VAR Is it better without VAR?

[Gin&Juice]

Var sends that lad off.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

VAR has its benefits and its drawbacks. As said above, the tackle on McAtee is a red.

 

[bakeblade]

VAR has its benefits and its drawbacks. As said above, the tackle on McAtee is a red.

This bag of shite doesn't seem to be getting any better, yesterday's West Ham decision was absolutely disgraceful.
Enjoy non VAR games while we can.

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

There are obviously benefits to VAR but none of them trump the ability to celebrate a goal without it being checked and cancelled, meaning a full scale celebration from fans and players was for nothing

Even worse when it's a quality goal ruled out for something minimal. That is extremely anti football and when you know its gone too far

 

[A Storm of Blades]

The Newcastle one is terrible too. As I’ve said before, reviews are seemingly taking place from scratch, as if a decision hasn’t already been made. There’s a world of difference between reviewing an incident through a lens of assessing whether the on field decision is a shocker and looking at the incident to make a decision on it, overriding any decision that has already been made.

The trouble is pundits are just as variable. Looking at VAR replays in slow motion from multiple angles to determine decision A should have been decision B but forgetting the ‘clear and obvious error’ bit. As I’ve said previously, there should be a time limit for review and it should replayed in real-time and limited to 1-2 angles. If it requires 5 minutes, 5 angles in slow motion then, by definition, it isn’t clear and obvious.

I also don’t think it should be automatic for a VAR review. I think there should be 2 appeals per team, with set parameters given e.g. penalties, goals, red cards. That way Howe could, as part of the appeal, have said the defender pushed the attacker into the keeper etc and then VAR is reviewing based on specifics.

 

[Astraboy]

Enough said!

 

[Grey Blade]

As well as the decisions in the West Ham and Newcastle games there was the Van Dyck stamp on the Everton player's ankle which should surely have been a red card? In the Aston Villa game, for a change the linesman put his flag up but incorrectly gave offside - if he'd delayed flagging, VAR could have checked the goal and it would have been given.

The irony is that VAR was supposed to remove human error but it doesn't seem to have done anything of the sort.

 

[Snake]

To me it should be really simplified. I hate VAR, but applied in the correct way, it would have a positive impact. For me, VAR should only be used in 3 instances. 1. To decide whether a penalty should be awarded. The referee should never blow for a pen, play should always continue and VAR should decide whether it's a pen, dive or whatever. If VAR can't decide this after 30 seconds then that should be review over. 2. For offsides where there is daylight between the players.... not for fuckin big toes offside or 'was it defender ankle or attacker shoulder'? etc. If the linesman flags, fair enough, he/she should be given a tad of leeway here.... we don't want to have to wait 5 mins for videos to be watched and watched again to determine millimeters. If there is daylight and the linesman plays on, then VAR should over rule. If not, leave it be. 3. For incorrect red cards. Red cards are horrible and completely spoil the game. If its a clear red then fair enough, but if ref gets it wrong, then over rule it - don't spoil the game.

 

[BladeInIreland]

There are obviously benefits to VAR but none of them trump the ability to celebrate a goal without it being checked and cancelled, meaning a full scale celebration from fans and players was for nothing

Even worse when it's a quality goal ruled out for something minimal. That is extremely anti football and when you know its gone too far

It's even worse for the pessimistic fans like myself who don't get the full scale celebration at all. What used to be a quick glance at the ref and linesman is now a 5 minute wait.

 

[Sheffsteel]

There are 2 types of decisions. Factual and opinion based.

VAR can be used for goal line technology and (with better technology that I believe will be used in the Water World Cup) offsides.

Everything else is opinion based. Even football pundits in the studio watching multiple videos sometimes disagree.
So there will always be controversy.

The trend that seems to have happened regards VAR is trying to take away judgement and introduce black and white decision making.
So regards penalties it seems to be about "was there contact"? If the answer is yes, then the argument appears to be it should be a penalty.

This tends to encourage players to go down in the box, even when feeling the lightest of touches.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

To me it should be really simplified. I hate VAR, but applied in the correct way, it would have a positive impact. For me, VAR should only be used in 3 instances. 1. To decide whether a penalty should be awarded. The referee should never blow for a pen, play should always continue and VAR should decide whether it's a pen, dive or whatever. If VAR can't decide this after 30 seconds then that should be review over. 2. For offsides where there is daylight between the players.... not for fuckin big toes offside or 'was it defender ankle or attacker shoulder'? etc. If the linesman flags, fair enough, he/she should be given a tad of leeway here.... we don't want to have to wait 5 mins for videos to be watched and watched again to determine millimeters. If there is daylight and the linesman plays on, then VAR should over rule. If not, leave it be. 3. For incorrect red cards. Red cards are horrible and completely spoil the game. If its a clear red then fair enough, but if ref gets it wrong, then over rule it - don't spoil the game.

I think the on field ref should be making every decision TBH. Then VAR can overrule if ‘clear and obvious…’ if you start delegating decisions away from the man in the middle, it’s a slippery slope in my view. It’s also clear that VAR referring to a pitch side monitor isn’t working and having far too much influence on the outcome. Takes a pair to do what Michael Oliver did yesterday and stick to your guns but they shouldn’t be put in that position in the first place. I think putting VAR reviews in the hands of captains strikes a balance between human error and correct intervention. Also adds to the drama/excitement if you’ve wasted your referrals and something then gets missed.

 

[JimW1889]

The most exciting thing in football are goals and celebrating them. Like others have said it ruins the spontaneity of celebrating them.

Goal line technology (mostly) works because it happens in real time and once the ref gives the goal it's a goal. Unless VAR can get to a point where it can stop offsides/missed fouls in near real time, before the goal goes in the net, I think it'll always be flawed and ruin the experience.

 

[Sheffsteel]

2. For offsides where there is daylight between the players.... not for fuckin big toes offside or 'was it defender ankle or attacker shoulder'? etc. If the linesman flags, fair enough, he/she should be given a tad of leeway here.... we don't want to have to wait 5 mins for videos to be watched and watched again to determine millimeters. If there is daylight and the linesman plays on, then VAR should over rule. If not, leave it be.

The problem is where ever you move the cut-off point....then they must always be decision based on 1cm....so there will always be human judgement and controversy.

Even the VAR image given by Sky isn't always helpful.
They can still be controversial because the viewing angles aren't in line, so it can mislead & also the VAR lines are quite thick, so "big toe" decisions can be manipulated.
Day light between players gives the edge to opposition players but as I said there will be still be controversy as the daylight might be 0.1cm and unable to be seen on the Sky monitor shown to the public...hence more controversy.

I heard on the radio a few months ago that a new off-side technology will be used in the Qatar World Cup.
Apparently every player wears a number of senses in their short, shorts and socks.
The computer will apparently be able to provide instant offside decisions, this is probably the way forward.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I think the on field ref should be making every decision TBH. Then VAR can overrule if ‘clear and obvious…’ i

but again....what's "clear and obvious" is open to interpretation....so even deciding what goes to VAR will be inconsistent and controversial.

Agree that we should allow the ref to make most decisions, think VAR should only be used for factual errors or maybe asking the ref to quickly view a screen.
Might sound daft but maybe he could wear an oversized watch, to instantly see close up replays of events.

Another view point....is that football is all about controversy...so VAR should be used to a minimum and take out human opinion.
So only use VAR for ball over the line decisions and with better technology offsides.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

The problem is where ever you move the cut-off point....then they must always be decision based on 1cm....so there will always be human judgement and controversy.

Even the VAR image given by Sky isn't always helpful.
They can still be controversial because the viewing angles aren't in line, so it can mislead & also the VAR lines are quite thick, so "big toe" decisions can be manipulated.
Day light between players gives the edge to opposition players but as I said there will be still be controversy as the daylight might be 0.1cm and unable to be seen on the Sky monitor shown to the public...hence more controversy.

I heard on the radio a few months ago that a new off-side technology will be used in the Qatar World Cup.
Apparently every player wears a number of senses in their short, shorts and socks.
The computer will apparently be able to provide instant offside decisions, this is probably the way forward.

Can’t see that going wrong in the slightest. Cue players having their kits scanned with EMP devices in the dressing room…

 

[Ned the Donkey]

Fuck VAR.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

but again....what's "clear and obvious" is open to interpretation....so even deciding what goes to VAR will be inconsistent and controversial.

Agree that we should allow the ref to make most decisions, think VAR should only be used for factual errors or maybe asking the ref to quickly view a screen.
Might sound daft but maybe he could wear an oversized watch, to instantly see close up replays of events.

You have to play the averages. Laws are littered with caveats to help interpretation e.g. an error that any reasonable person, acting diligently would agree is clear and obvious, including but not limited to (examples such as shirt pulling etc)

Of course you can’t remove subjectivity, but I would say 80%+ of football fans would agree both incidents yesterday had an incorrect VAR ruling, which should be enough.

 

[Stevo]

VAR is needed , but so is extra training for the fuckwits in the VAR room, which on yesterday's decisions appeared to be Stevie wonder and ray charles

 

[bakeblade]

VAR is needed , but so is extra training for the fuckwits in the VAR room, which on yesterday's decisions appeared to be Stevie wonder and ray charles

Why is it needed, football flourished for years before VAR

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

It’s the offsides for me. To let Everton celebrate like that only to give it offside ruins the sport imo.

 

[Mark F]

Are we just getting poor officials on the pitch who are involved in VAR now telling younger refs to change their mind and probably spooking them into thinking they have made an error ?

Can be no surprise the best ref in the league was the one who stuck to his original view whilst everyone else was make a right mess of things .

I have always thought it’s very subjective and really you are just at the mercy of a couple of blokes who have very different views on an incident .

Handball for example is a real lottery and basically depends on who the ref is that game .

 

[Bladesman]

Are we just getting poor officials on the pitch who are involved in VAR now telling younger refs to change their mind and probably spooking them into thinking they have made an error ?

Can be no surprise the best ref in the league was the one who stuck to his original view whilst everyone else was make a right mess of things .

I have always thought it’s very subjective and really you are just at the mercy of a couple of blokes who have very different views on an incident .

Handball for example is a real lottery and basically depends on who the ref is that game .

Oddly enough if the ref had not blown the whistle for offside yesterday the Villa 2nd goal would have stood. VAR couldn't overturn that.

That West Ham equalizer decision was a joke but once again the ref went to look at it on a screen. That is just standard shit refereeing.

It's poor refereeing in the UK, it doesn't matter who is in the VAR room.

 

[Proper Blade]

Most of the 'clear and obvious' errors that VAR is picking up are marginal offside calls or highly debatable penalties. Like, if our opposition score and it turns out their striker's toenail was 1cm offside I'm not going to kick up a fuss. It's ridiculous.

The offside rule was originally introduced to prevent players from gaining an unfair advantage. I would argue that in 99% of cases now, when VAR intervenes, the attacking player isn't gaining any kind of advantage by his armpit being marginally offside. It's completely stupid.

Seeing all of the goals awarded then ruled out due to totally ridiculous decisions makes my blood boil. It's killing football and no amount of tweaks are ever going to change it. You're trying to make subjective decisions, like fouls in the box, black and white and they never will be that simple.

 

[jt64]

I still can't believe the lino flagged that second Villa goal rather than leaving it to VAR, if he was as far off as someone usually needs to be in order for them to flag then the striker would have been in the crowd

 

[Stevo]

Too much finan

Why is it needed, football flourished for years before VAR

Too much financially at stake now to be getting the big decisions wrong

 

[Bladesman]

I still can't believe the lino flagged that second Villa goal rather than leaving it to VAR, if he was as far off as someone usually needs to be in order for them to flag then the striker would have been in the crowd

It's fine for him to flag for offside if he thinks there is one but the ref should have let play continue rather than blow. Then go back to VAR to check for an offside.

 

[jt64]

It's fine for him to flag for offside if he thinks there is one but the ref should have let play continue rather than blow. Then go back to VAR to check for an offside.

I mean yes, this is correct, and I'm one that gets incredibly pissed off at them not flagging obvious offsides as it's only a matter of time before we see Battiston 2.0, I am just bewildered how anyone can ever say "yep, def offside, flag up" in a spot where the forward is actually on

 

[Selly]

In the Aston Villa game, for a change the linesman put his flag up but incorrectly gave offside - if he'd delayed flagging, VAR could have checked the goal and it would have been given.

We had a goal given against us in exactly that scenario - have they reverted to the (far more sensible) "if they flag play stops" method?

 

[Bladesman]

I mean yes, this is correct, and I'm one that gets incredibly pissed off at them not flagging obvious offsides as it's only a matter of time before we see Battiston 2.0, I am just bewildered how anyone can ever say "yep, def offside, flag up" in a spot where the forward is actually on

I have seen a linesman watch a deflected cross into the box clearly hitting a defending player and balloon into the KOP yet they still give a goal kick. So I can believe a linesman can just assume an offside.

 

[Mark F]

well

I still can't believe the lino flagged that second Villa goal rather than leaving it to VAR, if he was as far off as someone usually needs to be in order for them to flag then the striker would have been in the crowd

They have been told to raise the flags earlier I think .

Bit too keen obviously.