Wilder would be our best ever manager in the play-offs

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

Wilder isn't a better manager than Howard Kendall was, Kendall won the fa cup , 2 league titles and European cup winners cup with Everton , and he got athletic Bilbao to 4th in la liga and qualified for uefa cup whilst only being able to sign basque players as he refused to break the tradition of the club, wilder has been great for us but it's blades tinted specs again , go into a bar or supporters club in Everton and make the same statement and time how long it takes them to stop laughing, just for a bit more perspective thats the same number of fa cups klopp won and 1 more league title than klopp won, is wilder also a better manager than klopp ?

Like I said further up the thread, I'm talking specifically about how well each manager has done with Sheff Utd.

Given that Kendall never got us promoted, and Wilder has not only seen us promoted but also a 9th place Prem League finish.. its fair to say Wilder's Blades CV is better.

 

[wak1889]

Like I said further up the thread, I'm talking specifically about how well each manager has done with Sheff Utd.

Given that Kendall never got us promoted, and Wilder has not only seen us promoted but also a 9th place Prem League finish.. its fair to say Wilder's Blades CV is better.

Lol fair enough you can make any argument fit a united centric point of view , ie billy sharp was a better striker than Ian rush because he scored more goals for Sheffield United, jack Robinson is a better centre half than Paul McGrath as Paul McGrath never got promoted with us

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

Lol fair enough you can make any argument fit a united centric point of view , ie billy sharp was a better striker than Ian rush because he scored more goals for Sheffield United, jack Robinson is a better centre half than Paul McGrath as Paul McGrath never got promoted with us

My point is this, and I hope you agree: Wilder is better than 1997 Kendall.

80s Kendall is a different story, just like 80s Rush was a different story, but that's not the Rush we got and that's not the Kendall we got.

As such I believe if we did end up in the play-offs this season, we'd be going into them with our best ever manager (in the play-off era)

If people disagree fair enough, it would be boring if everyone was right like me.

 

[Geordie Blade]

My point is this, and I hope you agree: Wilder is better than 1997 Kendall.

80s Kendall is a different story, just like 80s Rush was a different story, but that's not the Rush we got and that's not the Kendall we got.

As such I believe if we did end up in the play-offs this season, we'd be going into them with our best ever manager (in the play-off era)

If people disagree fair enough, it would be boring if everyone was right like me.

If you’re objectively judging on their results and successes whilst at United, there’s an argument that Hecky is better than Wilder:

Win percentage:
Wilder #1: 47%
Heckingbottom: 50%
Wilder #2: 38%

Promotions:
Wilder: 2 from 3 full seasons (67%)
Heckingbottom: 1 from 1 full season (100%)

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

If you’re objectively judging on their results and successes whilst at United, there’s an argument that Hecky is better than Wilder:

Win percentage:
Wilder #1: 47%
Heckingbottom: 50%
Wilder #2: 38%

Promotions:
Wilder: 2 from 3 full seasons (67%)
Heckingbottom: 1 from 1 full season (100%)

I hope you're just playing devil's advocate here .

 

[dazzlingblade]

If we were to end the season in a play-off spot then Im sure we all agree that Wilder would be the best manager to ever manage us in the Play-Offs.

Wilder is a better manager than Kendall, Warnock, Hecky, Clough, Wilson, Blackwell Thompson and Morgs who have taken us into our previous Play-Off games.

So should we not get an auto spot, I hope that gives you a reason to be more optimistic about the play-offs than usual... JTW signings permitting.

Better than Kendall? I mean Wilder is superb, but............nope


Ignore that, sorry, I just saw your post about 1997 Kendall, it's still say it was debatable though

 

[Irv]

I was confident with Kendall. And if Hutch not got injured I still believe we’d have won.

However, I’d rather not find out. Wilder may well give us an edge over the others…though saying that Warnock had success at them with other clubs.

Whether we make top 2 will be reliant on the next 3 and a half weeks. Both his ability t identify new players and the clubs ability to get them in.
After that I think we are still playing for second, I think Burnley will get stronger going forwards and will be surprised if they lose more than 2 games from here.
We are fighting Leeds. It’s about time they had an injury crisis

What do you see in Burnley that suggests they are going to ‘get stronger’? Not saying I disagree, just wondering.

 

[Geordie Blade]

I hope you're just playing devil's advocate here .

Yes, but it shows how arguments about 'best' can be futile.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

Yes, but it shows how arguments about 'best' can be futile.

You'd have to be an utter moron to just look at win rate and disregard what league those wins took place in though?

 

[Torrix1889]

If we were to end the season in a play-off spot then Im sure we all agree that Wilder would be the best manager to ever manage us in the Play-Offs.

Wilder is a better manager than Kendall, Warnock, Hecky, Clough, Wilson, Blackwell Thompson and Morgs who have taken us into our previous Play-Off games.

So should we not get an auto spot, I hope that gives you a reason to be more optimistic about the play-offs than usual... JTW signings permitting.

The bar is as low as a slugs belly.....

 

[Geordie Blade]

You'd have to be an utter moron to just look at win rate and disregard what league those wins took place in though?

That's fair - a lot of Wilder's were in League 1.

 

[Super Furry Blades]

Better than kendal?
Them red & white specs are doing some spectacular overtime

 

[John Street West Terrace]

Same was said about Warnock and he had previous form for being amazing in playoffs. Not falling for it. Soz.

Was just about to say the same.. re Warnock

 

[John Street West Terrace]

Here is our "big game" record since our last trophy in 1925.
Regard play-off finals and cup semi finals we're currently on an incredibly bad run of 16 (yes SIXTEEN) games without a win.
No wonder many Blades....just accept we've already lost whenever we reach a semi final or play-off final.

FA cup semis and final (run of 10 games without a win)
1928 Lost semi 0-1 to Huddersfield after 2 previous draws
1936 Lost final 0-1 to Arsenal
1961 Lost semi 0-2 to Leicester after 2 previous draws
1993 Lost semi 1-2 to Sheff Wed
2014 Lost semi 3-5 to Hull City (probably the most joyous semifinal in living memory, we were leading at halftime playing really well).
2023 Lost semi 0-3 to Man City

Note: Just before our last cup final win we can so close to taking part in one of the most famous Wembley finals in history.
1923 was the year of the 1st ever cup final played at Wembley with an unofficial crowd of over 150K.
We lost 0-1 to Bolton Wanders in the semi final.

League cup semis and final (2 defeats)
2003 Lost semi 1-2 to Liverpool over 2 legs (conceding a very late goal)
2015 Lost semi 2-3 to Spurs over 2 legs (conceding a very late goal)

Play-off finals (4 defeats and not scoring a goal, even struggling to score penalties)
1997 Lost 0-1 to Crystal Palace (conceding a last minute goal)
2003 Lost 0-3 to Wolves (beat them home and away that season and we missed a penalty)
2009 Lost 0-1 to Burnley
2012 Drew 0-0 to Huddersfield, lost on PENS

Not to mention 5 play off semi final defeats .. think we took over Lincoln & Preston after the Forest loss as having most appearances ( 9 ) in them without winning one

 

[Shadota]

Currently, our best ever manager in the play offs would be a tie, between the various managers who got us to a final. So Kendall, Warnock, Blackwell, Wilson.

Considering this, and the finals those managers led us to, the bar is really not high at all. Winning a play off final, whilst a significant achievement, is not the impossible challenge we have made it appear to be. We've just failed to deliver when it matters:

1997 - utterly garbage match where neither side deserved to win - Palace happened to pull a worldy out of nowhere
2003 - got battered for 45 minutes, made a small attempt at a fightback - nipped in the bud when Brown's penalty was saved
2009 - outplayed for much of the game, especially first half - had a go 2nd half, but fell apart after the red card
2012 - I'd argue this is the worst game of football to be held at the new Wembley thus far. Absolutely awful game, epitomised by Simmo's rugby conversion- I mean penalty

Two of those, if we'd turned up, it was ours for the taking ('97 and '12). The others, we would have made '03 more interesting - I don't see a scenario where we win in '09 though - that Blackwell side was guff, even though we got a play off place.

If we ever reach another play off final, the manager who gets us there just needs to have us deliver a performance of substance, and not just crumble, and that person will be our most successful manager in play offs, win or lose.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

That's fair - a lot of Wilder's were in League 1.

Anywhere else?

 

[mattbianco1]

If we were to end the season in a play-off spot then Im sure we all agree that Wilder would be the best manager to ever manage us in the Play-Offs.

Wilder is a better manager than Kendall, Warnock, Hecky, Clough, Wilson, Blackwell Thompson and Morgs who have taken us into our previous Play-Off games.

So should we not get an auto spot, I hope that gives you a reason to be more optimistic about the play-offs than usual... JTW signings permitting.

I wouldn't like to face Leeds, Burnley or Sunderland in a one-off game at Wembley

 

[wak1889]

Not to mention 5 play off semi final defeats .. think we took over Lincoln & Preston after the Forest loss as having most appearances ( 9 ) in them without winning one

You failed to include 2 fa cup semi finals between the losses to wednesday and hull Newcastle 98 and arsenal 2003 , just to make it worse

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

Currently, our best ever manager in the play offs would be a tie, between the various managers who got us to a final. So Kendall, Warnock, Blackwell, Wilson.

Considering this, and the finals those managers led us to, the bar is really not high at all. Winning a play off final, whilst a significant achievement, is not the impossible challenge we have made it appear to be. We've just failed to deliver when it matters:

1997 - utterly garbage match where neither side deserved to win - Palace happened to pull a worldy out of nowhere
2003 - got battered for 45 minutes, made a small attempt at a fightback - nipped in the bud when Brown's penalty was saved
2009 - outplayed for much of the game, especially first half - had a go 2nd half, but fell apart after the red card
2012 - I'd argue this is the worst game of football to be held at the new Wembley thus far. Absolutely awful game, epitomised by Simmo's rugby conversion- I mean penalty

Two of those, if we'd turned up, it was ours for the taking ('97 and '12). The others, we would have made '03 more interesting - I don't see a scenario where we win in '09 though - that Blackwell side was guff, even though we got a play off place.

If we ever reach another play off final, the manager who gets us there just needs to have us deliver a performance of substance, and not just crumble, and that person will be our most successful manager in play offs, win or lose.

A question regarding 97.. was Spackman really the best CM we had to partner Hutchison? I liked him as a manager but was not a fan of him as a player for us. What were the alternatives?

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

I wouldn't like to face Leeds, Burnley or Sunderland in a one-off game at Wembley

It's Pigs that I'd want.
Sounds like BBD is a done deal, a couple more in of that quality and we become a very different proposition.

 

[Danny_Blade]

It's Pigs that I'd want.
Sounds like BBD is a done deal, a couple more in of that quality and we become a very different proposition.

If we did meet that lot in the PO Final (and IF we beat them) would it be worth it and make up for every failed PO campaign we've had in the past do you think? To beat them lot at Wembley for a place in the Premier League, not to mention how desperate they are the fact they haven't graced it for 25 years?

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

If we did meet that lot in the PO Final (and IF we beat them) would it be worth it and make up for every failed PO campaign we've had in the past do you think? To beat them lot at Wembley for a place in the Premier League, not to mention how desperate they are the fact they haven't graced it for 25 years?

It'd be the single greatest day of my life. No contest.

 

[Geordie Blade]

Anywhere else?

Yes, the Premier League. Both Wilder and Heckingbotton spent the same percentage of their time at United in the Premier League. On average, Heckingbottom's time was spent at a higher level (he didn't spend any time in League 1). So, based on those statistics, it could be argued that Hecky was 'better'.

To repeat: I'm playing Devil's Advocate to show that it's futile trying to prove that someone is 'best'. In reality, I know that Wilder had a tougher job than Heckingbottom, with different resources. But you could make the same arguments about Warnock, Blackwell, etc.

 

[Loco Blade]

Coco the f ing would be the best manager to get us up if they actually did . It’s got to happen at some point surely

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

Yes, the Premier League. Both Wilder and Heckingbotton spent the same percentage of their time at United in the Premier League. On average, Heckingbottom's time was spent at a higher level (he didn't spend any time in League 1). So, based on those statistics, it could be argued that Hecky was 'better'.

To repeat: I'm playing Devil's Advocate to show that it's futile trying to prove that someone is 'best'. In reality, I know that Wilder had a tougher job than Heckingbottom, with different resources. But you could make the same arguments about Warnock, Blackwell, etc.

Thankfully you are playing devil's advocate, but come on man be real.. Wilder had us inches from Europe.

Hecky could never manage that with us. I highly doubt Kendall would have either had we won that play-off final.

IN WILDER WE TRUST

 

[Grizzly blade]

Big strong athletic lads in all positions who will get better the longer they play together. They barely look like conceding

 

[Geordie Blade]

Thankfully you are playing devil's advocate, but come on man be real.. Wilder had us inches from Europe.

Hecky could never manage that with us. I highly doubt Kendall would have either had we won that play-off final.

IN WILDER WE TRUST

I'll say this, irrespective of who's best or not: I think Kendall would have kept us up for more than two seasons. In fairness, it was an easier era in which to stay up.

 

[HighfieldBlade]

If we were to end the season in a play-off spot then...

 

[Foody]

There's two major issues were we to make the playoffs. Firstly we have the worst play off record in the country as a club. Secondly this season we have the worst record against top 6 clubs in the top 6.
This season we seem to have mastered beating most in the league and do so with remarkable consistency, but in the big games our lack of attacking quality has really shown.

 

[Houston_Blade]

If we did meet that lot in the PO Final (and IF we beat them) would it be worth it and make up for every failed PO campaign we've had in the past do you think? To beat them lot at Wembley for a place in the Premier League, not to mention how desperate they are the fact they haven't graced it for 25 years?

It would be shit, we’d be in the PO final as a relegated team with a much higher wage budget and much better players than them. It’s the definition of ‘hiding to nothing’.

We shouldn’t even be in the same stratosphere as those scruffy tramps.