Pyro cock

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

Could we get this going on the Kop at BDTBL?

Si dahn...

 

[Damski]

You have got to be trolling. Honestly, if this is like, non-ironic, if this is for real, then wow. Wow. I cannot fathom the ignorance.

It is pretty ridiculous seeing most of you in complete denial of a problem. Someone actually came on here and said that flares could potentially be harmful enough for them to need medical treatment and the reaction seems to be "Well don't go to games, then!" Which is an awful attitude. How about you just don't ruin the game for someone. How about that. And yes, it does distress people, and yes, that is a problem! It's not the 80's any more. Football is now a family sport. Get over it.

People pay the price of a ticket and travel to see the game, they have the right to watch it without fear of getting ill and having to leave, because you just had to set off a flare. It's great that you don't get affected by it. Well done. Have a fucking sticker. It doesn't affect me either. Maybe I should get a sticker. I'm a healthy young man who can breathe in the smoke with no problems. Aren't we all lucky to have healthy lungs. But some people aren't, are they? Some people have the temerity to have health problems. How dare they ruin your fun! Why not make them suffer just so you can throw a flare? Who cares! (which is like, the most embarrasing and tinpot thing to do at fucking COLCHESTER, by the way.)

I think it's great, at the right games. It adds atmosphere, it looks mega in a stand full of people and it doesn't make a difference to me. But you have to accommodate for everyone. If it poses a health risk to some people, then yes, absolutely it should be banned. It's not some PC conspiracy to stop your fun, is it. It's so people who have medical conditions can still see the match, isn't it. You can talk all the shit you want about your precious fun being curtailed, but Jesus Christ you really are moronic if you don't get this. It's quite simple.

 

[Pierre's PC]

http://www.artspyrotechnics.com/show.asp?id=316

 

[Chali 2na]

You have got to be trolling. Honestly, if this is like, non-ironic, if this is for real, then wow. Wow. I cannot fathom the ignorance.

It is pretty ridiculous seeing most of you in complete denial of a problem. Someone actually came on here and said that flares could potentially be harmful enough for them to need medical treatment and the reaction seems to be "Well don't go to games, then!" Which is an awful attitude. How about you just don't ruin the game for someone. How about that. And yes, it does distress people, and yes, that is a problem! It's not the 80's any more. Football is now a family sport. Get over it.

People pay the price of a ticket and travel to see the game, they have the right to watch it without fear of getting ill and having to leave, because you just had to set off a flare. It's great that you don't get affected by it. Well done. Have a fucking sticker. It doesn't affect me either. Maybe I should get a sticker. I'm a healthy young man who can breathe in the smoke with no problems. Aren't we all lucky to have healthy lungs. But some people aren't, are they? Some people have the temerity to have health problems. How dare they ruin your fun! Why not make them suffer just so you can throw a flare? Who cares! (which is like, the most embarrasing and tinpot thing to do at fucking COLCHESTER, by the way.)

I think it's great, at the right games. It adds atmosphere, it looks mega in a stand full of people and it doesn't make a difference to me. But you have to accommodate for everyone. If it poses a health risk to some people, then yes, absolutely it should be banned. It's not some PC conspiracy to stop your fun, is it. It's so people who have medical conditions can still see the match, isn't it. You can talk all the shit you want about your precious fun being curtailed, but Jesus Christ you really are moronic if you don't get this. It's quite simple.

Your post is well thought out, and I understand where you're coming from in a lot of ways. I also (as I said above) don't really like flares, I don't see the point.

However, allow me to ask you this: Have you ever let off fireworks? Because if so you could potentially be seriously exacerbating/triggering a former soldier's PTSD who lives in your neighbourhood.

There's an argument that it's a slippery slope and it's hard to draw a line.

Flares areally generally harmless, and I belive that those who worry that a flare could endanger their life due to a medical condition should sit with the other disabled blades.

 

[Treeton Blade]

I saw this bastard on the pitch at the end, banning order please Jim

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Your post is well thought out, and I understand where you're coming from in a lot of ways. I also (as I said above) don't really like flares, I don't see the point.

However, allow me to ask you this: Have you ever let off fireworks? Because if so you could potentially be seriously exacerbating/triggering a former soldier's PTSD who lives in your neighbourhood.

There's an argument that it's a slippery slope and it's hard to draw a line.

Flares areally generally harmless, and I belive that those who worry that a flare could endanger their life due to a medical condition should sit with the other disabled blades.

But if your a a former soldier with PTSD you'd be expecting fireworks on fireworks night.

If you go to a football match, you dont expect a smoke bomb let off in your face.

Damskis post is spot on. And some idiots on this thread seem to want to pigeon hole everyone - if you dont like smoke bombs then that means you automatically dont like an atmosphere, singing etc etc. Just boring and childish.

 

[Chali 2na]

But if your a a former soldier with PTSD you'd be expecting fireworks on fireworks night.

If you go to a football match, you dont expect a smoke bomb let off in your face.

Damskis post is spot on. And some idiots on this thread seem to want to pigeon hole everyone - if you dont like smoke bombs then that means you automatically dont like an atmosphere, singing etc etc. Just boring and childish.

Fair enough, though a PTSD sufferer might argue that anticipating those fire works doesn't change the effect.

As I've stated twice. I'm not pro flare/smoke bomb. I jut wish people would stop being so precious. I don't want an airport style gauntlet of body scanners and hour long lines to get into the football on a Saturday.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Fair enough, though a PTSD sufferer might argue that anticipating those fire works doesn't change the effect.

As I've stated twice. I'm not pro flare/smoke bomb. I jut wish people would stop being so precious. I don't want an airport style gauntlet of body scanners and hour long lines to get into the football on a Saturday.

Doesn't change the affect, but he can at least plan for it.

I don't think the opening post is being too precious to be fair - just wants to attend a match without having a flare let off in his face and aggravating severe health conditions. Whether someone is pro/anti flair - you cant really argue with that can you?

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Genuine question for Tyler Durden -

Lets say you took Tyler Durden Junior to a match, SUFC score and the guy next to you sets off a flare. This flare, whilst creating a great atmosphere, causes TD Junior to have a bad reaction to the smoke and becomes greatly distressed. Is your first thought;

a - Cant believe a prick has set off a flare that close to us, not on that.
b - He'll be OK, got to expect it, price you have to pay for a good atmosphere. And the flare is integral to this.

Like I say, genuine question.

 

[Chali 2na]

Doesn't change the affect, but he can at least plan for it.

I don't think the opening post is being too precious to be fair - just wants to attend a match without having a flare let off in his face and aggravating severe health conditions. Whether someone is pro/anti flair - you cant really argue with that can you?

I understand, but what is he achieving by moaning on a message board? It's kids letting off these fairs and I'd guess that they're not reading this thread and that they'll continue to let off flairs.

The only way I see it stopping is with a ridiculous amount of screening pre-game with scanners and body searches for all fans. Unless you want that then this whole argument is redundant.

 

[Jonboy60]

Apparently, the guy in question is from Lowestoft, and has received a lifetime ban from Bdtbl. Source, the reliably informed f/b.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

I understand, but what is he achieving by moaning on a message board? It's kids letting off these fairs and I'd guess that they're not reading this thread and that they'll continue to let off flairs.

The only way I see it stopping is with a ridiculous amount of screening pre-game with scanners and body searches for all fans. Unless you want that then this whole argument is redundant.

Why post anything on a forum then? This message board is full of debate, opinions, moaning. What its for surely.

All I don't get is how people can simply dismiss and belittle his initial concerns/rant.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Might be better if posters knew the difference between flares and smoke bombs.

And also that flares can be dangerous from heat.

 

[Chali 2na]

Why post anything on a forum then? This message board is full of debate, opinions, moaning. What its for surely.

All I don't get is how people can simply dismiss and belittle his initial concerns/rant.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Genuine question for Tyler Durden -

Lets say you took Tyler Durden Junior to a match, SUFC score and the guy next to you sets off a flare. This flare, whilst creating a great atmosphere, causes TD Junior to have a bad reaction to the smoke and becomes greatly distressed. Is your first thought;

a - Cant believe a prick has set off a flare that close to us, not on that.
b - He'll be OK, got to expect it, price you have to pay for a good atmosphere. And the flare is integral to this.

Like I say, genuine question.

Honestly? It'd be a combination of A and B.

For what it's worth I think he was a bit of a daft sod for doing such a thing at Colchester of all places. It's hardly a place which sets the scene for those sorts of actions.
But given that many supporters grew up as kids in the 70's and 80's with hazards such as smoking on the terraces and hooligans throwing missiles at each other. It's exponentially less serious.
Bramall Lane wasn't an extremely comfortable, sterile place when I started going and I'm relatively young, and if I'm being honest, it was part of the attraction.
Of course I don't want anyone getting hurt by the actions of others, that goes without saying. I just think there should be section for this kind of stuff in the ground. Then everyone is happy.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Honestly? It'd be a combination of A and B.

For what it's worth I think he was a bit of a daft sod for doing such a thing at Colchester of all places. It's hardly a place which sets the scene for those sorts of actions.
But given that many supporters grew up as kids in the 70's and 80's with hazards such as smoking on the terraces and hooligans throwing missiles at each other. It's exponentially less serious.
Bramall Lane wasn't an extremely comfortable, sterile place when I started going and I'm relatively young, and if I'm being honest, it was part of the attraction.
Of course I don't want anyone getting hurt by the actions of others, that goes without saying. I just think there should be section for this kind of stuff in the ground. Then everyone is happy.

Yeah I think that's the grey area that has caused a bigger debate than necessary - no one wants fans hurt or put off coming to matches, and no one should put others at risk. Put people strive for the best atmosphere possible, and for some this includes 'pyros'. The ideal is somewhere in the middle.

The problem doesn't lie with particular clubs either, which is where the crux of the issues lay.

Cheers for the reasoned response to the question, it could have been perceived that I was playing devils advocate, or trying to shit stir, but I was just genuinely interested if the given scenario would change your outlook at all.

 

[Geordie Blade]

It's not my place to doubt whether your condition would be triggered by such a thing, but if I was a betting man I would say that many of those who complain, have no such afflictions.

I don't understand your point. Are you saying that only people who have afflictions are allowed to care about the impact that it would have on people with afflictions? If that's the case, it's a strange, self-centred world that you're living in. Personally, I'm quite happy that the 'PC brigade' look out for other people who might be suffering, even though it's of no direct benefit to themselves.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Yeah I think that's the grey area that has caused a bigger debate than necessary - no one wants fans hurt or put off coming to matches, and no one should put others at risk. Put people strive for the best atmosphere possible, and for some this includes 'pyros'. The ideal is somewhere in the middle.

The problem doesn't lie with particular clubs either, which is where the crux of the issues lay.

Cheers for the reasoned response to the question, it could have been perceived that I was playing devils advocate, or trying to shit stir, but I was just genuinely interested if the given scenario would change your outlook at all.

No worries, I appreciate how you opened the discussion to be honest. It's refreshing to exchange views with someone without butting heads for a change!

 

[Hartley Hare]

Lowestoft always was a dodgy place. I have a memory that it is the most easterly point of Gt. Britain.

Lowestoft have a chess team as well. I wonder if flareman plays chess?

HH

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

I wonder if flareman plays chess?

HH

I'll have a check mate.

 

[Hartley Hare]

Tee Hee

 

[Tyler Durden]

I don't understand your point. Are you saying that only people who have afflictions are allowed to care about the impact that it would have on people with afflictions? If that's the case, it's a strange, self-centred world that you're living in. Personally, I'm quite happy that the 'PC brigade' look out for other people who might be suffering, even though it's of no direct benefit to themselves.

In context of everything I've said on the subject, I'm actually arguing against the self centredness of others. There are types of people in any given football match that won't tolerate anything which disturbs their own self-contained bubble. Whether it's moaning about e-cig vapour or telling people to shut up singing.
I also happen to think that those who do use flares/cannisters aren't neccessarily spawns of Satan who need stringing up. Only in this country do people seem to have that view.
As I've said, there should be areas of the ground where this sort of thing can happen without disturbing others. That's a pretty accomodating viewpoint is it not?

 

[Paulus]

Bramall Lane wasn't an extremely comfortable, sterile place when I started going and I'm relatively young, and if I'm being honest, it was part of the attraction.
Of course I don't want anyone getting hurt by the actions of others, that goes without saying. I just think there should be section for this kind of stuff in the ground. Then everyone is happy.

But in your role as spokesperson in chief for the pyro throwing brotherhood, you are not just thinking that there should be a section for this kind of stuff. The clear implication of your comments upthread and those of your nodding donkeys is that it is me that should go off "somewhere special" not you. For what it is worth I've worked all my life, I've never claimed any benefit associated with this, I don't have a disabled badge, in fact I don't consider myself disabled. I don't think I do anything "PC" that I can think of, that would offend your fine sensibilities about the nanny state, as confused as they are. I am quite capable of managing the situation with medication and forethought, it is only the unexpected that is likely to cause me a problem - true I'm never going to run a marathon or get a job as a fireman but apparently this is not enough. I should now also inconvenience myself further so that you can indulge your anti-social behaviour. The fantastic irony of all of this is that the logic of your position is such that it forces laws to be introduced because there are so many self centred anti-social bastards about that there is no possibility of allowing common decency or consideration of others to provide a solution in itself. Essentially the behaviour you are promoting is leading directly to the type of laws you find so contemptible.

 

[Geordie Blade]

As I've said, there should be areas of the ground where this sort of thing can happen without disturbing others. That's a pretty accomodating viewpoint is it not?

In theory, yes. But you'd have to try and accommodate every permutation. What about people that like standing up, but don't like e-cigs? Or those that want to vape (or even smoke) but don't like swearing? Or vice-versa, etc.? It quickly gets pretty complex to try and keep everyone happy all the time. As a society, we try to build in a few reasonable boundaries as to what is/isn't acceptable and hope that everyone will stick with them.

 

[Tyler Durden]

But in your role as spokesperson in chief for the pyro throwing brotherhood, you are not just thinking that there should be a section for this kind of stuff. The clear implication of your comments upthread and those of your nodding donkeys is that it is me that should go off "somewhere special" not you. For what it is worth I've worked all my life, I've never claimed any benefit associated with this, I don't have a disabled badge, in fact I don't consider myself disabled. I don't think I do anything "PC" that I can think of, that would offend your fine sensibilities about the nanny state, as confused as they are. I am quite capable of managing the situation with medication and forethought, it is only the unexpected that is likely to cause me a problem - true I'm never going to run a marathon or get a job as a fireman but apparently this is not enough. I should now also inconvenience myself further so that you can indulge your anti-social behaviour. The fantastic irony of all of this is that the logic of your position is such that it forces laws to be introduced because there are so many self centred anti-social bastards about that there is no possibility of allowing common decency or consideration of others to provide a solution in itself. Essentially the behaviour you are exhibiting is leading directly to the type of laws you find so contemptible.

Wrong on several counts there. I've never used pyro in my life, not really my thing. Which leads to your second mistake, I'm no spokesman for anyone other than myself. I just refuse to accept your narrative about those who do such things being monsters.
I have not once suggested that you or anyone else who doesn't like pyrotechnics should go anywhere else. In fact I have suggested that those who do such things should be the ones who are allowed to move to their own section, thereby accomodating all concerned, this is now my third consecutive post saying as much.
Is that fair enough, or can I expect another crock of 'letters-to-the-editor' style bitchiness to come my way?

 

[Paulus]

I've made my position clear if you want to get all mealy mouthed about what you've said or not said that's up to you - anyone who can be bothered can look back and draw there own conclusions. You've consistently sought to belittle the stance of the OP and you've pursued the argument more than anyone else, in terms of a message board that pretty much makes you spokesperson in chief whether you see that or not. I've no idea what the self absorbed stuff on the bottom line is about.

 

[Tyler Durden]

In theory, yes. But you'd have to try and accommodate every permutation. What about people that like standing up, but don't like e-cigs? Or those that want to vape (or even smoke) but don't like swearing? Or vice-versa, etc.? It quickly gets pretty complex to try and keep everyone happy all the time. As a society, we try to build in a few reasonable boundaries as to what is/isn't acceptable and hope that everyone will stick with them.

Of course, but in crowds of thousands of people, you get wide ranging interpretations of acceptable behaviour. For instance, I've felt embarrassed by a number of incidents watching United this season. The behaviour of some supporters at Crewe, Port Vale and at home to Bradford being cases in point. Indeed I'm pissed off by something or other in the stands almost every game.

In the case of pyrotechnics or other more 'boisterous' forms of support. Having a section for that stuff, or at least one where it's tolerated is entirely workable. It's a moot point though because no club or local authority would allow it.

 

[Tyler Durden]

I've made my position clear if you want to get all mealy mouthed about what you've said or not said that's up to you - anyone who can be bothered can look back and draw there own conclusions. You've consistently sought to belittle the stance of the OP and you've pursued the argument more than anyone else, in terms of a message board that pretty much makes you spokesperson in chief whether you see that or not. I've no idea what the self absorbed stuff on the bottom line is about.

No it just makes me very sarcastic. It's a common trait in my posts I can assure you.

I only expanded on the point when you started with the sanctimonious, borderline vitriolic drivel.

 

[Paulus]

Impressively delusional, enough.

 

[Bladesway]

Why post anything on a forum then? This message board is full of debate, opinions, moaning. What its for surely.

All I don't get is how people can simply dismiss and belittle his initial concerns/rant.

Why, who died and/or got seriously injured and when? Enquiring minds need to know.