If we were to sack Hecky

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You asked for a reason why I gave it you.
And I pointed out where your argument failed.
I don’t see how this is difficult to understand. You don’t agree no issue. But it’s weird to ask something be told the answer you’re looking for? And then go off with whatever your saying now.
I understand it very well. No I don't agree. It's called holding a debate, which is what generally happens on forums.

I’m not reading all that just how it looks hurts my eyes. Paragraphs are the future.
Afraid of seeing where your argument failed I can see you're that sort of person.
Paragraphs? They were used but you seem to like double spacing as well.
That was easy.

I don’t see how this is difficult to understand
Also these little snipes make you look a prick which I'm pretty sure you are but if you don't do things like that it would leave people wondering. So there we are.
 

And I pointed out where your argument failed.

I understand it very well. No I don't agree. It's called holding a debate, which is what generally happens on forums.


Afraid of seeing where your argument failed I can see you're that sort of person.
Paragraphs? They were used but you seem to like double spacing as well.



Also these little snipes make you look a prick which I'm pretty sure you are but if you don't do things like that it would leave people wondering. So there we are.
Women rant like that. I’m not reading any of that.
 
Assuming the club stays in the hands of the current owner, and the Board decide to change the management team, I think you're right. On the other hand, new owner(s) would presumably mean more money so, a manager with a better Loss Ratio could be possible.

As with so many things in life, timing is key. If the board doesn't twist now (history suggests that this is the time in a season when they would) then IMO Hecky stays for the remained of his contract, at least. If, OTOH, they twist and go for a new management team now, then we're stuck with the current players and the calibre of manager would need to be MUCH higher than the likes of Potter, to get a significant enough tune out of the players to stave off relegation. If survival is the objective, even substantial changes to the playing staff, in the JTW, would be a tough ask for any manager, be they new or old.

Bottom line is, we're unlikely to survive. We don't look like being sold early enough to bring in someone good enough, in time to survive. If we're destined to go down, we're even more unlikely to attract a manager that's a genuine, marked improvement over Hecky. May as well stick and ride out the remained of PH's 5 year deal and see where we are in May 2026.
Sadly Ron we don't look like being sold at all. All this supposed interest has run to the hills if it was even there at all.
 
Hassenhuttl would be a great shout as a replacement. Took Southampton over when in the relegation zone and kept them up that season and the following three seasons. Club got rid his back room staff, but still had 12 points from 14 games when sacked. Ridiculous decision to sack him, I bet Southampton wish they had him now.
 
Higher level of competition
Marginal. 3 of his 5 clubs were in the German equivalent of the Champ and League 1 (quality of our League 1 and 2 respectively?). Yes he 'saved' Southampton and followed that up with an 11th place finish ( a great season TBF) but has also presided over 2 9-0 hammerings, and 3 seasons of bottom half survival scraps. Not convinced, but his PL experience would be a step up.
 
Marginal. 3 of his 5 clubs were in the German equivalent of the Champ and League 1 (quality of our League 1 and 2 respectively?). Yes he 'saved' Southampton and followed that up with an 11th place finish ( a great season TBF) but has also presided over 2 9-0 hammerings, and 3 seasons of bottom half survival scraps. Not convinced, but his PL experience would be a step up.
At this point we are looking at the 3 premier survivals surely
 

Marginal. 3 of his 5 clubs were in the German equivalent of the Champ and League 1 (quality of our League 1 and 2 respectively?). Yes he 'saved' Southampton and followed that up with an 11th place finish ( a great season TBF) but has also presided over 2 9-0 hammerings, and 3 seasons of bottom half survival scraps. Not convinced, but his PL experience would be a step up.
In a straight comparison with PH I'd say he's done more at the same or higher levels. I wouldn't mind him getting the job but neither would I be clamouring for him to take over
 
Marginal. 3 of his 5 clubs were in the German equivalent of the Champ and League 1 (quality of our League 1 and 2 respectively?). Yes he 'saved' Southampton and followed that up with an 11th place finish ( a great season TBF) but has also presided over 2 9-0 hammerings, and 3 seasons of bottom half survival scraps. Not convinced, but his PL experience would be a step up.
In our position its either someone at that sort of level - I can’t see that we are going to get someone who has been more successful in the PL than him - or its a punt on either a rising star from the EFL, a member of staff from an established PL club looking to make a step into the hot seat, or someone from overseas. There isn’t an option that doesn’t carry risk.

Potter isn’t an option. He can set his sights far higher.
 
In our position its either someone at that sort of level - I can’t see that we are going to get someone who has been more successful in the PL than him - or its a punt on either a rising star from the EFL, a member of staff from an established PL club looking to make a step into the hot seat, or someone from overseas. There isn’t an option that doesn’t carry risk.

Potter isn’t an option. He can set his sights far higher.

Only way we're getting a markedly better option than the likes of Hecky, Wilder, Hassenhuttl, even Potter, is by throwing money at someone to leave a 'better' job and well, we ain't got a lot of spare cash.

As I posted earlier in the thread, the timing of our predicament, IMO precludes any movement for a new management team. As painful as it is, and unless we see more absolute drubbings, I think we stick with PH. The blokes hands have been tied since the end of last season and we're currently playing with squad that can barely put out a defence.

I recon survival, from the Boards POV, was only ever a pipedream. It looks like financial consolidation and club stability were of the highest priority, for the Owner, this season.
 
Only way we're getting a markedly better option than the likes of Hecky, Wilder, Hassenhuttl, even Potter, is by throwing money at someone to leave a 'better' job and well, we ain't got a lot of spare cash.

As I posted earlier in the thread, the timing of our predicament, IMO precludes any movement for a new management team. As painful as it is, and unless we see more absolute drubbings, I think we stick with PH. The blokes hands have been tied since the end of last season and we're currently playing with squad that can barely put out a defence.

I recon survival, from the Boards POV, was only ever a pipedream. It looks like financial consolidation and club stability were of the highest priority, for the Owner, this season.

The current level of performance cannot continue indefinitely. No matter how bad a hand he’s been dealt, we aren’t even competing.
 
The current level of performance cannot continue indefinitely. No matter how bad a hand he’s been dealt, we aren’t even competing.
Sure, I agree, in principle but it feels like unless you're going for a candidate that is a known, marked improvement what's the point? A change for the sake of change, to someone with a comparable record could, seems short sighted. No easy route out and I agree it feels like action has to be taken if we don't turn a corner, I'm just not sure it's wise to roll the dice on someone that, historically, has produced more of the same as we have with PH.

Obviously you want to get someone in, cheap, and they manage to bottle lightening but if Prince Abdulla can do that again, he needs to start playing the lottery.
 
Sure, I agree, in principle but it feels like unless you're going for a candidate that is a known, marked improvement what's the point? A change for the sake of change, to someone with a comparable record could, seems short sighted. No easy route out and I agree it feels like action has to be taken if we don't turn a corner, I'm just not sure it's wise to roll the dice on someone that, historically, has produced more of the same as we have with PH.

Obviously you want to get someone in, cheap, and they manage to bottle lightening but if Prince Abdulla can do that again, he needs to start playing the lottery.

There’s decent managers out there, we need to find one on an upwards trajectory who suits the environment and circumstances at Bramall Lane. It’s a good job for someone on their way up.

If the performances continue at this level, I think it’s damaging for the squad, the fanbase and our prospects next year.
 
If we are something like P19 W0 D3 L16 ….. at Xmas, much as I like Hecky…. he can’t carry on at that point.
 
Anything near 20% Career Loss's is a good step up from where we are. He has 23%, consistently does very well domestically and has had success in Europe. Now we're talking.

Unless those sorts of figures are normalised to take into account relative strength of opposition, they're fucking meaningless
 
If this situation continues till mid Nov, with Hecky in charge, he's got to go imo. Get Hessenhuttl in, let him buy in January and then he can prepare for a tilt at the championship if we go down, don't wait while season ends or mid summer, get Hecky back with the youngsters
 
If this situation continues till mid Nov, with Hecky in charge, he's got to go imo. Get Hessenhuttl in, let him buy in January and then he can prepare for a tilt at the championship if we go down, don't wait while season ends or mid summer, get Hecky back with the youngsters
This is assuming that Hassenhuttl would want to come here. If not, then who would you go for as a replacement?
 
Unless those sorts of figures are normalised to take into account relative strength of opposition, they're fucking meaningless
Never claimed it as a perfect metric. Just looking for a short hand to help myself judge the relative merits of managers. I follow United but know relatively little about the wider football world. When names of managers are thrown around I have no idea what to think of them. Career Loss stats seem like a decent, board strokes, way to suss a managers credentials. Especially when viewed in comparison to others:

Name
Career Loss %
NameCareer Loss %
Hecky36%Benitez27%
Potter30%Rooney46%
Blessin37%Postecoglou26%
Pep12%Monty29%
Warcock33%Pulis34%
Wilder33%Darren Moore27%
Marco Silva29%Rob Edwards32%
Ten Hag20%Emery25%
Dean Smith36%Kompany19%
Howe35%Klopp22%
Jokanovic27%Nigel Clough39%
Bielsa29%Farke30%

As I said, it's not a perfect system. Howe for example is an outlier, but I find it interesting that the likes of Hecky, Wilder, Warnock, Pulis and Dean Smith are all within 3% or each other.

Out of interest, how would you go about normalising the stats as you suggest?
 

Never claimed it as a perfect metric. Just looking for a short hand to help myself judge the relative merits of managers. I follow United but know relatively little about the wider football world. When names of managers are thrown around I have no idea what to think of them. Career Loss stats seem like a decent, board strokes, way to suss a managers credentials. Especially when viewed in comparison to others:

Name
Career Loss %
NameCareer Loss %
Hecky36%Benitez27%
Potter30%Rooney46%
Blessin37%Postecoglou26%
Pep12%Monty29%
Warcock33%Pulis34%
Wilder33%Darren Moore27%
Marco Silva29%Rob Edwards32%
Ten Hag20%Emery25%
Dean Smith36%Kompany19%
Howe35%Klopp22%
Jokanovic27%Nigel Clough39%
Bielsa29%Farke30%

As I said, it's not a perfect system. Howe for example is an outlier, but I find it interesting that the likes of Hecky, Wilder, Warnock, Pulis and Dean Smith are all within 3% or each other.

Out of interest, how would you go about normalising the stats as you suggest?

My first thought would be to look at the pre match odds and then go +/- dependent on what happens. So if we are 4/1 on Saturday (I have no idea what the actual odds are and I'm excluding bookie vig for the purposes of this), if we lose Hecky is 0.2 losses ahead of expectation, and if we win it's 0.8 the other way
 

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