A rudderless ship

[Champagneblade]

This season has been far worse than the COVID season under CW. At least we looked like we were in games. CW also gets stick for his signings that year, but the current signings look no better.

I know, at least during covid, about 30,000+ had the option of switching the tv off and going for a walk.

Now they've got to stay there and watch!

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

I know, at least during covid, about 30,000+ had the option of switching the tv off and going for a walk.

Now they've got to stay there and watch!

Cant believe i watched all that covid season.. then again nothing else to do!

 

[Sheffsteel]

Call me a wet wipe but my position is that we needed to sign a lot more players than we did in order to have a fair chance. And the board made it clear in advance the budget is low. It's not exactly a secret given ten months ago we were under embargo.

We need to pull out a few miracle results and then find money I don't think we have in January. I don't see that happening.

I'm not saying accepting our fate feels good, but I'm also not fantasising that Wilder would be a panacea. It's not like he's recreated his success after leaving us.

Agree but we've seen Wilder can perform miracles with players no better than the ones we have.
If Wilder has success after he left there's no way we'd get him.
We need a temporary cheap option, this can only be someone our of favour...so there's a chance Wilder would accept, we have nothing to lose.

Find it kind of perverse that many of our fans blame the ownership
but when the tanker is now edging to the rocks.....most normal fans call for the owners to act and at least try to rescue the situation.
However for some weird reason...I've seen comments like it doesn't matter how the players perform we need to keep Hecky for a few years.
Don't think I've seen such loyalty in the history of the game when the manager and players can perform how they like, they could lose 6-0 every match
not even bother trying and for some of our fans "it's OK" because incredibly some are saying we don't belong here.

However when we're on less than 10 points at Xmas the same fans will be slagging off the owner.

Most fans expected us to struggle but no one expected us to perform this badly where as unlike every other promoted club we can't even compete.
I'll make a prediction, more performances like the Man Utd 1st half and Hecky will stay, even if we lose.
However if we're outlclassed when paying Wolves and Bournemouth and also lose then the fanbase will turn and wouldn't surprise me if Wilder returns.
Don't think Wilder will save us but we'll play like the 1st half against Man Utd virtually every match, and we'll easily better the low points record.

 

[Sheffsteel]

This season has been far worse than the COVID season under CW. At least we looked like we were in games. CW also gets stick for his signings that year, but the current signings look no better.

That's the bench mark for me too.

When Wilder was manager in the relegation season we competed really well, on first sight many of our matches were contested by 2 evenly matches teams. The issue for Wilders team was scoring goals, general play was still excellent but we just couldn't score and never looked like scoring
so we seemed to lose loads of game 0-1.

However this season reminds me of when we were a league 1 side under Nigel Adkins and we'd draw a Premier League team in the cup.
We've generally looked miles off PL level, in fact we don't even look Championship standard, think we'd be bottom half this season under Hecky.
In general we're starting games in damage limitation mode, it's as though non of the players believe they should be on the same field as the opposition.

However maybe there is a glimmer of hope, because 1st half against Man Utd reminded me of a Wilder team, we went for it, plenty of positive attacking play, decent passing too, just lacking a bit of quality in front of goal but overall we looked the better team 1st half.

If Hecky can replicate that form going forward....then he stays for me...but suspect that was a one off.
Think the results and performances against fellow relegation rivals Wolves and Bournmouth games will decide Hecky's fate.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Agree but we've seen Wilder can perform miracles with players no better than the ones we have.
If Wilder has success after he left there's no way we'd get him.
We need a temporary cheap option, this can only be someone our of favour...so there's a chance Wilder would accept, we have nothing to lose.

Find it kind of perverse that many of our fans blame the ownership
but when the tanker is now edging to the rocks.....most normal fans call for the owners to act and at least try to rescue the situation.
However for some weird reason...I've seen comments like it doesn't matter how the players perform we need to keep Hecky for a few years.
Don't think I've seen such loyalty in the history of the game when the manager and players can perform how they like, they could lose 6-0 every match
not even bother trying and for some of our fans "it's OK" because incredibly some are saying we don't belong here.

However when we're on less than 10 points at Xmas the same fans will be slagging off the owner.

Most fans expected us to struggle but no one expected us to perform this badly where as unlike every other promoted club we can't even compete.
I'll make a prediction, more performances like the Man Utd 1st half and Hecky will stay, even if we lose.
However if we're outlclassed when paying Wolves and Bournemouth and also lose then the fanbase will turn and wouldn't surprise me if Wilder returns.
Don't think Wilder will save us but we'll play like the 1st half against Man Utd virtually every match, and we'll easily better the low points record.

Wilder didn’t have success after ensuring our relegation. That’s what non believers are basing their opinions on, not long winded paragraphs of what ifs.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Wilder didn’t have success after ensuring our relegation. That’s what non believers are basing their opinions on, not long winded paragraphs of what ifs.

Very few managers in the game have ever had success at every club they've been to.

Initially the Boro fans were really impressed with his impact regards open attacking playing style.
Think it went downhill for him when the rumours said he was going to leave Boro to manage Burnley and he refused to throw cold water over it.
Don't think Boro fans will ever forgive him for seemingly courting interest from other clubs.

Watford fans never took to him....but don't think it was a good fit....was always going to be a bit of a poisoned chalice there.

For the Prince it's all about finances, he'd have to pay off Hecky's contract and as he's hoping to sell the club don't think
there's any way he'll show ambition splashing the cash on an expensive manager and/or giving out a long contract planning for the long term.
Instead you suspect the Prince will either keep Hecky or offer someone a low paid 8 month contract with a massive staying up bonus.
Also you suspect the Prince would want to keep McCall and Lester.

The only manager options that fit the bill of being a cheap option and willing to work with McCall and Lester are probably Warnock or Wilder.
Surely both would jump at the chance of having a go in the Premier League.
Think Warnock would instantly make us hard to beat but it wouldn't be pretty where as I believe, with Wilder almost every game would be like the Man Utd 1st half where we give it a go and if we lose we go down fighting giving full effort. However still think we'd be relegated with either option.

The massive downside for Wilder (and it's the same for Hecky too) is the last 20 minutes of every game we have a massive unsurmountable disadvantage. Due to the new 5 subs from 7 rule, most PL can bring on numerous fresh legs of PL quality. Where as our back up players are probably not even Championship standard. So even if we play an all out attacking Wilder style and are 2-0 up a half time.
It's likely to all go pear shaped when our players tire and the opponents bring on half a team of fresh players for the last 20 minutes.
Hecky most look at his subs bench, glance at the opposition subs bench and burst into tears, it's no contest.

If neither of them are interested then by default we keep Hecky and have little choice but to support him.
At least Hecky seems to have most of the fans on side, so it's not turned nasty yet.

 

[bornablade]

I can see it happening......

Wilder appointed. He has the good fortune of Bash, Egan, Anel, George, RND all declared fit. We start picking up points and suddenly he's the Messiah again.

 

[FlamingLip]

Couple of unrelated questions

• if we rolled the dice, what's a realistic brief for the new guy?
• how long would Hecky actually want to stay? He's on route to making a record so bad, it may never be broken.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Memory lapse ?

The fans who have forgotten about his 10/15 years of continuous success instead remembering 15 awful games with no fans in the ground

That’s a proper memory lapse ^^^

I don’t think wilder is perfect you can have a nuanced opinion on football / a manager

You can say we were awful that first 15 games but could make the case that we were better then than we currently are

Easily sorted, what passed for good (not great I must add) in the past will have had no bearing on current thinking. As for the 15 years of success (I assume you meant at SUFC), well CW wasn't here for that length of time so memory lapse seems more appropriate to what you seem to infer is your recollection than my own. I loved our rise under Wilder, but once we arrived in the Prem a couple of things happened, Wilder certainly had his eye of players who could improve us, Cash at Villa being one, but financially we were never at the races, so could never compete, be it wages, fees or both. Secondly, sometimes it's clear that some managers seem like a fish out of water when they get to the Prem, and I think that initial first season to one side Wilder struggled after that, hence our relegation.

I don't wish Wilder any harm, but I think that past memory seems to get a bit hazy when his name crops up, as if the name alone is capable of continuing to pull rabbits out of a hat. Clearly after Wilder left SUFC he's not been able to maintain sustained success at any other club he's managed, and that's not memory lapse, it's fact.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Sheffsteel Do you ever not reply in long essays?

 

[1987]

Easily sorted, what passed for good (not great I must add) in the past will have had no bearing on current thinking. As for the 15 years of success (I assume you meant at SUFC), well CW wasn't here for that length of time so memory lapse seems more appropriate to what you seem to infer is your recollection than my own. I loved our rise under Wilder, but once we arrived in the Prem a couple of things happened, Wilder certainly had his eye of players who could improve us, Cash at Villa being one, but financially we were never at the races, so could never compete, be it wages, fees or both. Secondly, sometimes it's clear that some managers seem like a fish out of water when they get to the Prem, and I think that initial first season to one side Wilder struggled after that, hence our relegation.

I don't wish Wilder any harm, but I think that past memory seems to get a bit hazy when his name crops up, as if the name alone is capable of continuing to pull rabbits out of a hat. Clearly after Wilder left SUFC he's not been able to maintain sustained success at any other club he's managed, and that's not memory lapse, it's fact.

Watford is a poison chalice. Middlesbrough, I think fans at the time accepted they were better than the bare results. When they were fucked a few games ago, most of their fans seemed to be blaming Gibson for it all, even Wilder tenure.

He had more successful seasons with us than not successful, I think you boiling it all down to a relegation season might be deemed a "bit hazy". Honestly I think the wilder bashing, or just cheapening of what he did, is a bit much on this board. We still don't know what went on behind the scenes.

 

[Gavlar]

Hecky may well need to go, but you remember how shit we were under Wilder last time yeh?

 

[itsinyerblood]

Watford is a poison chalice. Middlesbrough, I think fans at the time accepted they were better than the bare results. When they were fucked a few games ago, most of their fans seemed to be blaming Gibson for it all, even Wilder tenure.

He had more successful seasons with us than not successful, I think you boiling it all down to a relegation season might be deemed a "bit hazy". Honestly I think the wilder bashing, or just cheapening of what he did, is a bit much on this board. We still don't know what went on behind the scenes.

A long, long way from being hazy in my view of what happened once we were relegated. Most pointedly, I don't wish to be an apologist for the time when things went pear shaped. What went before mustn't cloud the fact that we were unable to sustain the short stay in the Prem. It wasn't just Wilder who was responsible for our relegation, but our recruitment, based on Wilder's judgement, was far from ideal, hence Brewster's purchase, a sure sign that Liverpool had our pants down and laughed all the way to the bank.

 

[DEM_BLAYADS]

Hecky may well need to go, but you remember how shit we were under Wilder last time yeh?

You mean we were worse than when we got beat 8 nil at home with a majority full stadium? Or when we traveled to West Ham and got in there half a handful of times?

I remember watching every game in the behind closed doors season and I can't remember been that bad.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Very few managers in the game have ever had success at every club they've been to.

Initially the Boro fans were really impressed with his impact regards open attacking playing style.
Think it went downhill for him when the rumours said he was going to leave Boro to manage Burnley and he refused to throw cold water over it.
Don't think Boro fans will ever forgive him for seemingly courting interest from other clubs.

Watford fans never took to him....but don't think it was a good fit....was always going to be a bit of a poisoned chalice there.

For the Prince it's all about finances, he'd have to pay off Hecky's contract and as he's hoping to sell the club don't think
there's any way he'll show ambition splashing the cash on an expensive manager and/or giving out a long contract planning for the long term.
Instead you suspect the Prince will either keep Hecky or offer someone a low paid 8 month contract with a massive staying up bonus.
Also you suspect the Prince would want to keep McCall and Lester.

The only manager options that fit the bill of being a cheap option and willing to work with McCall and Lester are probably Warnock or Wilder.
Surely both would jump at the chance of having a go in the Premier League.
Think Warnock would instantly make us hard to beat but it wouldn't be pretty where as I believe, with Wilder almost every game would be like the Man Utd 1st half where we give it a go and if we lose we go down fighting giving full effort. However still think we'd be relegated with either option.

The massive downside for Wilder (and it's the same for Hecky too) is the last 20 minutes of every game we have a massive unsurmountable disadvantage. Due to the new 5 subs from 7 rule, most PL can bring on numerous fresh legs of PL quality. Where as our back up players are probably not even Championship standard. So even if we play an all out attacking Wilder style and are 2-0 up a half time.
It's likely to all go pear shaped when our players tire and the opponents bring on half a team of fresh players for the last 20 minutes.
Hecky most look at his subs bench, glance at the opposition subs bench and burst into tears, it's no contest.

If neither of them are interested then by default we keep Hecky and have little choice but to support him.
At least Hecky seems to have most of the fans on side, so it's not turned nasty yet.

What makes you think Wilder will be a cheap option? Is it due his standing these days? If so, he’s not really a good option then. Like with Wilder, Warnock is the bladey option. His only interest is a big lump of cash for a few months work in the PL. what do you think he’s learned about a PL relegation dogfight where success has generally evaded him? Do you think our squad can play direct football we’d be set up for under him?

In one day, today on here, l’ve read that there is little or no money (so it has to be a cheap option as we have to pay Hecky and his staff off) that the club has “plenty of money” or that our owner hasn’t put any money in so stilled being Prince Fullpockets he can Chuck a few quid at it (not forgetting United World presumably holding a couple of hundred million less expenses).

All we have at the moment are ifs buts and uncertainty enabling people to weave their own agenda or fantasies based on, well outside of “we’re in a mess” pure conjecture and a desire to look like some sort of sage.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I can see it happening......

Wilder appointed. He has the good fortune of Bash, Egan, Anel, George, RND all declared fit. We start picking up points and suddenly he's the Messiah again.

He’s not. He’s a very greedy boy…..

 

[S6Blademan]

Easily sorted, what passed for good (not great I must add) in the past will have had no bearing on current thinking. As for the 15 years of success (I assume you meant at SUFC), well CW wasn't here for that length of time so memory lapse seems more appropriate to what you seem to infer is your recollection than my own. I loved our rise under Wilder, but once we arrived in the Prem a couple of things happened, Wilder certainly had his eye of players who could improve us, Cash at Villa being one, but financially we were never at the races, so could never compete, be it wages, fees or both. Secondly, sometimes it's clear that some managers seem like a fish out of water when they get to the Prem, and I think that initial first season to one side Wilder struggled after that, hence our relegation.

I don't wish Wilder any harm, but I think that past memory seems to get a bit hazy when his name crops up, as if the name alone is capable of continuing to pull rabbits out of a hat. Clearly after Wilder left SUFC he's not been able to maintain sustained success at any other club he's managed, and that's not memory lapse, it's fact.

I meant the 15 years of success wilder has had

Wilder has had one job since he left and it was Boro where he didn’t fail nor did he succeed

Though I understand a manager is only as good as his last job

 

[wizadry]

I meant the 15 years of success wilder has had

Wilder has had one job since he left and it was Boro where he didn’t fail nor did he succeed

Though I understand a manager is only as good as his last job

Surely even you know that post is bollocks……and I mean complete and utter bollocks just like these tiresome threads. There’s too many on here and it would take ages to merge them all, do us all a favour and stop doing them ffs, just post all your shit in the same one.

 

[loveWalrusDaveTheBlade]

We used to be HMS Piss the league but right now we are a rudderless ship


This Club is fast becoming a rudderless ship without a captain

There’s no leadership on the pitch

There’s no leadership in the dug out

And there’s no leadership off the pitch bar Stephen Bettis who is the only competent person at the club

And the worst thing is the passengers us , are just accepting the ship sinking because oh we were told there’s better ships

Our fans this season have suddenly turned into a bunch of wet wipes who are accepting relegation with a record low points total and a bloke who is milking the club dry for his own personal gain

We are 3 points from safety and probably need 30/35 points to stay up with Nearly 30 games to go

There’s only one man who can unite this club and save the day and thats Sir Chris of wilder

I’m no wet wipe, you arsehole, and neither are the vast majority of Blades fans.

 

[Freethinker]

S6 bladesman how do you know the prince is keeping the money? he has admitted he is skint and cannot afford to put any more money into the club.
Thats why he wants to sell the club, so why should he care if we get relegated. he is not bothered about the supporters anyway.

How can a bloke with a personal wealth of £200 million be skint?

I can see it happening......

Wilder appointed. He has the good fortune of Bash, Egan, Anel, George, RND all declared fit. We start picking up points and suddenly he's the Messiah again.

That'll do for me!

 

[S6Blademan]

Surely even you know that post is bollocks……and I mean complete and utter bollocks just like these tiresome threads. There’s too many on here and it would take ages to merge them all, do us all a favour and stop doing them ffs, just post all your shit in the same one.

How is it bollocks please explain ?

Wilder had been successfull at every managerial role he has held up until the Covid season behind closed doors

Alfreton / Halifax / Northampton / Oxford / Blades

That’s 10-15 years of managerial success but you choose to judge him and many of our brain dead fans also on 10/15 games with no fans in the ground

And the Boro “Failure” he took 60+ points in 45 games which is play off form whilst beating Man U & Spurs in the cup

He didn’t succeed at Boro but I wouldn’t say it was a failure

 

[S6Blademan]

I’m no wet wipe, you arsehole, and neither are the vast majority of Blades fans.

Sounds like something a wet wipe would say it’s only an opinion

 

[247Blade]

I read that in the voice of Brian the Blade and thought about A nice bottle of red wine

442

 

[247Blade]

How is it bollocks please explain ?

Wilder had been successfull at every managerial role he has held up until the Covid season behind closed doors

Alfreton / Halifax / Northampton / Oxford / Blades

That’s 10-15 years of managerial success but you choose to judge him and many of our brain dead fans also on 10/15 games with no fans in the ground

And the Boro “Failure” he took 60+ points in 45 games which is play off form whilst beating Man U & Spurs in the cup

He didn’t succeed at Boro but I wouldn’t say it was a failure

For God's sake forget about Wilder ... Great while it lasted ... done and over!

 

[wizadry]

How is it bollocks please explain ?

Wilder had been successfull at every managerial role he has held up until the Covid season behind closed doors

Alfreton / Halifax / Northampton / Oxford / Blades

That’s 10-15 years of managerial success but you choose to judge him and many of our brain dead fans also on 10/15 games with no fans in the ground

And the Boro “Failure” he took 60+ points in 45 games which is play off form whilst beating Man U & Spurs in the cup

He didn’t succeed at Boro but I wouldn’t say it was a failure

As I said, it’s bollocks because you’re forgetting about one of Wilders clubs since he left us, that’s why it’s bollocks, this is when I know someone isn’t really believing what they’re actually saying.

 

[S6Blademan]

As I said, it’s bollocks because you’re forgetting about one of Wilders clubs since he left us, that’s why it’s bollocks, this is when I know someone isn’t really believing what they’re actually saying.

Watford wasn’t a job they brought him in to manage for about 8 games after 2 they said they would pick another manager

So yes you can discount that one

 

[S6Blademan]

Captain Wilder, last seen sneaking off in a lifeboat full of money from the back of the sinking ship.

To be fair he did build the port build the ship then drive the boat

 

[Sirius]

S6 bladesman how do you know the prince is keeping the money? he has admitted he is skint and cannot afford to put any more money into the club.
Thats why he wants to sell the club, so why should he care if we get relegated. he is not bothered about the supporters anyway.

If here’re to get rid of the other clubs bludging money hanging round his neck, and concentrate only on the Blades, then we may just have a chance. Otherwise P A fuck off and the sooner the better

 

[Zeblades34]

Even with unlimited funds (hi Forest), it’s incredibly hard to dismantle and rebuild a team after promotion.

This season is basically about damage limitation and the owners selling up. Focusing so heavily on the manager’s use of subs, or whether Norwood should play, seems ridiculous to me.

Owners won't be selling up anytime soon with the price they're asking for, way too high

 

[S6Blademan]

Agree but we've seen Wilder can perform miracles with players no better than the ones we have.
If Wilder has success after he left there's no way we'd get him.
We need a temporary cheap option, this can only be someone our of favour...so there's a chance Wilder would accept, we have nothing to lose.

Find it kind of perverse that many of our fans blame the ownership
but when the tanker is now edging to the rocks.....most normal fans call for the owners to act and at least try to rescue the situation.
However for some weird reason...I've seen comments like it doesn't matter how the players perform we need to keep Hecky for a few years.
Don't think I've seen such loyalty in the history of the game when the manager and players can perform how they like, they could lose 6-0 every match
not even bother trying and for some of our fans "it's OK" because incredibly some are saying we don't belong here.

However when we're on less than 10 points at Xmas the same fans will be slagging off the owner.

Most fans expected us to struggle but no one expected us to perform this badly where as unlike every other promoted club we can't even compete.
I'll make a prediction, more performances like the Man Utd 1st half and Hecky will stay, even if we lose.
However if we're outlclassed when paying Wolves and Bournemouth and also lose then the fanbase will turn and wouldn't surprise me if Wilder returns.
Don't think Wilder will save us but we'll play like the 1st half against Man Utd virtually every match, and we'll easily better the low points record.

Bang on

I can take going down but what I can’t take is the embarrassing performances

Luton & Burnley are probably gonna go down but they will go down fighting

We aren’t