Are we a L2 side?

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

Just looking at peoples idea for our 1st team that Clough should stick with, I am genuinely concerned our squad is not good enough for this league.

If I was to pool players into groups of L1 and L2 standard, which I'm basing this on current ability but also potential to improve, it'd look like this;

L2 Players; Howard, Flynn, Murphy, McGinty, Westlake, Williams, Porter, Ironside, King & Taylor.

L1 Players; Long, Hill, McMahon, Maguire, Doyle, Cuvelier, Baxter, McGinn, Brandy, McFadzean, Miller

Depressing to think we can barely put out a team that is good enough for this decision. There is plenty of depth, but absolutely no quality in it. Since we've been relegated we've needed to cull crap from the squad, which we've done, but then replaced it with just-as-bad or even worse players! Wilson and Weir contributed to this current squad bloated with shite, it's now on Clough to steadily succeed in doing what they failed to do.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Its amazing that we've amassed so much shit. But then again people on here and at the club have readily defended us selling our better players that has cost us promotion (Blackman last year, Beattie a few years back etc) and replacing them with utter shit. So mostly we get what we deserve In My opinion

 

[Fiery Blade]

Some would argue that that your assessment of some of those players a tad optimistic !

 

[blader]

The 11 that took the field yesterday is arguably a L2 side. The stupid thing, is that the 7 sat on the bench probably wouldn't make a L2 side!

 

[grafikhaus]

It's a very good (if extremely worrying) point, Deadly.

Time is still on our side with a new manager, 'massive' investment (?) and the JTW looming.

However, if we did go down it's not out of the question that we may be looking for a new manager for next season. Surely not? Er...

 

[Houso]

I disagree to tell the truth. I think we've got a handful of poor players interspersed with a majority of very good League One players playing very poorly.

There are a number of players we need rid of desperately and who are bringing the rest down. When every now and then reports begin with "Actually one of our better players for once" you know there's something wrong when they retain their places time and time again.

We buy players of whom supporters of their previous clubs will all agree are far too good for this level, who suddenly become shit at this club. Why is this? It's not down to the manager, as it's happened under different bosses.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

I agree with a lot of what Houso is saying but regarding the last part....why aren't the good players playing well for us?....

IMHO it's down to poor preparation during preseason and getting into bad habits. Another change of manager has exacerbated the problem but it will ultimately make things better. Cloughie was never going to turn this team around over night. Most of us knew the squad still needed major surgery even after the two wins.

 

[Jonboy60]

How many on here played pub league standard on a sat/or sun, and thought if I was fitter I could probably play at a higher level than this shit. I give you sufc, attitude and fitness levels dire. UTB

 

[JohnDenver]

I agree with a lot of what Houso is saying but regarding the last part....why aren't the good players playing well for us?....

The culture at the club is screwed-up:

1. Our two best-paid players offer poor leadership and fold under pressure.
2. Poor performers linger at the club and stink up the place.
3. The revolving door of management gives repeated "clean slate" opportunities to players who haven't earned them.
4. Players know that their manager will carry the can for their inadequacy.
5. We pay players handsomely at our level by default - it's not earned by performance.

Not all of the above are easily remedied, but I think the key lies in having example setters. Doyle and Collins need replacing with real leaders and winning characters. The no-hopers need paying-off.

The players we buy at this level will be flawed in either character or ability. They need a core of senior players to marshall them properly.

 

[Bladesway]

We have a squad of utter shit sprinkled with a couple of capable players. Those good enough however don't look fit enough. Put it all together and you have years of crippling under investment putting us exactly where we deserve to be. Thanks Kev.

 

[Guesty]

I don't think this squad is remotely good enough to compete at this level. Given the dross in this league it may be good enough to stay up.

What gets me is that half the bloody squad appears to be mediocre Fullbacks! We have:

Matt Hill (whom I quite like)
Aidy White (whom I haven't seen yet)
Simon Lappin
Jasper Johns
Marcus Williams
Sean McGinty
Darryl Westlake
Tony McMahon

On top of that, our exciting 'proper footballer' signings (Baxter, Cuevelier, Brandy, King) have managed barely 90 good minutes between then.

 

[Hartley Hare]

You can't help but think we are a long way off being a mid table championship side.

Look at Yeovil, bottom now in the championship and they did us in last season.

Premiership in five years is a fantasy dream with these players.

Sorry, but it is true, and there I was thinking we were going to go on a run into play-off contention.

HH

 

[BladeFisher]

I agree with a lot of what Houso is saying but regarding the last part....why aren't the good players playing well for us?....

IMHO it's down to poor preparation during preseason and getting into bad habits. Another change of manager has exacerbated the problem but it will ultimately make things better. Cloughie was never going to turn this team around over night. Most of us knew the squad still needed major surgery even after the two wins.

Well at the moment Morgan has the best record !

The next few games will see what Clough has got. Gillingham is a must win IMO for confidence. We've also go to stop losing away. Well done Morgs. Shewsbury had a garbage run of results prior to yesterday. Bad result for the Blades against a team currently struggling for form.

 

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

I agree with JohnDenver, the hierarchy of the squad is rotten at the top. Take Doyle and Collins, neither have notable achievements in their professional career and offer little in terms of leadership. Our next senior player King, well, that needs no explanation. I believe there is promise within the squad in the form of Long, Maguire, Cuvelier, Baxter, and Miller. But they need effective leadership on the pitch alongside them. No coincidence that in our most successful season in the last 10 years, we had leaders scattered around every position supporting developing players ; Chris Morgan/Craig Short/Dave Unsworth supporting Jags/Bromby/Geary/Armstrong. Shipperley to Kabba & Webber etc.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

The players we buy at this level will be flawed in either character or ability. They need a core of senior players to marshall them properly.

We will need to see what the colour of our money actually is before we will have players like that in the side.

 

[JohnDenver]

We will need to see what the colour of our money actually is before we will have players like that in the side.

Very true, but we could have done better in that regard by buying lower league winners rather than Championship failures.

It's only obvious in retrospect - we as fans don't always know the character of new players until they reveal themselves on the pitch. Collins, Doyle, McMahon and King - I'd not want any of them leading me.

 

[puppet]

I agree with JohnDenver, the hierarchy of the squad is rotten at the top. Take Doyle and Collins, neither have notable achievements in their professional career and offer little in terms of leadership. Our next senior player King, well, that needs no explanation. I believe there is promise within the squad in the form of Long, Maguire, Cuvelier, Baxter, and Miller. But they need effective leadership on the pitch alongside them. No coincidence that in our most successful season in the last 10 years, we had leaders scattered around every position supporting developing players ; Chris Morgan/Craig Short/Dave Unsworth supporting Jags/Bromby/Geary/Armstrong. Shipperley to Kabba & Webber etc.

Totally agree especially with the last part... however the kind of old guard players available nowadays are few and far between and if you appoint younger managers, chances are theyve never bonded with that type of character. Clough snrs masterstroke was going to Dave Mackay who was leaving Spurs having been ready to go out to seed and join Hearts. Worked a dream in the 1960s but that was when 13 or 14 players actually made a first team squad in a season. We even saw ourselves to our detriment, having put Unsworth out to pasture, he managed to secure a squad players job in the top flight (and we all know how that turned out). The chances of us finding players prepared to not do some light training and the odd League Cup performance a season for £10k a week and come down two divisions to make a never that big club bigger again are virtually zero sadly.

 

[sheffielder]

Baxter scored 20 goals last season and in general has been a smash in this division, yet he can't get a game in front of Taylor and Miller (who have no pedigree in this league) and King who doesn't give a fuck. I would play Baxter and Miller.

We have Cuvellier who ripped it up for Walsall in this division last year yet can't even get a game and Lappin starts ahead of him.

Both Brandy and McGinn had good season's last season, Brandy started well here this season and for some reason just blown up and McGinn plays well, yet still gets dropped.

There is something rotten in the club/dressing room, yet everyone seems happy to stick with players who have failed us for the last 2 and a bit seasons. It makes it drives me insane that I come on here and the blame goes on Baxter, Cuvellier, McGinn and Brandy yet the players who cause the most unrest, being McMahon, Collins, Hill, Doyle, Flynn, Porter and King get a free pass or people want to give them yet another try.

This club will continue to fail while this mentality still exists

 

[sheffielder]

I agree with JohnDenver, the hierarchy of the squad is rotten at the top. Take Doyle and Collins, neither have notable achievements in their professional career and offer little in terms of leadership. Our next senior player King, well, that needs no explanation. I believe there is promise within the squad in the form of Long, Maguire, Cuvelier, Baxter, and Miller. But they need effective leadership on the pitch alongside them. No coincidence that in our most successful season in the last 10 years, we had leaders scattered around every position supporting developing players ; Chris Morgan/Craig Short/Dave Unsworth supporting Jags/Bromby/Geary/Armstrong. Shipperley to Kabba & Webber etc.

amen brother

 

[Houso]

Baxter scored 20 goals last season and in general has been a smash in this division, yet he can't get a game in front of Taylor and Miller (who have no pedigree in this league) and King who doesn't give a fuck. I would play Baxter and Miller.

We have Cuvellier who ripped it up for Walsall in this division last year yet can't even get a game and Lappin starts ahead of him.

Both Brandy and McGinn had good season's last season, Brandy started well here this season and for some reason just blown up and McGinn plays well, yet still gets dropped.

There is something rotten in the club/dressing room, yet everyone seems happy to stick with players who have failed us for the last 2 and a bit seasons. It makes it drives me insane that I come on here and the blame goes on Baxter, Cuvellier, McGinn and Brandy yet the players who cause the most unrest, being McMahon, Collins, Hill, Doyle, Flynn, Porter and King get a free pass or people want to give them yet another try.

This club will continue to fail while this mentality still exists

I'd actually include McMahon in that number.

He was adored at Boro and has gone to shit here. Why the buggery has that happened?

There's something rotten at the club and there has been for some time. I'd love to blame Mrs Doyle, but it even pre-dates him.

 

[sheffielder]

I'd actually include McMahon in that number.

He was adored at Boro and has gone to shit here. Why the buggery has that happened?

There's something rotten at the club and there has been for some time. I'd love to blame Mrs Doyle, but it even pre-dates him.

Doyle and Collins are the longest serving professionals still at the club. Mrs Doyle is more to blame than people think. This is the captain who fines players for turning up late even when he arrives in the car park after them.. I know this will sound like one of those things people make up, however that dressing room has a lot of splinters to it and the young and new resent the old and failed. The dressing room has gone up like fireworks quite a few times already this season and maybe Clough needs a few defeats to learn the problem

I thought I had added McMahon to the shit list but he is now in room 101!

 

[Houso]

Sorry, I meant McMahon in the same list as Baxter and Cuvelier who should be doing better given their pedigree.

And you know me Shef, I aint a fan of Mrs Doyle, but like I say, players like Leon Britton pre-date his time at the club...

 

[Harry's Game]

This squad is the worst one we have had since 1980 when we went down to the bottom division, I have seen them all since then and I would take any squad we had between then and now in front of this one and that includes Billy McEwan's side that even Bassett couldn't save.

Make no mistake we are in deep shit, I just hope there really is major funds available for the JTW otherwise I fear the drop.

 

[sheffielder]

Sorry, I meant McMahon in the same list as Baxter and Cuvelier who should be doing better given their pedigree.

And you know me Shef, I aint a fan of Mrs Doyle, but like I say, players like Leon Britton pre-date his time at the club...

How can you blame Britton for what is happening now?

 

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

Doyle and Collins are the longest serving professionals still at the club. Mrs Doyle is more to blame than people think. This is the captain who fines players for turning up late even when he arrives in the car park after them.. I know this will sound like one of those things people make up, however that dressing room has a lot of splinters to it and the young and new resent the old and failed. The dressing room has gone up like fireworks quite a few times already this season

If this is true, then why have Wilson, Weir and Morgan tolerated it for so long? I dislike Doyles presence at our club and shall celebrate when he leaves United. He is the type of mouthy, talentless gobshite you love to see play against you because his embarassing behaviour oozes defeat. Recently the same applies to McMahon who is another finger pointer when we concede a goal.

If NC is going to succeed, he needs to stamp an authority immediately and if I was him i'd do it by transfer listing Brandy and dropping King. It would send a clear message to everyone; no more bollocks.

 

[sheffielder]

If this is true, then why have Wilson, Weir and Morgan tolerated it for so long? I dislike Doyles presence at our club and shall celebrate when he leaves United. He is the type of mouthy, talentless gobshite you love to see play against you because his embarassing behaviour oozes defeat. Recently the same applies to McMahon who is another finger pointer when we concede a goal.

If NC is going to succeed, he needs to stamp an authority immediately and if I was him i'd do it by transfer listing Brandy and dropping King. It would send a clear message to everyone; no more bollocks.

It wouldn't change anything because King and Brandy weren't here last year when these players started failing. The message from Clough needs to be bigger and send some shock waves

 

[Houso]

How can you blame Britton for what is happening now?

I blame Britton for what now?

I was saying that Britton is an example of player excellent elsewhere, but not reaching his potential here. Like Baxter, McMahon, Cuvelier, Murphy etc.

 

[Droppingwell]

This squad is the worst one we have had since 1980 when we went down to the bottom division, I have seen them all since then and I would take any squad we had between then and now in front of this one and that includes Billy McEwan's side that even Bassett couldn't save.

Make no mistake we are in deep shit, I just hope there really is major funds available for the JTW otherwise I fear the drop.

I couldn't agree more, I started going in '77 just in time for the decline and it is the worst squad since the 1980 team. If we can not bring in major reinforcements in January I really fear for us....and to be honest even if we can we still have to hope they settle and produce the goods very quickly.

 

[sheffielder]

I blame Britton for what now?

I was saying that Britton is an example of player excellent elsewhere, but not reaching his potential here. Like Baxter, McMahon, Cuvelier, Murphy etc.

Ah sorry, see what you mean now. So what we are both probably saying is we could take it back to when Morgan got injured and never played again?

 

[bladesadviser]

I can't believe how bad we can make players. Other clubs, even those near the top would bite our hand off if say we offered Baxter or Cuvelier to them on loan. I would argue even Taylor, Murphy or Brandy would end up doing well at another club.