any kind of threat, was in control of my faculties and was genuinely astounded to find myself in trouble.

It's an offence to enter a football ground drunk. Obviously it's a judgement call as to whether it leads to an arrest, but that's the law. The important bit to note is this:

Neither stewards nor police will breathalyse you if you’re suspected of being drunk, it is entirely at their discretion and, trust me, it’s very, very difficult to appeal that decision.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/blog/view/tis-the-season-to-be-jollybut-not-too-jolly-if-youre-a-football-fan

 

[dingledog]

Its amazing that Silverfox ever gets into the ground then. Obviously they feel sorry for him in his advancing years.

 

[bricktop]

It's an offence to enter a football ground drunk. Obviously it's a judgement call as to whether it leads to an arrest, but that's the law. The important bit to note is this:



http://www.fsf.org.uk/blog/view/tis-the-season-to-be-jollybut-not-too-jolly-if-youre-a-football-fan

The problem with this is

1. A lack of knowledge by supporters which can lead people unwittingly in to trouble

2. It gived snap judgement to police and more pertinently a steward who might have had one days training but may make a judgement that could have long reaching consequences for the person involved.

It is very much like walking through a minefield for those that a good drink is considered de rigour for a decent away day