Playing from the back

[Revolution]

This is what happens in football. A team, Man City in this case, gets success playing a certain way, and every team tries to copy them, albeit using inferior players. On Sunday, Wes, JLT and Anel lived very dangerously on quite a few occasions. To be honest, it bores me silly and I'd much rather see us using our strengths and not just be sheep.

See also resting your best players and multi club ownership. Both done well by the richest club in world football, done less well by everyone else.

 

[Bladesman]

I don't think we will always play out from the back but I think it was a deffo tactic Vs West ham. And I could see why.

West ham sit deep. Booting it long would have resulted in just giving back possession. And largely it worked.

We controlled most of the match with the ball. And whilst a draw is probably fair we looked decent with the ball.

We had 57% possession which is high for us this season.

Wilder wants us to retain the ball better. Hecky was quite happy to give up possession but we lacked the quality to win the ball back in opposition half at this level. In the Championship we could win the ball back better further up the pitch when we pressed.

Actually it was quite reassuring last night as it did show the gulf between PL and Championship. Chelsea underporming somewhat and Boro who probably should gone up last season yet Chelsea still managed to steamroller Boro without too much hassle.

 

[Gin&Juice]

Most boring team Bert has seen at The Lane this season.... Man City.

Technically brilliant but boring.

100%. I assume Bert went to the semi-final. It was a snooze fest. Superior everywhere. They completely nullified us. Yeah, great for results. But I’d be bored having to watch that every week. Fans love the challenge, or being able to challenge back. Neither of those are applicable to supporting Man City, or supporting a team playing Man City.

 

[Bladesman]

I am fully in favour of playing out from the back but it doesn't have to be from every goal kick or every time the keeper is in position. What I can't abide is the goal kepper hanging onto the ball or waiting to take the free kick w, with two defenders either side and waiting for the opposition to get into shape. When this happens and the ball is played short , those receiving it are immediately under pressure, they have to move the ball quickly which puts more pressure on the receiver , this contiues until somebody either hoofs it or loses it. It happens with all teams but more frequently with those who have lower quality players.

It's only worth doing it if you are good at it and you can create the space in the middle of the park you are looking for. If you are just going to panic and launch it anyway then there isn't much point.

 

[Badger Blade]

Play out from the back if you have the players to do it.

We don't and Middlesbrough against Premier League opposition sure as hell didn't either. Different kettle of fish in the Championship against some of our local rivals who can't trap a bag of cement between them.

As things currently stand, I'd sooner hoof it, play a bit of percentage football and focus on winning the second ball then start playing the ball around where there is less chance of conceding, compared to passing it straight to the opposition from your own 18 yard box like Matt Clarke did.

 

[Rochdaleblade]

Has there ever been a goal scored by a team passing it's way out from a goal kick?

 

[dexter101]

I understand its a genuine tactic that if you have the players, it works, however it just bores me to death. I was pace to football, not 20-30 passes backwards, forwards, sideways.

I never got the attraction of Barca in the peak tiki taka days.

 

[Digs blade]

Those Swansea matches at the Lane were bizarre .

What’s the saying about doing the same thing over and over despite it going wrong?

I didn’t know whether to laugh or feel sorry for them

 

[Ginger Gnome]

Has there ever been a goal scored by a team passing it's way out from a goal kick?

Quite a few by Allison just lumping it up front, but none of the media dare call Liverpool a long ball team so it counts as a visionary pass from the back.

Teams do sometimes retain possession well and build from their own box to create a goal or scoring chance but there's a clear distinction between playing from the back, passing around the back and pissing around at the back.

Few teams are actually good at the first one, playing the first pass inside their own area and gradually moving up the pitch into the attacking third.
Sides like Man Utd think they're good at it but rarely actually play out from the back, they just aimlessly pass it around in their own half before going backwards again, while the other side sits in their own half letting them have as much possession as they like because there's no threat at all but if you press them, there's a chance of a goal because Onana is bobbins.
Most sides that think they do it don't do any playing out at all, the keeper passes it to a centre back who will try to pass to a full back if he's ambitious but probably just pass to the other centre back, who by this point is starting to get pressed so passes back to the keeper who repeats the cycle in increasingly smaller triangles back towards their own goal before someone either fucks it up or just lumps it clear and gives up possession anyway.

It's a good tactic if there's actual ambition and ability to progress the ball into midfield from it, if you never get it much outside your own penalty area it's a horrible tactic that puts even more immediate pressure on than just kicking it to halfway and hoping you win the ball.

 

[sufcboy95]

It’s fashionable thing to do at the minute, and every single young coach is trying to do the same thing.
Amazed that people are praising Kompany for sticking to his style out of principle even though it’ll get them relegated.

 

[Nearly Jimmy Hagan]

100%. I assume Bert went to the semi-final. It was a snooze fest. Superior everywhere. They completely nullified us. Yeah, great for results. But I’d be bored having to watch that every week. Fans love the challenge, or being able to challenge back. Neither of those are applicable to supporting Man City, or supporting a team playing Man City.

I said exactly the same to City supporting mates & work colleagues, it’s boring & I know they’re winners but I honestly couldn’t watch that every week. The expectation generally makes for a subdued atmosphere at the Etihad, it’s like the novelty has worn off. I was at both our games with them this season & at Wembley last April & you just can’t get the ball off them which makes it like a training session & boring. I looked around me at Wembley in the 2nd half & a lot of fans were checking their phones seemingly bored to distraction.

 

[Gin&Juice]

I said exactly the same to City supporting mates & work colleagues, it’s boring & I know they’re winners but I honestly couldn’t watch that every week. The expectation generally makes for a subdued atmosphere at the Etihad, it’s like the novelty has worn off. I was at both our games with them this season & at Wembley last April & you just can’t get the ball off them which makes it like a training session & boring. I looked around me at Wembley in the 2nd half & a lot of fans were checking their phones seemingly bored to distraction.

It was that or the coked up ones who thought we should be laying a glove on them. Not even established PL teams do that.

 

[nopigfansintown]

It depends entirely on your personnel and the oppositions personnel. The best example of that is Guardiola adapting his tactics when they as Liverpool would batter them when playing out(especially at Anfield). If he has to adapt with 30 World class players and a baked in style of play, what chance the rest of us? United actually found a unique way of doing this with the "overlapping centre backs". That was one of it's strengths.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

100%. I assume Bert went to the semi-final. It was a snooze fest. Superior everywhere. They completely nullified us. Yeah, great for results. But I’d be bored having to watch that every week. Fans love the challenge, or being able to challenge back. Neither of those are applicable to supporting Man City, or supporting a team playing Man City.

Come on, not one of us would be bored watching any style of football if we won doubles, trebles and quadruples.

 

[Bladesman]

Those Swansea matches at the Lane were bizarre .

What’s the saying about doing the same thing over and over despite it going wrong?

I didn’t know whether to laugh or feel sorry for them

My Swansea mate likes Russell Martin as well.

I said to him that yes he has a way he wants his teams to play but you do have to have the players with ability to play that style. Swansea had or still have very players that can play it out of from back well.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I went to a non -league match last night. Constantly playing out from the back. Perilous to say the least

Non-league football has changed over the years, most lads joining now have academy backgrounds and will have been taught to play this way. The problem is that not all will have done.

 

[Snowflake]

Has there ever been a goal scored by a team passing it's way out from a goal kick?

Many if you watch the top clubs, but very few if any by us !

 

[Gin&Juice]

Come on, not one of us would be bored watching any style of football if we won doubles, trebles and quadruples.

Similar to how City fans felt. It would’ve been fucking amazing the first few years. By now it would be boring? id only be looking forward to 2/3 games + CL a season. It’s getting too much Old Firm, just expected to win every game. It must get tiresome. Plus City have never been a Big club, in the sense of Man U etc. So their whole history of Maine Rd, similar to what we have has become a sanitised, tourist event. I’m sure for us it would do us wonders off the pitch as well, but i’d be so bored.

 

[Nearly Jimmy Hagan]

Similar to how City fans felt. It would’ve been fucking amazing the first few years. By now it would be boring? id only be looking forward to 2/3 games + CL a season. It’s getting too much Old Firm, just expected to win every game. It must get tiresome. Plus City have never been a Big club, in the sense of Man U etc. So their whole history of Maine Rd, similar to what we have has become a sanitised, tourist event. I’m sure for us it would do us wonders off the pitch as well, but i’d be so bored.

Most City fans I know focus on their games with ManU, Liverpool, Arsenal, etc & CL, the rest of us are cannon fodder & expected to be easily beaten with 80% possession & nearly 1,000 pass completion. Great stats & team but I just find it heavily one sided & therefore boring.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Has there ever been a goal scored by a team passing it's way out from a goal kick?

Not from a goal kick but any excuse to post this goal, we wouldn’t have scored it if Henderson would have hoofed it:

 

[Snowflake]

Not from a goal kick but any excuse to post this goal, we wouldn’t have scored it if Henderson would have hoofed it:

Yes we might ! Long hoof, flick on from Lundstrum and McG slots it home ????

 

[Frank the tank]

For Carrick and .Martin read kompany
It's all very well playing out from the back.and beating the press in the Championship when you have the quicker more athletic and technically gifted players who are comfortable receiving the ball in tight spaces but when you step up to the prem and the opposition players are more athletic ,faster and close you down before you get chance to think and you're trying to beat them at their own game it's not so clever
You need to adapt or you are going right back where you came from

 

[JackSUFC]

Has there ever been a goal scored by a team passing it's way out from a goal kick?

One midweek game under Jokanovic we were trying it all game and looked hopeless. Some bloke behind me was going barmy.

The next attempt, we genuinely play it out, beat the press, get forward in numbers and score.

The bloke took the piss-taking afterwards well in fairness.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I'd love to see the stats that back up the thinking. You can't go a weekend without seeing two or three goals from sides passing it about at the back. I wonder how many goals come from a long kick?

Do you not think managers and coaches have the stats? The idea that they do it just to copy Man City is laughable. If it's so inferior, why aren't there teams in any division playing old school direct football and getting promoted?

Stevenage and Wrexham are doing well this season playing hoofball, can't think of many others.

 

[AWetFlannel]

They were more interesting at the Lane with Haaland than they were at the Etihad. His presence at least encourages them to lift the ball off the ground.

The whole City thing leaves me cold. A team full of hugely expensive players holding onto the ball for ever against teams who have basically no chance of beating them despite being in the same league. Is this what people want to see? I will always watch it when they play us but if it's another team outside the top few you can forget it.

re playing out from the back generally, there's a time and a place. I'm happy for United to do it if they don't get themselves in trouble repeatedly. If you can't beat the press, you are an idiot for doing it. See Russell Martin's Swansea at the Lane. If Soton go up he's going to do the same in the PL and get ripped apart.

Had Russel Martin made his team, built to play out from the back for years, go direct against us at the Lane presumably you think they'd have done much better?

Baffles me that people think this despite watching us batter plenty of mid table teams playing with other tactics.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Those Swansea matches at the Lane were bizarre .

What’s the saying about doing the same thing over and over despite it going wrong?

I didn’t know whether to laugh or feel sorry for them

They finished higher than their wage bill predicted they would and their manager got poached by a parachute team.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Do you no think manager and coaches have the stats? The idea that they do it just to copy Man City is laughable. If it's so inferior, why aren't there teams in any division playing old school direct football and getting promoted?

Stevenage and Wrexham are doing well this season playing hoofball, can't think of many others.

I just want to see the stats as it's clearly the in way of playing but I haven't. You'll see it clearly explained how xg and just having a shot from 20 yards+ isn't worth it and corners are pretty pointless etc but I have yet to see just why sides are happy to risk giving away easy goals.

 

[CornwallBlade]

One of the biggest issues with the tactic is that it requires a GK with real footballing skills. Very few have so the pressure ends up on the poor suckers on the end of hospital passes. The best teams that press high will always look to get the ball played back to the keeper and pressure him into a cock up

 

[Revolution]

Had Russel Martin made his team, built to play out from the back for years, go direct against us at the Lane presumably you think they'd have done much better?

Baffles me that people think this despite watching us batter plenty of mid table teams playing with other tactics.

I think they'd have been better off by not trying the same thing every single time when it failed time and time again. They will have known about how we played. They could have had a plan B to counter us if they couldn't beat the press. They got themselves into trouble time and time again.

They didn't have to turn into Cambridge United circa 1991, but a bit of variety would not have gone amiss.

Coaches should never just sit there and lose. That's what Martin did. He made no attempt to address the problem he was faced with.

 

[bornablade]

I recall an FA Cup 3rd round tie between Arsenal and Leeds. The Leeds goalie Meslier (his debut) had the ability to pass the ball 40 yards with accuracy, almost Curriesque.

If he felt uncomfortable playing from the back his only alternative wasn't just lumping it up to Bamford.

He was spraying balls to different areas of the pitch all straight to players feet.

(I hate to admit it but Leeds were superb that night)