Managerial failings once more..

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I think that in the situation that we were in, they could have done something at least brought some energy to a tiring side playing against 10 men
Fleck couldn't bring energy to a mobile phone if he plugged in the charger.

I was glad we didn't make any substitutions for the sake of it as we often seem to get worse rather than better and everyone was doing their job well. There was maybe a case for putting Osula on when McAtee had to go off but otherwise sticking with what we had made sense. Brighton doing a double sub straight after going down to 10 men ruined them as their fresher players were worse than the ones being replaced.
 

I'll ignore the negative shitting on our options, and just leave this - but what if you leave Archer on and, because he's knackered, he never gets into the position to take the chance in the first place?
50/50 init, I'd not say it's obviously the right decision to leave Archer on, but to call it awful management is over the top, and to not understand the thought process is mind boggling.
 
Fleck couldn't bring energy to a mobile phone if he plugged in the charger.

I was glad we didn't make any substitutions for the sake of it as we often seem to get worse rather than better and everyone was doing their job well. There was maybe a case for putting Osula on when McAtee had to go off but otherwise sticking with what we had made sense. Brighton doing a double sub straight after going down to 10 men ruined them as their fresher players were worse than the ones being replaced.
That’s fine and your opinion. We’ll never know now as he never made a change and we didn’t win
 
I would still make a change during the break. That first half was minging. We don’t know how to attack and we’re so so so gutless.
I would also make a change during the break, someone who could come in and clear out the old legs for next season, someone with a plan and with no loyalties to the old guard.
 
Don’t you agree with them being fortunate goals? Were papering over the cracks

Papering over the cracks it may well be, but to be fair, the majority of fans knew our fate before we even kicked off this season and as for the fortunate goals, who cares? doesn’t every team in every league get fortunate goals? Man City against Chelsea just now, the best team in Europe, just as an example?

The plain facts are, we have a sub Premier League squad (not Heckys fault) ravaged by injuries (arguably not Heckys fault)

Burnley finished about 10 points above us in the Championship. I think they’ve spent more money than us, haven’t “sold” their best players and yet guess what? We are actually above them in the League

Keep going Hecky. It ain’t over until the fat lady sings
 
Papering over the cracks it may well be, but to be fair, the majority of fans knew our fate before we even kicked off this season and as for the fortunate goals, who cares? doesn’t every team in every league get fortunate goals? Man City against Chelsea just now, the best team in Europe, just as an example?

The plain facts are, we have a sub Premier League squad (not Heckys fault) ravaged by injuries (arguably not Heckys fault)

Burnley finished about 10 points above us in the Championship. I think they’ve spent more money than us, haven’t “sold” their best players and yet guess what? We are actually above them in the League

Keep going Hecky. It ain’t over until the fat lady sings
We knew our fate so let's just let Hecky take us down with miserly tactics and not make a go of it?
The first half yesterday was one of the worst coached halves of football I've ever seen us produce there was no plan and players didn't understand their role. Getting a few points under this inept manager just shows what this lot could actually get under someone who is proactive and organised and uses players to their strengths.
 
We knew our fate so let's just let Hecky take us down with miserly tactics and not make a go of it?
The first half yesterday was one of the worst coached halves of football I've ever seen us produce there was no plan and players didn't understand their role. Getting a few points under this inept manager just shows what this lot could actually get under someone who is proactive and organised and uses players to their strengths.
The manager, whose stats in the Championship are possibly second to no one since he took over from Slav, doesn’t suddenly become a bad manager. Yes he’s made mistakes and will continue to do so. He’s playing with the cards he’s been dealt. The squad just isn’t good enough or strong enough to compete in this league, just as Luton and Burnley, the other promoted sides are finding out.

All about opinions buddy
 
Didn’t realise Midge Ure was a Blade - means nothing to me
 
Anyone able to inject the required energy that we are missing.... It isn't only about attacking ability is it? It's also about damage limitation.

When the opposition make 3-5 changes, suddenly the tired legs that we have are just about starting the game again. They are up against a whole new wave of fresh legs and energy, which I feel is a huge contributing reason to conceding late goals.
If we'd brought on a few kids for their energy, we'd have lost the match because of their lack of experience and quality.

Various people still complain regularly about subs. Very odd as we barely have anyone on the bench.
 

Can't believe the amount of people calling for early subs from yesterday's bench. It's baffling... our bench currently is dreadful! Fresh legs don't equal Premier League ability. Larouchi can run fast but can't defend to save his life from what we've seen. Traore tries his heart out but is weak and ineffective. Osula is big and strong but insanely inexperienced and doesn't really know where to put himself. Fleck at least has some nous at this level but is a shadow of his former self and is so behind the pace at this level now it's embarrassing. Lowe just coming back from injury and was slated for his performances before that. Brooks again with very limited experience. Slimane we've barely seen so who knows if he can really do it at this level or not? He looked OK when he came in but hardly a game changer. Osborn, who people love to slag off for not being "the answer" (seriously, who is from our current patched up squad?), but actually will always generally guarantee effort and reliability albeit without setting the world on fire.

Why would you a) want to us use five of these players and b) whack them on early in place of players who may be tiring but still potentially have far more chance of positively impacting our performance?

When our bench is stronger then yes, let's see some earlier subs, but seriously, from these lot??
 
weve taken a punt on players such as larrouchi slimane traore and souza and their clearly all not premier league standard but although i do think hecky is out of his depth at this level hes been dealt a shit hand by abdullah you cant survive in the modern premier league by doing things on a shoestring
 
Can't believe the amount of people calling for early subs from yesterday's bench. It's baffling... our bench currently is dreadful! Fresh legs don't equal Premier League ability.

Completely irrelevant. The only question is whether they can contribute more to the game in the remainder of it than the player they are replacing.
 
We were comfortable after the red then OG mcburnie (that's what I call him anyway) tucked away his chance meaning a hard to get point was likely, we still had chances to win it, but never looked like conceding, no problem with the subs made, and osborn led to the red card anyway so.

Think the manager got it spot on, we over commit and thier quality would make us pay... Good away point that, happy for the travelling fans..
 
We're not papering over any cracks.

Most of us know that our players aren't good enough for the Premier League.

That's not their fault and all we can ask is that they give everything in every game and pick up points when they can.

The same goes for the manager, it wouldn't matter what subs he made the players still wouldn't be good enough, and anyone that thinks we can compete by bringing kids and inexperienced players on is living in cloud cuckoo land.

The last two games have yielded four points from two teams with much better players than us so I simply say well done to all involved.
This 'we aren't good enough' bollocks is a bit boring now. We have some good players in this side, certainly more than capable of playing a semi passing style. We are playing prime Warnock away from home ball, even at home, but without the big targetman to punt it to. It's fucking daft.

Great point yesterday yes, but as I said it's 3 spawny goals on the bounce, we aren't actually creating much at all. That needs to change, and if we stop punting it upfield every time we get it we might be able to.
 
Can't believe the amount of people calling for early subs from yesterday's bench. It's baffling... our bench currently is dreadful! Fresh legs don't equal Premier League ability. Larouchi can run fast but can't defend to save his life from what we've seen. Traore tries his heart out but is weak and ineffective. Osula is big and strong but insanely inexperienced and doesn't really know where to put himself. Fleck at least has some nous at this level but is a shadow of his former self and is so behind the pace at this level now it's embarrassing. Lowe just coming back from injury and was slated for his performances before that. Brooks again with very limited experience. Slimane we've barely seen so who knows if he can really do it at this level or not? He looked OK when he came in but hardly a game changer. Osborn, who people love to slag off for not being "the answer" (seriously, who is from our current patched up squad?), but actually will always generally guarantee effort and reliability albeit without setting the world on fire.

Why would you a) want to us use five of these players and b) whack them on early in place of players who may be tiring but still potentially have far more chance of positively impacting our performance?

When our bench is stronger then yes, let's see some earlier subs, but seriously, from these lot??
If the player they're replacing isn't PL quality, does it really matter if they aren't too?

We are always dead on our feet after 70 mins. As long as the player coming on can actually run we are probably in a much better position bringing them on than leaving on the tired player.

Yesterday is a bit of an outlier as they were down to 10.
 
The manager, whose stats in the Championship are possibly second to no one since he took over from Slav, doesn’t suddenly become a bad manager. Yes he’s made mistakes and will continue to do so. He’s playing with the cards he’s been dealt. The squad just isn’t good enough or strong enough to compete in this league, just as Luton and Burnley, the other promoted sides are finding out.

All about opinions buddy

If you look at the promotion season, results were great but performances were almost always unconvincing
and in virtually every game we had 15 minute spells where, for some reason, we couldn't string 2 or 3 passes together and we were under the cosh.
I expected Hecky to make reference to this in his post match interviews or work on the lack of composure in training but nothing changed.
Last season we also had this knack of parking the bus for the last 20 minutes of most games and booting it clear straight back to the opposition.
So the current style of play this season isn't unexpected really.

I sit with a few older/ calmer/ fairly knowledgable gents on the Kop.
We regularly can't understand the tactics and see errors BUT we often laugh, because it tends to work, so Hecky must know more than us.
We sometimes say that maybe Hecky's tactics is to deliberately look clueless then the opposition become complacent and we take advantage 2nd half.

This squad's easily good enough to compete, every Championship level club should be able to compete against PL opposition.
When I say compete I'm taking performance wise, not results wise. Even when we were in league 1 with Nigel Clough as manager whenever
we played PL clubs we still competed. The Warnock and Wilder relegation sides always competed well even in the PL relegation season.
In every home match, even when we played the likes of Liverpool and Man Utd, we gave them a tough game, had plenty of attacks and a few chances.

Also if you watch any Burnley and Luton game, you'll see they are competing far better than us.
These teams go out every match set up to win, they have plenty of attacks every match and give it a go. It's their results that are poor.

Mentioned this before, in defence of Hecky he would probably say
"Look, if you want us to play like Burnley, I can adopt the Vincent Kompany philosophy of playing nice passing possession football
and being attack minded making sure we have plenty of men forward when we attack"

"However will the majority of our fans be impressed when we're playing well taking the game to the opposition
or will then just ignore the performance and focus on the result. Agree Burnley look a decent team but they are now bottom of the league"

Hence Hecky is taking a pragmatic approach, find alternative ways to pick up points
It's not pretty but is proving effective, so even though all the signs look concerning.
You can't really argue, picking up 4 points from Wolves and Brighton is an excellent return and offers optimism.
 
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If the player they're replacing isn't PL quality, does it really matter if they aren't too?

We are always dead on our feet after 70 mins. As long as the player coming on can actually run we are probably in a much better position bringing them on than leaving on the tired player.

Yesterday is a bit of an outlier as they were down to 10.
Correct, some are blaming an injury crisis yet we're playing players into the ground every weekend when they are dead on their feet. Even keeping clearly injured players on longer than necessary (souza yesterday, McBurnie the other week) and then potentially losing them for longer periods.
I've never known a manager to just have pre determined subs unless reacting to an injury and stick to the same game plan every single game, he might as well just tell them what to do on Friday and then have the weekend off.
 
The manager, whose stats in the Championship are possibly second to no one since he took over from Slav, doesn’t suddenly become a bad manager. Yes he’s made mistakes and will continue to do so. He’s playing with the cards he’s been dealt. The squad just isn’t good enough or strong enough to compete in this league, just as Luton and Burnley, the other promoted sides are finding out.

All about opinions buddy
The manager in the last year had a generational player who was his entire plan B, not breaking through? Kick it to iliman enough times and he will score
 
The manager in the last year had a generational player who was his entire plan B, not breaking through? Kick it to iliman enough times and he will score

Agree, reminded me of the late 80's Argentina team, they used to do the same when they had Maradona,
who could score goals by himself, often DM didn't need his team mates to help him score.

Again think it's important to offer counter arguments to defend Hecky.
This season the players look like they met up for the 1st time a few days ago, which suggests the manager must be at fault.
However his pre-season preparations was a total disaster (which generally wasn't his fault).
Feels like the players aren't as fit as in previous seasons, also the new players have been thrown straight in, sink or swim.
Normally there would be a pre-set midfield system.
So new players just slot into the role but players like Souza, Hamer etc are learning on the job, which isn't ideal. Also the injuries have been horrendous, so there is a valid school of thought that Hecky is struggling this season but in the circumstances he's doing OK.

Think he's earned the right to be given at least a few more games.
Let's see how we cope against Bournmouth and Burnley then review things? hope he succeeds and continues the upturn in results.
 

This 'we aren't good enough' bollocks is a bit boring now.

Yep it’s a load of shite, we are more than capable of making a real go of it to finish 4th bottom with more progressive tactics and giving it a real go. Each game now you have those that seem to have no clue about football or tactically what would they do to try and change it, all they want to do is tell us how shite we are and that we are down already.

Every single match day thread is riddled with “the players are just not good enough” … when someone mentions making a sub, “who would you have brought on?” as though there was literally no alternative because they are all shite… and then of course no thread would be complete without old faithful, “Pep wouldn’t do any better with these players” 🙄
 

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