Outgoing? SANDER BERGE ON WAY OUT ?

[Mouth of the South]

You may well be right but their wage bills were substantially higher than ours in the premier league. We had one of the lowest the league has seen in recent years.

the prince said he planned to keep the core of the squad together and we were not under pressure to sell anyone. He said we needed to be in the PL for two seasons to cover the expense of buying the facilities from McCabe - mission accomplished.

has anyone from the club actually said we need to sell players to cover the change in income? The players had relegation clauses in their contracts and we should have finished paying the bulk of the facilities off the Prince spoke about after two years.

im pretty sure we’re absolutely fine without selling anyone for at least this season hence why they’re setting asking prices and sticking to them.

they said all along we were building a sustainable model so if we came down we’d be alright.

I don't think it would be particularly wise for the club to advertise that they need to sell - what would you expect prospective buyers to do by way of response??

Utd did indeed have a low wage bill in relation to most other Prem sides over the last 2 years (although Norwich's was only slightly higher in 2019/20). However, Utd's net spend on transfers was far higher (and actually one of the highest in the league) so I wouldn't be too sure about monies not needing to be recouped. Hopefully if Ramsdale and / or Berge go, it will provide what's required to address the shortfall in revenue next season and provide SJ with funds to invest in order to improve the squad.

 

[Mouth of the South]

Didn’t we have the lowest wage Bill in the premier, if so would we need to off load as we will still have a cheap wage bill with jags and a few others off that

Tbh I don't know - only the Board are likely to know the true answer to that. Wages are one thing but the outlay on transfers is another. Thankfully, by acquiring mainly young players with potential to further improve, the values of most will have increased.

 

[ben1987]

I don't think it would be particularly wise for the club to advertise that they need to sell - what would you expect prospective buyers to do by way of response??

Utd did indeed have a low wage bill in relation to most other Prem sides over the last 2 years (although Norwich's was only slightly higher in 2019/20). However, Utd's net spend on transfers was far higher (and actually one of the highest in the league) so I wouldn't be too sure about monies not needing to be recouped. Hopefully if Ramsdale and / or Berge go, it will provide what's required to address the shortfall in revenue next season and provide SJ with funds to invest in order to improve the squad.

Nope you’re right if they came out and said we must sell our players we would have absolutely no chance of negotiating a good deal.

I just think the media and the forum have done a lot of 2+2=5 when it comes to the revenue dropping by £40m assuming we then must sell £40m in assets to cover it.

I don’t think Jokanovic would have taken the job without assurances he could tweak the squad / there would be some money available.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

I don't see Berge leaving now. I don't think he's done enough for us to warrant a club paying what we expect/ need. If we sold him now we'd probably make a loss and this was the opposite reason we brought him in for. From what you hear he was a player we felt in the future we'd make money on that was available at the time.

Ramsdale could, Arsenals interest seems permanent and unfortunately, we know how that usually plays out. Should Ramsdale go for say £20m there wouldn't be any need for Berge to go, we'd have plenty of funds available. This doesn't however mean I think we need to sell Ramsdale to keep Berge, I think we can financially keep both. I just see the Ramsdale situation ending with him leaving.

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

I saw his car today at BDTBL.
Nice black Range Rover.

I saw that, wondered who’s it was. It was the only flash motor in the car park, wonder why he was there?

 

[Wards]

I’m not convinced he’ll leave either, least not until January if he can prove his fitness. Could be a beast in this league if he shows what he’s capable of.

 

[Russ]

I saw that, wondered who’s it was. It was the only flash motor in the car park, wonder why he was there?

Probably just something like someone giving him a lift in to training or had to pop to the Lane for something.

 

[ancientblade]

as much as i rate rammy i would sooner him be sold rather than berge just think it would be easier to replace him than sander and as somebody has already said he could be a beast in this league

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

True but their respective clubs all sold other players for substantial amounts to offset the drop in revenue. Utd are still to do that. It will be interesting to see the outcome should no asking price offers be received for Berge or Ramsdale - will the club be able to suck it up and manage for another season (but impacting funds for new signings) or will they panic and accept lower offers?

We do have the money saved from not spending in Jan which would offset the £40 odd million we may have needed to find. No massively obviously but didn’t WBA and Fulham spunk over £10M on loans?
Alternatively the owners may think that if the bids don’t come in they’ll cover it for a year and then have a significant sale if we don’t go back up and the books need balancing. It’s not like Berge or Rammers won’t be in demand for the right price, even if that is £25M rather than £35M in Jan or the summer.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

as much as i rate rammy i would sooner him be sold rather than berge just think it would be easier to replace him than sander and as somebody has already said he could be a beast in this league

But I get the impression Ramsdale is happy to stay, whereas Berge is not. Tough one.

 

[Mouth of the South]

We do have the money saved from not spending in Jan which would offset the £40 odd million we may have needed to find. No massively obviously but didn’t WBA and Fulham spunk over £10M on loans?
Alternatively the owners may think that if the bids don’t come in they’ll cover it for a year and then have a significant sale if we don’t go back up and the books need balancing. It’s not like Berge or Rammers won’t be in demand for the right price, even if that is £25M rather than £35M in Jan or the summer.

You may well be right FB. The Board's decision not to sanction CW's very strong push to recruit loans at considerable cost when the club were all but down is looking like a wise move now.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

You may well be right FB. The Board's decision not to sanction CW's very strong push to recruit loans at considerable cost when the club were all but down is looking like a wise move now.

It’s all easy in hindsight I guess.

 

[Scarebus]

I saw his car today at BDTBL.
Nice black Range Rover.

Wasn't 8 SB was it? That's Bettis' motor.

Did it have lots of boxes in the back and a shifty looking forum member in the hedge?

 

[JayGreen17]

as much as i rate rammy i would sooner him be sold rather than berge just think it would be easier to replace him than sander and as somebody has already said he could be a beast in this league

Completely agree with this, I don’t think Ramsdale is irreplaceable

 

[Charlieblade]

Who ever put the 35m release clause in Berge’s contract, was probably thinking of his potential value after 2 years playing well in the PL.
Covid, lockdown, form, injury and other factors turned that money into a distinct advantage for us, whatever happens now.
His agent might not like it, but he will have to accept it.
I believe Berge would be best served by getting his head down with us, and proving that potential valuation to be correct. It might work in spite of, or because of, him tearing up the EFL for a season?

 

[Keen Blade]

I hate it when someone tests my resolve in the holes.

Don't play golf then.

 

[Le Cynique]

Don't play golf then.

My attempts could barely be described as playing, don’t worry

 

[Keen Blade]

SB is a classy cultured player who was not suited to our system or style in the PL.
He is not a "beast who will tear up the Championship" , where his dislike of the physical side will be more exposed.
Can he win a challenge for a header ? Can he even head the ball unchallenged ? Does he put in a good corner ? Can he hit a free kick ? Is he a creative MF or more suited to merely bringing the ball out of defence ? Have you ever seen him do something unexpected with the ball which cuts open a defence ?
He's returning from a serious injury + fancies a career at a higher level so I don't see him putting his body on the line for an EFL club.
If we keep him , I hope he proves my doubts are misplaced.
But my suspicion is that for his fee we could find a CB or a MF who is more suited to our immediate objective.

 

[Yogi]

Who ever put the 35m release clause in Berge’s contract, was probably thinking of his potential value after 2 years playing well in the PL.
Covid, lockdown, form, injury and other factors turned that money into a distinct advantage for us, whatever happens now.
His agent might not like it, but he will have to accept it.
I believe Berge would be best served by getting his head down with us, and proving that potential valuation to be correct. It might work in spite of, or because of, him tearing up the EFL for a season?

Think his release clause was 45 if we were still in the prem the 35 is definitely a relegation release clause it’s the injury the probably stopped us getting more interest in him this summer with him having missed 2/3rds of the season.

 

[finlaytheblade]

SB is a classy cultured player who was not suited to our system or style in the PL.
He is not a "beast who will tear up the Championship" , where his dislike of the physical side will be more exposed.
Can he win a challenge for a header ? Can he even head the ball unchallenged ? Does he put in a good corner ? Can he hit a free kick ? Is he a creative MF or more suited to merely bringing the ball out of defence ? Have you ever seen him do something unexpected with the ball which cuts open a defence ?
He's returning from a serious injury + fancies a career at a higher level so I don't see him putting his body on the line for an EFL club.
If we keep him , I hope he proves my doubts are misplaced.
But my suspicion is that for his fee we could find a CB or a MF who is more suited to our immediate objective.

A lot of what you say is quite true ! I have thought the same he has a lot to prove to meet his release clause .
If he wants to play in the champions league he has a lot to do.
He should be really focused on doing the necessary to meet his dream.
He could easily become yesterdays man ! He has to get his finger out and show the qualities needed.That goes for rest of the squad as this season is going to be tough !
If they want premiership football they will have to be at it from the off.

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

Berge is worth much more to us if we keep him it doesn't make sense to sell him unless he demands a move or someone pays £40 mill

Keep him and go up we make £100 mill + again with Prem money and you would think we could sell him for the same price as we can this summer and more

If we stay down we would still be able to sell him just for less than what were wanting now you would think

Same goes for Ramsdale

 

[Need4speed]

I think if he wants Champios League football the move would have to be abroad, which I would prefer to be honest. But Spain is out, noones any money, French football finances in free fall. Italy ok but the rumours from clubs there seem to be way under what we want. That basically leaves Germany or to another European League which overall is possibly worse than the Championship

 

[Skiliman]

Can see him sticking round until January, think some clubs will hesitate to pay out asking price until he’s played a few games. Would probably be in our best interests too.

 

[alcoblade]

Berge is worth much more to us if we keep him it doesn't make sense to sell him unless he demands a move or someone pays £40 mill

Keep him and go up we make £100 mill + again with Prem money and you would think we could sell him for the same price as we can this summer and more

If we stay down we would still be able to sell him just for less than what were wanting now you would think

Same goes for Ramsdale

It makes you wonder why clubs sell any players. They should hold onto them all, go up, and collect £100m +.

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

It makes you wonder why clubs sell any players. They should hold onto them all, go up, and collect £100m +.

Yeah thats a great point you make there

 

[Wards]

Could potentially get a very good loan fee for him (i.e. £5m or so plus whatever you save in wages) for 12 months. Comes back to us if we get promoted...win/win?

 

[KiwiBlade]

Could potentially get a very good loan fee for him (i.e. £5m or so plus whatever you save in wages) for 12 months. Comes back to us if we get promoted...win/win?

Trouble is, a loan is not really beneficial for us. Given our significant lack of depth in midfield, we'd be far better off keeping him and playing him.

I'm not sure where all this talk of him being unsettled and wanting to leave has come from as I've never seen anything concrete to confirm this theory. Quite the contrary in fact, he seems to be the model professional and I'd be very surprised if he's angling for a move, I'd suspect it's just his agent doing his job and putting feelers out to give his client additional income.

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

Wasn't 8 SB was it? That's Bettis' motor.

Did it have lots of boxes in the back and a shifty looking forum member in the hedge?

It didn’t have a private reg

 

[JohnGannonsPerm]

I don't think he's done anything in his time here to warrant a rise in his price tag. That's not a slagging him off thing but just an observation that he's not played enough to do so IMO. I feel in a way he owes us at least half a season in the Championship and possibly would benefit himself from doing so. He doesn't give me the impression that he's someone to throw the toys out either.
That being said, if we do get a decent offer and we are in need of funds (as per the rumours) then so be it, it won't be a selling both our strikers on the same day kinda feeling for me.

 

[Keen Blade]

Berge is worth much more to us if we keep him it doesn't make sense to sell him unless he demands a move or someone pays £40 mill

Keep him and go up we make £100 mill + again with Prem money and you would think we could sell him for the same price as we can this summer and more

If we stay down we would still be able to sell him just for less than what were wanting now you would think

Same goes for Ramsdale

Can you address the issue of what Berge actually adds to our play ?
If he stays , how do you see him being used in our formation ?
It seemed to me he didn't really cut it at RMF when he replaced LunnyCunt.
Do you see him as direct competition for Norwood in the "quarterback" role ?
If so , do you see enough offensive creativity coming from Bogle & Fleck ?
Apologies for the amercanisms but they're good shorthand.