well that will cancel some trips to Qatar

[103SecondsOfMagic]

Why are football fans who are English but don’t support England so quick to join threads and tell everyone so?
What has changed in the last 20 years that the England football team has nothing to do with the country? They’re all English?

For me, it was the Sven and especially Capello eras that killed it, of just relentlessly selecting big name players despite all the previous failures and poor form. It became impossible to maintain enthusiasm for a side constructed of overrated serial failures like Ashley Cole, Michael Owen, fat Frank etc. It was almost like the transfer fee dictated who played each position.

The current side has repaired some of the damage in my opinion but I remain sadly disenfranchised by English international set up. I back Southgate for what it's worth. I havent watched any Nations League fixtures.

I'd admit I'm not particularly patriotic which probably doesn't help.

Maybe the question should be about what has changed in the last 20 years in England as a whole.

God save the Queen.

Up the Blades

 

[Cheesebored]

I'm fully aware that the gesture is older than Kaepernick but it's his gesture that started the modern phenomenon of 'taking the knee'

So it's not a modern phenomenon. It's laughable that people try and pin it to BLM (not you) to somehow try and tarnish the message. I wouldn't disagree that it may have lost some of it's original power over time but while ever footballers see it as a stand against racism they'll get my backing. It's not the fans choice whether it happens or not, it's the people suffering racism (players) to decide. Some teams are already standing rather than taking the knee and that's fine, whatever they decide. The fact we're having this discussion shows that taking the knee is still having an effect in keeping it to the forefront of people's thoughts. Exactly where it should be.

 

[Gavlar]

It may be that with age, we recognise that the fluke of being born in a particular place isn't as strong a motivation to support that nation's team as the choice we made in 'choosing' our club. As a dual national, I find I don't really care about either national team as much as my club team in each country. If they (ever) do well, I'll enjoy the good times I imagine.

From comments further up the page (and definitely not directed at gordoncharles), perhaps some who no longer feel represented by the national team are troubled by the 'politics' around it; that there are many black players, that they take the knee, that the manager is diplomatic and speaks out against discrimination, that it was good to see them beaten, particularly by Hungary (which I struggle to find any other way to interpret than an allusion to the country's own difficulty in accepting society is overtly racist and without any consciousness that there might be something wrong with that).

To caveat, I know and accept that not all Hungarians are racist, but it's also clear that a racist would find many kindred souls in supporting Hungary.

PC wanker
BarcaBlade

Most people only support blades due to some fluke of them being born in or near sheffield.

 

[Roygbiv]

Agreed, that squad was as badly managed as todays lot and under achieved. But I still believe the 2006 England team would beat the 2022 version.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Although I'm now a variety trumps quality trumps quantity drinker, I'm afraid I have served before the flag on the Unsustainable Units Of Alcohol battalion. When I went to Doha for Brazil v England in 2009, my "attitude" was fuck it, I'm going to get slaughtered. The venue I found myself in was serving Foster's and nothing but Foster's. So, slaughtered (beautifully) on Foster's it was. Just the way we rolled in those days. (FFS)

Head to the Belgian Cafe in the Intercon Beach, Doha Rugby Club, Doha Golf Club, Rose and Thistle, Shehrazad at the Radisson, Hudson Tavern at the Mondrian or Admiral Bar at the Ritz Carlton Hilton has a Trader Vics as well but it’s shit. They were the ones with a decentish beer selection.

 

[Inter_blade83]

Think I might struggle in qatar

Belgian Cafe does craft beer.

 

[Rufus Smalls]

I forgot that the England teams success was based on what they had achieved for the club teams

You didn’t mention success, just ‘best’

So on what basis are the present lot the ‘best’ in 60 years ?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

My friends and I are not 'getting our knickers twisted' about anything. Simply expressing an alternative view. We aren't racist, but don't like the precedent of players making 'virtuous' gestures before the start of games.

You can take the knee as many times as you want. It's a free country so fill yer boots. But as long as it's a free country you're going to have to accept the fact that people who don't agree with gesture politics might want to make their feelings heard too.

So, are you making your feelings heard? I know you're making your point here on this forum. But, that won't be heard by the kneeling players at either SUFC nor England. Are you turning up at Utd games and making your feelings heard when the players take the knee? Are you booing? Have you been to an England game & made your feelings known, by for instance booing?

Is it hypothetical, or real?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Head to the Belgian Cafe in the Intercon Beach, Doha Rugby Club, Doha Golf Club, Rose and Thistle, Shehrazad at the Radisson, Hudson Tavern at the Mondrian or Admiral Bar at the Ritz Carlton Hilton has a Trader Vics as well but it’s shit. They were the ones with a decentish beer selection.

Thanks for the tips. But, for a variety of reasons, I will only be in Doha for World Cup games under "very unusual circumstances". I'm not actively planning on being there. Not my thing, this one.

 

[Inter_blade83]

So, are you making your feelings heard? I know you're making your point here on this forum. But, that won't be heard by the kneeling players at either SUFC nor England. Are you turning up at Utd games and making your feelings heard when the players take the knee? Are you booing? Have you been to an England game & made your feelings known, by for instance booing?

Is it hypothetical, or real?

I'll probably do the typical British thing and mutter ffs under my breath when they do it v Iran in the first game.

 

[Inter_blade83]

Head to the Belgian Cafe in the Intercon Beach, Doha Rugby Club, Doha Golf Club, Rose and Thistle, Shehrazad at the Radisson, Hudson Tavern at the Mondrian or Admiral Bar at the Ritz Carlton Hilton has a Trader Vics as well but it’s shit. They were the ones with a decentish beer selection.

Plenty more have opened recently. A few Mexican bars etc.

I received a pdf with plans for all the entertainment areas and fan parks this week from someone ITK. Plenty of venues to have a drink at.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I support the taking of the knee, or rather did, I think it's outlived it's usefulness now.

But we have to acknowledge that that support has opened Pandora's box on what opinions are allowed in sport.

You see. I don't buy this we've opened Pandora's Box NOW by expressing political opinions in sport. I recently wrote for The Pinch about a team Utd played in 1899. The country that team were from declared WAR on Britain while they were preparing for the match at The Lane. The Captain of that team made the ultimate political gesture in the lead up to the game in a press conference. He declared him & his team supported Britain in the war against the country they were from. Politics intertwining with sport is as old as the hills. I mention Tommie Smith & the damage at Bramall Lane earlier. It's nothing new. If there is a Pandora's Box to be opened, it was 100s of years ago. Not when Didzy knelt & Rhian clenched his fist.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

You see. I don't buy this we've opened Pandora's Box NOW by expressing political opinions in sport. I recently wrote for The Pinch about a team Utd played in 1899. The country that team were from declared WAR on Britain while they were preparing for the match at The Lane. The Captain of that team made the ultimate political gesture in the lead up to the game in a press conference. He declared him & his team supported Britain in the war against the country they were from. Politics intertwining with sport is as old as the hills. I mention Tommie Smith & the damage at Bramall Lane earlier. It's nothing new. If there is a Pandora's Box to be opened, it was 100s of years ago. Not when Didzy knelt & Rhian clenched his fist.

You're talking about individual actions, or at most limited to a team.
Taking the knee was widespread, and sanctioned by footballing authorities across multiple leagues and international tournaments.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

You're talking about individual actions, or at most limited to a team.
Taking the knee was widespread, and sanctioned by footballing authorities across multiple leagues and international tournaments.

Take your general point. Although it's been correctly pointed out, it's still a choice. Some individuals don't do the knee job. The world still turns. Some teams don't do the knee job. The world still turns. Some countries don't do the knee job. Turny. Turny.

I obviously have not supported some individual actions & opinions. When Wilder shot his mouth off about Do Goody Lefties, I thought then - he might as well fuck off now for me.

 

[BarcaBlade]

Most people only support blades due to some fluke of them being born in or near sheffield.

Most, yes, but there is more of an empowered choice than that of supporting a national team. You can buy in and get passionate for pretty much any local team, but it's hard to suddenly decide you love Myanmar or Croatia beyond having them in a sweepstakes or admiring the way they play (if they happen to be having a purple patch).

Personally, I was born nearly 500 km from Bramall Lane and live over 1000km away, but somewhere along the line I made a choice to follow the Blades. It's only anecdotal, but I'm hazarding a guess that there are more people like me supporting clubs that are not a result of where they are born, e.g. half of India supporting Man Utd, Barcelona, or whoever is getting most exposure at the time, than there are people passionately supporting a country they have no personal connection with.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

MLK (Jnr) 1965

View attachment 137576

Booooooo. Disgraceful virtue-signalling gesture politics.

MLK will never achieve anything other than annoying fair-minded non-racists like me and my mates.

I’m not racist but the Civil Rights Movement and “look at me” exhibitionists like this can do one.

That David McGoldrick can piss off too.

 

[Dkc]

View attachment 137714

Booooooo. Disgraceful virtue-signalling gesture politics.

MLK will never achieve anything other than annoying fair-minded non-racists like me and my mates.

I’m not racist but the Civil Rights Movement and “look at me” exhibitionists like this can do one.

That David McGoldrick can piss off too.

I think you are totally missing the point. No one's telling Didsy to "piss off", or saying that the anti-racism movement can "do one".

Here's a picture of Emily Pankhurst, one of the leaders of the movement that made brave sacrifices to gain equal rights for women.

We all know there is a problem with mysogyny at football grounds. More so than racism, in fact. Does this mean that all players should be making gestures showing solidarity with the cause of women's rights before every game played by our local and national football teams? For the rest of time? And if you don't support this, you're a mysogynist yourself? Someone who thinks that equal rights campaigners should "piss off"?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I think you are totally missing the point. No one's telling Didsy to "piss off", or saying that the anti-racism movement can "do one".

Here's a picture of Emily Pankhurst, one of the leaders of the movement that made brave sacrifices to gain equal rights for women.

We all know there is a problem with mysogyny at football grounds. More so than racism, in fact. Does this mean that all players should be making gestures showing solidarity with the cause of women's rights before every game played by our local and national football teams? For the rest of time? And if you don't support this, you're a mysogynist yourself? Someone who thinks that equal rights campaigners should "piss off"?

But, there is a simple dynamic isn't there?

Racists are against players taking the knee.
Emphasising the point - not all those against taking the knee will be racists.
But, racists are against players taking the knee.

You get that, I'm sure.

 

[Dkc]

But, there is a simple dynamic isn't there?

Racists are against players taking the knee.
Emphasising the point - not all those against taking the knee will be racists.
But, racists are against players taking the knee.

You get that, I'm sure.

I'm sure there are will be a tiny minority of real racists among football fans who hate non-white players. They will oppose to taking the knee, of course. They will oppose black and other minority players taking to the field, too. Can't say I have ever met one.

If it was decided that all players should "take a stand against climate change" by making windmill gestures before kick off, some fans would boo too. There might be a few genuine climate change skeptics among them - but I'm sure the majority would be booing the general principle of making virtuous gestures before kick off.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I'm sure there are will be a tiny minority of real racists among football fans who hate non-white players. They will oppose to taking the knee, of course. They will oppose black and other minority players taking to the field, too. Can't say I have ever met one.

If it was decided that all players should "take a stand against climate change" by making windmill gestures before kick off, some fans would boo too. There might be a few genuine climate change skeptics among them - but I'm sure the majority would be booing the general principle of making virtuous gestures before kick off.

I asked above, in post #158, do you boo United players when they take the knee? Do you?

 

[Dkc]

I asked above, in post #158, do you boo United players when they take the knee? Do you?

No, I live in Spain and watch on the telly normally. I did go to the Forest semi final but can't even remember them taking the knee. I think the booing mostly occurs when England play anyway.

 

[Jon B]

We all are.

Ramsdale and Henderson were both called up when at United

Being called up is nice. Making it onto the field during the game is the real deal.

I thought Jack O'Connell was nailed on to be our first full England International since Brian Deane in 1992.

And then our usual luck ......

 

[LudlamBlade]

I'm sure there are will be a tiny minority of real racists among football fans who hate non-white players.

I think you might be underestimating the depth of the issue.

Fifa study of Euros & Afcon finds half of all players abused online; Saka & Rashford most targeted

World governing body Fifa teams up with players' union Fifpro to identify people who target players with abusive social media posts.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

I think you might be underestimating the depth of the issue.

Fifa study of Euros & Afcon finds half of all players abused online; Saka & Rashford most targeted

World governing body Fifa teams up with players' union Fifpro to identify people who target players with abusive social media posts.

www.bbc.co.uk

Only half of all players at the euros and ACoN have been abused online? I would have thought the number would be closer to 100%.

 

[Inter_blade83]

Only half of all players at the euros and ACoN have been abused online? I would have thought the number would be closer to 100%.

If you called someone a twat online, is it abuse?

Do we have to rethink the twats thread?