Berge

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Alan Birchenall's hair said:
He'll end up playing in the Danish/Belgian/Swedish etc .. league. 'Cos that's his level. the idea that he could play Premier League football is ridiculous. In the Prem, tackles are harder, players are faster, brains are smarter.
Still, his comedy 'attempted headers' provided light relief during a stupendously dull afternoon.
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He has already played at a higher keel than many of the players in prem league over last 3/ 4 years

The idea that he can’t because he has not met the lofty heights of some Unitedites is ridiculous
 

robbiez666 said:
would they fuck. John Swift can't get in the WBA starting 11 most weeks and he's been twice the player Berge has in England.

They'd all have Norwood though.
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That alone sums up just how average you have to be to be seen as success in England lol

And I actually like Swift
 
Norwood's 6 iron said:
This is our problem, we don't have midfield player that does the horrible stuff like winning tackles and stopping the other team playing.
Trevor Hockey was our version of Norman Hunter.
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Never bought into the Hockey myth myself, probably because my old man pointed out that he wasn’t much use when in possession of the ball; let’s be right, great beard but a poor man’s Monty, which is why Mr Harris thanked him for his service and eased him out of the door. Hunter was a bully and didnt mess with anyone who could give it back (loved to see him backpedaling from a windmilling Franny Lee) but he was a better player than dear old Trev. That’s how I remember it anyway!
The world has moved on; you can’t clog your way through a match these days, even in the Championship.
 
Frank the tank said:
General consensus is that the guy is terrible
I'll agree he's been terrible recently (although not the worst player In a blades shirt yesterday ) but has had form where he has been outstanding
That's obviously forgotten about now
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He’s forever judged by some to an impossible standard, that’s what does my head in. He’s been quiet post WC, no question there. Of course, if he’s not front dropkicking players into oblivion, going on gallivanting 50 yard runs and twatting in 2 goals a half, then it’s “gEt iM sELt”
 
robbiez666 said:
would they fuck. John Swift can't get in the WBA starting 11 most weeks and he's been twice the player Berge has in England.

They'd all have Norwood though.
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That’s a strong reply in response to saying a £22m international midfielder, who’s played in the Champions League and Premier, wouldn’t walk into the first 11 of teams in the Championship. On the Swift comment, well I think that’s slightly hyperbolic to say the least. Swift is a good player, but he was a standout player for an appalling Reading side and played his entire career at lower league level, I’m not sure it’s a fair comparison at all.
 
A Storm of Blades said:
That’s a strong reply in response to saying a £22m international midfielder, who’s played in the Champions League and Premier, wouldn’t walk into the first 11 of teams in the Championship. On the Swift comment, well I think that’s slightly hyperbolic to say the least. Swift is a good player, but he was a standout player for an appalling Reading side and played his entire career at lower league level, I’m not sure it’s a fair comparison at all.
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Let's break this down.

1. He cost £22 million - Brewster cost more. Who cares what someone cost?
2. International - For a country which hasn't qualified for an international competition since 2000. Burke is an international for a more successful team.
3. Champions League - Played for a Belgium team in the group stage who got 1 point. WOW
4. Played in the EPL for us. Did ok, without looking particularly impressive.
5. You think the above makes him a star Championship player when his performances on the pitch, when he's on the pitch, have been far from impressive.

John Swift, on the other hand, was in every Championship team of the season last season.

You are literally rating a player on reputation, not performance.
 
themaninblack said:
Never bought into the Hockey myth myself, probably because my old man pointed out that he wasn’t much use when in possession of the ball; let’s be right, great beard but a poor man’s Monty, which is why Mr Harris thanked him for his service and eased him out of the door. Hunter was a bully and didnt mess with anyone who could give it back (loved to see him backpedaling from a windmilling Franny Lee) but he was a better player than dear old Trev. That’s how I remember it anyway!
The world has moved on; you can’t clog your way through a match these days, even in the Championship.
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He played a key role in ensuring United got promoted, Harris signed him with the instruction to win the ball and give it to Currie. Hockey laterbroke his leg and was never the same player.
themaninblack said:
Never bought into the Hockey myth myself, probably because my old man pointed out that he wasn’t much use when in possession of the ball; let’s be right, great beard but a poor man’s Monty, which is why Mr Harris thanked him for his service and eased him out of the door. Hunter was a bully and didnt mess with anyone who could give it back (loved to see him backpedaling from a windmilling Franny Lee) but he was a better player than dear old Trev. That’s how I remember it anyway!
The world has moved on; you can’t clog your way through a match these days, even in the Championship.
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Harris signed Hockey with the instruction to win the ball and give it to Currie, it was a partnership that was key in helping us to win promotion. He broke his leg the following season and was never the same player. I wouldn't claim that he was the best midfield player we've ever had but he did the job that he was bought to do.
The game has moved on but I still think that we lack a bit of steel in midfield. It's not about being a clogger but you need a midfield that can be competitive.
We lack that and it's why Hecky keeps taking McAtee off when we start to lose the middle of the park.
 
Worth noting he has had injury issues prior to joining us. The one that is of the most concern is the muscle injury at Genk that kept him out for most of the season.

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Woolford of Wall Street said:
It doesn't necessarily follow that Berge not being nearly as good as he could be, means that he's been a net failure. On the whole, I believe that we've been better for him being in the team.
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We probably won't get the return on him we hoped we would get.
 

Brownieblade said:
He has already played at a higher keel than many of the players in prem league over last 3/ 4 years

The idea that he can’t because he has not met the lofty heights of some Unitedites is ridiculous
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But for balance, at that level, didn’t his team take one point from a possible 18?

I think that achievement was made possible by playing in a shite (certainly below championship level) league in the first place.
 
alcoblade said:
But for balance, at that level, didn’t his team take one point from a possible 18?

I think that achievement was made possible by playing in a shite (certainly below championship level) league in the first place.
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Oh more than possible, the key point is though he played well enough in the champ league and also for his country to then be looked at by many teams from many leagues etc

He wasn’t just one of the x amount of players who also played in similar circumstances and never registered at any point at the sane level to be looked at
 
I’m more than a bit of a happy clapper. I don’t see any point criticising players for not being as good as expected for the money paid for them (nothing to do with them), or for being poor players generally (club shouldn’t have bought them - manager shouldn’t pick them).

The main time to criticise for me is when players …
A) Refuse to play, refuse to come on as sub, refuse to train.
B) Do something stupid in their personal lives making them unavailable to play (drink driving, fighting, etc.)
C) Don’t look after their health and fitness properly.
D) Don’t follow instructions from the manager.
E) Genuinely don’t put effort into a match (although this is sometimes difficult to be sure of because there may be things supporters don’t know, such as carrying knock etc.)

If a player’s form drops off? I don’t see the point in criticising them as a fan, providing they’re training hard, following manager’s instructions, putting in full effort, displaying the right attitude, and working on anything they can to improve.

I don’t see any point criticising Berge.

That said, there’s no real problem with anyone on a fans’ forum moaning about Berge (or anyone else having a rubbish game or a poor season). The player’s not going to see it (you’d assume), so if anyone wants to have a moan it’s not really any sort of problem.

Shouting your criticism at the player though? At the match? Where they can hear it? For me, that’s only justifiable if they’re doing one of the above, otherwise it’s pointless and potentially damaging.

I hope people don’t start getting on Berge’s back from the stands at the game.
 
alcoblade said:
But for balance, at that level, didn’t his team take one point from a possible 18?

I think that achievement was made possible by playing in a shite (certainly below championship level) league in the first place.
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I don’t watch enough Belgium football but I’m not sure it’s worse than the Championship, which has never been that great either

The Championship is great for what it is but it’s not filled with great flowing football either
 
Brownieblade said:
Oh more than possible, the key point is though he played well enough in the champ league and also for his country to then be looked at by many teams from many leagues etc

He wasn’t just one of the x amount of players who also played in similar circumstances and never registered at any point at the sane level to be looked at
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Fair points, but he had 6 games (I think) in the CL, and stood out for a team that was outclassed every game.
He’s had 3 seasons in England’s top and second decision, and has largely failed to impress, even at the lower level.

For me we are at the stage of debating if he’s worth start in the higher echelon of the second division. There’s surely not many still thinking he’s a top European player, or anywhere near that level?
 
Said it before. It’s all about expectations. Wilder had a decent reputation for finding and developing decent talent for little money. He and his team had a great start to life in the Premier League first season back.
For the first time ever, the club spent big money on signings, and much was expected of McBurnie, Berge and Brewster, just because of the transfer fee they came with. It’s worth mentioning that these players were persuaded to sign despite the club wage cap. We lost many potential signings because players knew they could get more elsewhere.

Today, only one of those players has come close to achieving his potential and that is McBurnie. It’s taken 3 seasons and 3 different managers to get there. If you can’t guess, I’m a big Berge fan too.

As far as Berge is concerned, I really don’t get what the problem is. If he can’t play a leading role at championship level, then he won’t get his dream move to a top EPL side. The club will not release him for a lowball offer, because he is still seen as a key player in our current promotion season. The least the club expects is to get some financial value out him because they paid big money for him.
He is the polar opposite of Lundstram in terms of his personality, and he is just not a great fit for the current squad in terms of his playing contribution.

Whatever his skill level really is, he’s not cutting it for the Blades. Let him go somewhere else and be successful there, because, just like Khadra, he goes not fit in here. The only people who might tell you different are the other players, management and Berge himself.

I think he is a very good player, but he does not fit the current squad format and tactical posture.
 
themaninblack said:
Never bought into the Hockey myth myself, probably because my old man pointed out that he wasn’t much use when in possession of the ball; let’s be right, great beard but a poor man’s Monty, which is why Mr Harris thanked him for his service and eased him out of the door. Hunter was a bully and didnt mess with anyone who could give it back (loved to see him backpedaling from a windmilling Franny Lee) but he was a better player than dear old Trev. That’s how I remember it anyway!
The world has moved on; you can’t clog your way through a match these days, even in the Championship.
Click to expand...
Hockey was immense
 
alcoblade said:
Fair points, but he had 6 games (I think) in the CL, and stood out for a team that was outclassed every game.
He’s had 3 seasons in England’s top and second decision, and has largely failed to impress, even at the lower level.

For me we are at the stage of debating if he’s worth start in the higher echelon of the second division. There’s surely not many still thinking he’s a top European player, or anywhere near that level?
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But the reason it’s a debate, or part of the reason, you are talking 3 seasons filled largely with being played in positions he had hardly played before coupled with several periods of injury and added to having to play and adapt to a far quicker game than he has ever played

We are here now, having this discussion, because for the vast vast majority of us we saw a situation where someone we never were quite sure where he would play was suddenly placed in various spots and showed a level of creativity maybe many thought he didn’t have

I think you can rightly argue the last two years he hasn’t looked like a physical fit for the two most physical leagues in football( yeh I get the lower leagues but for this we are just talking top 2 in most big countries ) but it’s clearly beyond doubt given his age and how playing regularly for his country should help his game improve that he has a shot in right circumstances
 
Brownieblade said:
But the reason it’s a debate, or part of the reason, you are talking 3 seasons filled largely with being played in positions he had hardly played before coupled with several periods of injury and added to having to play and adapt to a far quicker game than he has ever played

We are here now, having this discussion, because for the vast vast majority of us we saw a situation where someone we never were quite sure where he would play was suddenly placed in various spots and showed a level of creativity maybe many thought he didn’t have

I think you can rightly argue the last two years he hasn’t looked like a physical fit for the two most physical leagues in football( yeh I get the lower leagues but for this we are just talking top 2 in most big countries ) but it’s clearly beyond doubt given his age and how playing regularly for his country should help his game improve that he has a shot in right circumstances
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Honest question - what position should we play him in?

He looks poor when deep lying, and occasionally decent when advanced on the right.

If that doesn’t cover his suited positions, what are they?
 
Just as people spout on with the 'whasamarrerwiyer? Weer second in t'leeg' nonsense which they think kills any debate about a player's worth on the pitch, it's strange the amount of mealy mouthed excuses we see trying badly to whittle away any criticism of Berge. He came here out of nowhere for an eyewatering fee for our club with not much pedigree or providence that he'd make it in the English game. The brief was that he was a flair-type defensive midfielder earmarked to elbow Lundstram out which actually did start the ejection of said player's Tommee Tippee, his rattle and then his loaded nappy out of the cot. So we've heard, and exhausted the 'he's just returned from injury' bollocks, we've heard the 'its a tough league', we've heard 'he does stuff during a match' (without much evidence) some offer 'he's not match fit' (erm ... so why is he fucking playing?) and now its 'he's already selt and protecting himsen from injury'

Face it. He's been here three years, scored a few tap ins, a penalty at Anfield and run past a few players. That's it. It's hardly fucking 'knob out' stuff is it? I've seen more from Oliver fucking Burke in danger and excitement and he was warm, chunky bobbar on and off the ball. He even scored at Old Trafford and we won! In that three years Berge has been on the sick-list half of that and when back takes twenty games to warm hissen up, giving us two or three games where his fanclub sat in the stands rub their lucky rabbit's feet hoping he's gonna rip the opposition to pieces. And he doesn't. He's shy in the tackle, freightend to death to get his head on the ball and coasts through games taking up a midfield position you'd get more from John Gannon, Mark Patterson, Nicky Montgomery or even fucking Michael Doyle. I see more endeavour from an ageing Basham running forward and trying to create than I do Berge. He's done for us people. Admit it. He's another one of Wilder's expensive duds, like Brewster, like McBurnie, like Mousset and like Freeman and Robinson v1.1 and the rest of the benchwarmers and failures he brought in.

End of season he needs to fuck off back to the cosier life of Belgium and we move on, another lesson learned from the glory days.

pommpey
 
pommpey said:
Just as people spout on with the 'whasamarrerwiyer? Weer second in t'leeg' nonsense which they think kills any debate about a player's worth on the pitch, it's strange the amount of mealy mouthed excuses we see trying badly to whittle away any criticism of Berge. He came here out of nowhere for an eyewatering fee for our club with not much pedigree or providence that he'd make it in the English game. The brief was that he was a flair-type defensive midfielder earmarked to elbow Lundstram out which actually did start the ejection of said player's Tommee Tippee, his rattle and then his loaded nappy out of the cot. So we've heard, and exhausted the 'he's just returned from injury' bollocks, we've heard the 'its a tough league', we've heard 'he does stuff during a match' (without much evidence) some offer 'he's not match fit' (erm ... so why is he fucking playing?) and now its 'he's already selt and protecting himsen from injury'

Face it. He's been here three years, scored a few tap ins, a penalty at Anfield and run past a few players. That's it. It's hardly fucking 'knob out' stuff is it? I've seen more from Oliver fucking Burke in danger and excitement and he was warm, chunky bobbar on and off the ball. He even scored at Old Trafford and we won! In that three years Berge has been on the sick-list half of that and when back takes twenty games to warm hissen up, giving us two or three games where his fanclub sat in the stands rub their lucky rabbit's feet hoping he's gonna rip the opposition to pieces. And he doesn't. He's shy in the tackle, freightend to death to get his head on the ball and coasts through games taking up a midfield position you'd get more from John Gannon, Mark Patterson, Nicky Montgomery or even fucking Michael Doyle. I see more endeavour from an ageing Basham running forward and trying to create than I do Berge. He's done for us people. Admit it. He's another one of Wilder's expensive duds, like Brewster, like McBurnie, like Mousset and like Freeman and Robinson v1.1 and the rest of the benchwarmers and failures he brought in.

End of season he needs to fuck off back to the cosier life of Belgium and we move on, another lesson learned from the glory days.

pommpey
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Exactly everything I see pomp so I'm glad you took the time to write this out. Alot of fans rate him too much because he's 6ft4, a Norway international and played in the CL. He will always be just a good player and nothing else.
 
Can't wait for the next thread with the consensus that Berge is far too good for us and there's a queue of Champions League teams after him. Followed by another thread a couple of months later where its broadly agreed that he's overrated and we should send him on loan to Chesterfield.

He's judged by higher standards and praised by lower standards. He's definitely a form based player and while I previously thought he was destined for great great things, I'm now concerned he blows hot and cold too much.

When he's on it, he's the best player at this club. But those days are too few and far between. He's twice the player of John Swift though ffs.
 

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