The 2 great what ifs of United History

[Darren]

1. If Givens had scored that pen against Walsall in May 81
2. If Webber's shot had gone in v Wigan in May 07

How do people think United's history would have turned out in either scenario?

Nice bit of alternative history for a Friday PM...

---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------

Add to that a third..

If Mark Stein had hit the post in the 89th minute at Stamford Bridge in May 94.

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

You're forgetting the "what if Maradona had been signed?"

 

[Selly]

1. If Givens had scored that pen against Walsall in May 81
2. If Webber's shot had gone in v Wigan in May 07

How do people think United's history would have turned out in either scenario?

Nice bit of alternative history for a Friday PM...

---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------

Add to that a third..

If Mark Stein had hit the post in the 89th minute at Stamford Bridge in May 94.

Cant really comment on 1 as I was 4 at the time, however...

2. We'd probably have found a way to lose anyway. Had we stayed up I think we had a real opportunity to consolidate the season after. In order to do so we would probably have had to get rid of Mr Warnock though.

3. In Blake we had actually found the 15 goal a season man that we lacked from the previous summer when we sold Deano. I could have seens us consolidating until finally getting relegated 2 or 3 years later. We would however not have had to play for 2-3 years in a 3 sided ground...

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Under scenario 2, I think we'd probably still be in the Premiership. Kenny, Morgs, Jags, Monty and Tonge would all still make up the spine of the team, and investment that summer would have added some extra talent - there were strong rumours that a deal had been lined up for Joey Barton in the event we'd stay up.

I'm slightly less confident we'd have stayed up under scenario 3. Was our squad that good? Arguably Blake would have scored goals (and had he been there the whole of 93/94 might have done enough to keep us up), but I'm not convinced we'd have had enough to hold on another year.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

1. If Givens had scored that pen against Walsall in May 81
2. If Webber's shot had gone in v Wigan in May 07

How do people think United's history would have turned out in either scenario?

Nice bit of alternative history for a Friday PM...

---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------

Add to that a third..

If Mark Stein had hit the post in the 89th minute at Stamford Bridge in May 94.

Biggest what if:

What if Hagan had been made manager?

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

What if we'd beaten Derby County and one other and been League Champions in 1974-75?

 

[BerksBlade]

What if we'd beaten Derby County and one other and been League Champions in 1974-75?

Now that's a question! 4 points off the League Champions.....
At the time I remember feeling gutted at finishing 6th and not getting into Europe after the season we'd had. Little did I know that was the highpoint!

 

[blade too long]

What if we had the boaRD THAT WAS AT OLD TRAFFORD IN 1993

 

[BladeFisher]

1. If Givens had scored that pen against Walsall in May 81
2. If Webber's shot had gone in v Wigan in May 07

How do people think United's history would have turned out in either scenario?

Nice bit of alternative history for a Friday PM...

---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------

Add to that a third..

If Mark Stein had hit the post in the 89th minute at Stamford Bridge in May 94.

The main reason we got relegated in 2007 was our inability to score goals away. With NW's cautious approach we were just too cautious and when Hulse got injured it was relegation certainty as I posted at the time. Tevez was a red herring. We got relegated fair and square. For some reason I always feel Utd are an unlucky club, take that sem-final v Arsenal. The best we played in a SF in my lifetime...and we still lost.

As for Givens' missed pen had we not got relegated we would have struggled. Porterfield was a breath of fresh air - Keith and Colin magic combo.

And Stein? We we're just friggin unlucky again. Don't think we would have survived the following season anyhow as Bassett's subsequent departure showed.

 

[Bladesman]

The main reason we got relegated in 2007 was our inability to score goals away. With NW's cautious approach we were just too cautious and when Hulse got injured it was relegation certainty as I posted at the time. Tevez was a red herring. We got relegated fair and square. For some reason I always feel Utd are an unlucky club, take that sem-final v Arsenal. The best we played in a SF in my lifetime...and we still lost.

As for Givens' missed pen had we not got relegated we would have struggled. Porterfield was a breath of fresh air - Keith and Colin magic combo.

And Stein? We we're just friggin unlucky again. Don't think we would have survived the following season anyhow as Bassett's subsequent departure showed.

I do agree we bossed Arsenal at OT and we were soooo unlucky not to win that game but also the man in the middle played his devious role in that game.

When it comes to the crunch history tends to repeat itself.

 

[Silent Blade]

If Paolo Di Canio didnt push that ref, would Danny Wilson have been a great manager at Wendy?

 

[JohnDenver]

Tevez was a red herring. We got relegated fair and square.

Release the hounds!

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

What if Dries Boussatta had stayed?

 

[Jon Bon]

(To 'We Plough the Fields and Scatter')

His name is Dries Bousasatta, the wizard of the wing
He's only five foot seven but he's the fastest thing
He scores goals in the winter
In sunshine and in rain
His name is Dries Bousasatta
The king of Bramall Lane

What if Dries Boussatta had stayed?

We would have got to sing one of the finest songs in the club's history. Sadly, it was never to be....

 

[cahill]

Sorry to be a party pooper but can't see the point of "what ifs".

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

What if the 'Brownie Brigade' had demonstarted after Millwall at home in 2005 and had Warnock removed ?

 

[raul]

First time I seriously contemplated relegation in 06/07 was Newcastle at home. First time I felt it's cold breath on my face was Villa away. It was the shock of relegation as much as the event itself which hurt. Had we stayed up, I was confident we could have negotiated the difficult second season syndrome because

a) Warnock was going - we couldn't have repeated 06/07 and survived on passion
b) McCabe would have spent as he should have the year before
c) We would have been able to attract better players as we would have been seen as a lesser risk for relegation as well as paying the going rate.

The club at the time was set up for a serious tilt at becoming an established Premiership club. Many Bradford fans still refer to Richmond's "six weeks of madness" which both shot all his successes to that date to pieces and buggered the club up for the rest of its days. May/June 07 was Supers equivalent.

 

[muttsnuts]

First time I seriously contemplated relegation in 06/07 was Newcastle at home. First time I felt it's cold breath on my face was Villa away. It was the shock of relegation as much as the event itself which hurt. Had we stayed up, I was confident we could have negotiated the difficult second season syndrome because

a) Warnock was going - we couldn't have repeated 06/07 and survived on passion
b) McCabe would have spent as he should have the year before
c) We would have been able to attract better players as we would have been seen as a lesser risk for relegation as well as paying the going rate.

The club at the time was set up for a serious tilt at becoming an established Premiership club. Many Bradford fans still refer to Richmond's "six weeks of madness" which both shot all his successes to that date to pieces and buggered the club up for the rest of its days. May/June 07 was Supers equivalent.

What if a certain goalie had'nt thrown the game at Everton?

 

[gavtheblade]

if peschisolidos header had beaten seaman.

 

[silverfox]

if peschisolidos header had beaten seaman.

Perhaps the best save I have seen live!

Bugger!

 

[gavtheblade]

if the robbie fowler penalty was not awarded for liverpool on the opening day of the season.if tevez had not even been born...this list is endless.

 

[bricktop]

What if the 'Brownie Brigade' had demonstarted after Millwall at home in 2005 and had Warnock removed ?

Prehaps we might have got a manager who could after taking us up, kept us there, and not wasted millions of pounds on carthorses such as Akinbiyi, Horsfield, Davis and plenty of others.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Prehaps we might have got a manager who could after taking us up, kept us there, and not wasted millions of pounds on carthorses such as Akinbiyi, Horsfield, Davis and plenty of others.

Or perhaps we could have sunk to where we are now a few years earlier

 

[super_pig]

>You're forgetting the "what if Maradona had been signed?"
he'd have had the shit kicked out of him for a year and then signed for leeds.. just like AS did

 

[Terry Poole]

Interesting topic.

80/81 - Probably an (embarassing) blessing, as Hassall, Peters, and Haslam all left and allowed Brearley and Porterfield to rebuild. Think we would have gone down the following season had we survived and Peters been left in charge. According to Tony Kenworthy, Peters wanted him and a few others like McPhail out, because he wanted a more cultured approach - which as we are about to find out may not be easy in the Third Division. It does feel like we are about to experience the same wilderness years as 78-81 - which I quite enjoyed in a peverse way - you tend to appreciate the better years then.

93/94 - This was the real sickener. I think we could have become established in the PL instead of tin pot clubs like Bolton and Wigan had we survived a couple of seasons more in the PL. Although it would have been up to Dave Bassett because there would have been zero support from Reg Brearley. Bassett would have had to start replacing some of older members of the team like Hodges and Gayle - I think he would have kept us in the PL for a few seasons and we could have become established.

06/07 - Had we survived we would have spent some brass to stay in the PL but I think Warnock would have gone and with McCabe's track record of appointing managers - I dread to think who we would have appointed. Mebbes Robbo would have done even more long term damage with his signings had we been in the PL. Warnock did get the best out of some limited players that season and we very nearly survived and would have done had we had a decent replacement for Hulse.

Agree with Super Pig - Maradona would have been kicked to S**t in the 3rd Division. Although we would never have paid the $1M+ Transfer fee.

 

[Darren]

Interesting topic.

80/81 - Probably an (embarassing) blessing, as Hassall, Peters, and Haslam all left and allowed Brearley and Porterfield to rebuild. Think we would have gone down the following season had we survived and Peters been left in charge. According to Tony Kenworthy, Peters wanted him and a few others like McPhail out, because he wanted a more cultured approach - which as we are about to find out may not be easy in the Third Division. It does feel like we are about to experience the same wilderness years as 78-81 - which I quite enjoyed in a peverse way - you tend to appreciate the better years then.

93/94 - This was the real sickener. I think we could have become established in the PL instead of tin pot clubs like Bolton and Wigan had we survived a couple of seasons more in the PL. Although it would have been up to Dave Bassett because there would have been zero support from Reg Brearley. Bassett would have had to start replacing some of older members of the team like Hodges and Gayle - I think he would have kept us in the PL for a few seasons and we could have become established.

06/07 - Had we survived we would have spent some brass to stay in the PL but I think Warnock would have gone and with McCabe's track record of appointing managers - I dread to think who we would have appointed. Mebbes Robbo would have done even more long term damage with his signings had we been in the PL. Warnock did get the best out of some limited players that season and we very nearly survived and would have done had we had a decent replacement for Hulse.

Agree with Super Pig - Maradona would have been kicked to S**t in the 3rd Division. Although we would never have paid the $1M+ Transfer fee.

I can't agree on 80-81. It was a bit of a freak occurence, the relegation in 80-81. We went down with what, under 3 points for a win would have been 55 points and with a positive goal difference (not sure if anyone has ever gone down under the 3 points for a win system with so many points). The 80-81 side was certainly, on paper, good enough to stay in the 3rd tier and, in any event, I think a narrow (and still embarressing escape) from relegation would have seen whole hearted changes anyway - possibly including Peters' resignation/sacking and Brealey taking over.

 

[Slugger]

Not the most obvious "what if" but the most sickening for me was the sale of Fjortoft and Deane when we were flying high under Spackman (the last unbeaten team in England that year). Playing the best stuff I've ever seen a Blades team play McGrath controlling a 3 man central defence Borbokis and Quinn as wing-backs ... As I recall our 1st loss was on a Tuesday or Weds evening on the day the first player was sold over Spackman's head. I am convinced we would have been promoted that year with at least half the first team being confortably Premier league standard (unlike previous promotions).

 

[Darren]

Not the most obvious "what if" but the most sickening for me was the sale of Fjortoft and Deane when we were flying high under Spackman (the last unbeaten team in England that year). Playing the best stuff I've ever seen a Blades team play McGrath controlling a 3 man central defence Borbokis and Quinn as wing-backs ... As I recall our 1st loss was on a Tuesday or Weds evening on the day the first player was sold over Spackman's head. I am convinced we would have been promoted that year with at least half the first team being confortably Premier league standard (unlike previous promotions).

Sorry, a few inaccuracies there. Our first deafeat was at West Brom on Saturday 25th Oct and we lost three more games after that before Deane and Fjortoft were sold in Jan. Also McGrath played his last game in Nov and didn't play again due to injury. Whilst we were consistently in the play off places up to Jan, we are hardly ever been in the automatic places - basically because we were drawing too many games.

 

[Terry Poole]

I can't agree on 80-81. It was a bit of a freak occurence, the relegation in 80-81. We went down with what, under 3 points for a win would have been 55 points and with a positive goal difference (not sure if anyone has ever gone down under the 3 points for a win system with so many points). The 80-81 side was certainly, on paper, good enough to stay in the 3rd tier and, in any event, I think a narrow (and still embarressing escape) from relegation would have seen whole hearted changes anyway - possibly including Peters' resignation/sacking and Brealey taking over.

We'll never know ! But it's fun to speculate. Had we not been releagted I don't think Peters would have gone and I don't think Hassall would have gone either. So we would have limped into the 81/82 season with Peters until he resigned mid way through when he couldn't cope with the rough and tough 3rd division, leaving the club in crisis and ultimate relegation ! But possibly more importantly - with Hassall still in charge, Brearley wouldn't have had the authority to launch the share flotation which ultimately lumbered him with the majority shareholding. His intention was always to act as a consultant and not become the majority shareholder.

 

[davidpinder]

What if warnock had played McCall instead of Mark Rankine in the playoff final and we'd beaten Wolves then the triple assault side would have had a go at the premier league.