Today's Hot Take MkII

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Athleticism, athleticism, athleticism.

Once again it was boys V men.

For all the hurrah about a new manager, we really need a total rethink of our strength and conditioning department.

 

[Davalon]

Wilder talked about athleticism being on the radar last year but did little about it

 

[Nagima]

Athleticism, athleticism, athleticism.

Once again it was boys V men.

For all the hurrah about a new manager, we really need a total rethink of our strength and conditioning department.

Agree...but there is even more for the new manager to do. We need to inject some variety and pace into how we attack rather than push to the corner flags all day.

 

[Athens Blade]

He did sign Forrest Burke

 

[SUFCinks]

Bollocks, the team is full of athletic types/runners and they cant string basic passes together or beat a man. They lack technical ability.
The whole reason we are shit in the prem is the fact they cant compete in footballing ability terms. They are great at running around like headless chickens but not very good at anything else.

burke
Osborne
Baldock
Enda
Bash
Fleck

These are all ‘athletic’ players that started today but couldnt impose any skill or ability on the game. Even didzy whos one of our slowest players was almost as quick as Townsend across 20/30 yards.

the reason we are in this mess is because we lack ability.

 

[SouthportBlade]

Bollocks, the team is full of athletic types/runners and they cant string basic passes together or beat a man. They lack technical ability.
The whole reason we are shit in the prem is the fact they cant compete in footballing ability terms. They are great at running around like headless chickens but not very good at anything else.

burke
Osborne
Baldock
Enda
Bash
Fleck

These are all ‘athletic’ players that started today but couldnt impose any skill or ability on the game. Even didzy whos one of our slowest players was almost as quick as Townsend across 20/30 yards.

the reason we are in this mess is because we lack ability.

Think the interpretation of Athletic is VERY different here - I'd view this as pace / power / strength

Basham Baldock and Osborn are 'fit', not remotely 'athletic'

Fleck?? Falls under no definition of athletic in any shape or form.

Burke is the only one you could argue, as he's fast as fuck - but has shepherd's pie between the ears.

I'd agree with the point that we just arent very good mind you.

 

[SUFCinks]

Think the interpretation of Athletic is VERY different here - I'd view this as pace / power / strength

Basham Baldock and Osborn are 'fit', not remotely 'athletic'

Fleck?? Falls under no definition of athletic in any shape or form.

Burke is the only one you could argue, as he's fast as fuck - but has shepherd's pie between the ears.

I'd agree with the point that we just arent very good mind you.

Endurance is all part of athleticism in my eyes. They have good ‘engines’. Considering they spend 90 mins chasing the ball like a pack of street dogs (probably why they are fucked when they get the ball).
The way i see it is you can teach any kid to run around and some pros will do well out of having basic ability but will track a man and do the basics. But to compete in the prem you need more than that. Ability is much harder to gain than fitness/strength, you either have it or you don’t.

Don't get me wrong i agree that athleticism is important but i think Burke highlights why its secondary to ability every time. If we had 11 didzies vs 11 burkes i know who i’d put my money on (although there’s a chance it would be 0-0).

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Endurance is all part of athleticism in my eyes. They have good ‘engines’. Considering they spend 90 mins chasing the ball like a pack of street dogs (probably why they are fucked when they get the ball).
The way i see it is you can teach any kid to run around and some pros will do well out of having basic ability but will track a man and do the basics. But to compete in the prem you need more than that. Ability is much harder to gain than fitness/strength, you either have it or you don’t.

Don't get me wrong i agree that athleticism is important but i think Burke highlights why its secondary to ability every time. If we had 11 didzies vs 11 burkes i know who i’d put my money on (although there’s a chance it would be 0-0).

I'm not wanting to cause an argument or offend - but you're just plain wrong.

The evidence is there. We're second to every loose ball, too slow when we get possession, a yard short on pace in every foot race, second to every header, on our heels every time there's a break. It's been like this all season.

Burke is fast, but isn't dynamic in his movement. He runs fast in a straight line, but isn't explosive in his jumping, tackling or pressing.

The contrast to last year when we on our toes and like a harbour shark is startling.

Your point is valid, we lack serious technical ability, but last season (and the promotion season in the Championship) what we lacked in ability we made up for with energy, verve and athleticism.

This year we've fallen off a cliff. Why? I honestly don't know, but watching, this has been the biggest difference between the two seasons.

 

[SUFCinks]

I'm not wanting to cause an argument or offend - but you're just plain wrong.

The evidence is there. We're second to every loose ball, too slow when we get possession, a yard short on pace in every foot race, second to every header, on our heels every time there's a break. It's been like this all season.

Burke is fast, but isn't dynamic in his movement. He runs fast in a straight line, but isn't explosive in his jumping, tackling or pressing.

The contrast to last year when we on our toes and like a harbour shark is startling.

Your point is valid, we lack serious technical ability, but last season (and the promotion season in the Championship) what we lacked in ability we made up for with energy, verve and athleticism.

This year we've fallen off a cliff. Why? I honestly don't know, but watching, this has been the biggest difference between the two seasons.

No offence taken, its a forum where people with largerly different views but same interests express them.

i disagree personally.

Wilder was actively recruiting athletic players and his training sessions were geared up towards fitness over trying to improve ability. I think at champ/league 1 level you can bypass the leagues standard by out working the oppo but not in the prem.

Eze who was being touted as too lazy to join us (ie not athletic enough) ripped us apart today. You dont need blistering pace when you can glide past players with ease and split the defence with 1 pass.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

No offence taken, its a forum where people with largerly different views but same interests express them.

i disagree personally.

Wilder was actively recruiting athletic players and his training sessions were geared up towards fitness over trying to improve ability. I think at champ/league 1 level you can bypass the leagues standard by out working the oppo but not in the prem.

Eze who was being touted as too lazy to join us (ie not athletic enough) ripped us apart today. You dont need blistering pace when you can glide past players with ease and split the defence with 1 pass.

Mate, pace doesn't = athleticism.

Take our old friend Basham as an example. Lasts season he was like a Duracell bunny. Full of beans. Causing havoc for players like Zaha (direct comparison with today's game). Whatever the occasion, he was always on it. Think back to 'Basham arriving' at Elland Rd.

Now compare contrast with this iteration who looks slow, lethargic, on his heels, flat footed.

You could say the same of Stevens, Fleck, Norwood, Egan...

Now either they've all got old overnight, or something in the physical preparation is significantly different this season.

 

[Kevincarterversion2.0]

Wilder talked about athleticism being on the radar last year but did little about it

CW thought Burke covered off this requirement. Big mistake.

 

[Barnette]

Fitness in the brain is lacking - too slow to anticipate, and too slow to react.

 

[DronnieBlade]

It’s a factor. No doubting that.

The speed at which the whole team seem capable of moving the ball about the pitch, including my pet hate of not passing in “to stride” going behind the man instead, thus slowing any forward momentum we look like achieving, is quite another !!

UTB.

 

[Gannon's perm]

I'm not wanting to cause an argument or offend - but you're just plain wrong.

The evidence is there. We're second to every loose ball, too slow when we get possession, a yard short on pace in every foot race, second to every header, on our heels every time there's a break. It's been like this all season.

Burke is fast, but isn't dynamic in his movement. He runs fast in a straight line, but isn't explosive in his jumping, tackling or pressing.

The contrast to last year when we on our toes and like a harbour shark is startling.

Your point is valid, we lack serious technical ability, but last season (and the promotion season in the Championship) what we lacked in ability we made up for with energy, verve and athleticism.

This year we've fallen off a cliff. Why? I honestly don't know, but watching, this has been the biggest difference between the two seasons.

Totally agree, we are seriously lacking in technical ability. That gap can bridged somewhat, with effort, fight and determination. We saw that in L1, when we are able to give PL teams, like Fulham, Man Utd, Spurs X2 and Hull a decent game.

Palace like the teams before them, could have had 3/4/5. We can't keep a game tight and create absolutely nothing. We have absolutely no idea how to attack teams. For the amount of chances we create, I'm amazed that we've managed to get 18 goals.

 

[SUFCinks]

Mate, pace doesn't = athleticism.

Take our old friend Basham as an example. Lasts season he was like a Duracell bunny. Full of beans. Causing havoc for players like Zaha (direct comparison with today's game). Whatever the occasion, he was always on it. Think back to 'Basham arriving' at Elland Rd.

Now compare contrast with this iteration who looks slow, lethargic, on his heels, flat footed.

You could say the same of Stevens, Fleck, Norwood, Egan...

Now either they've all got old overnight, or something in the physical preparation is significantly different this season.

“Mate, pace doesn't = athleticism.” I’m guessing you meant endurance? So what are long distance runners? Mo Farah etc? Will have to agree to disagree with that one.

I dont disagree with some of what you are saying, they are miles off but bash has just come back from injury. I think they are shot of confidence and are tired as well. One of our key USPs last season was about out working the oppo. It worked well and but clearly when it starts going wrong it goes really wrong. When the players burn out then they dont have the required ability to compete then what do they offer? Obviously ideally you would have a team full of athletic players with loads of ability but that team would cost a fortune.

Essentially what i’m saying is if your athletic team (which we were last season) burns out and they dont have the ability required to compete then you are really fucked. There are many players with great ability who aren't blessed with athleticism who perform at the highest levels.

 

[robbiez666]

Bollocks, the team is full of athletic types/runners and they cant string basic passes together or beat a man. They lack technical ability.
The whole reason we are shit in the prem is the fact they cant compete in footballing ability terms. They are great at running around like headless chickens but not very good at anything else.

burke
Osborne
Baldock
Enda
Bash
Fleck

These are all ‘athletic’ players that started today but couldnt impose any skill or ability on the game. Even didzy whos one of our slowest players was almost as quick as Townsend across 20/30 yards.

the reason we are in this mess is because we lack ability.

In what way is Fleck and athlete?

 

[SUFCinks]

In what way is Fleck and athlete?

He was in the top 40 players for ground covered last season. Only a few places off De Bruyne

 

[Balham]

It’s a factor. No doubting that.

The speed at which the whole team seem capable of moving the ball about the pitch, including my pet hate of not passing in “to stride” going behind the man instead, thus slowing any forward momentum we look like achieving, is quite another !!

UTB.

Every time that happens I'm torn between being annoyed that it's slowed is down and bring relieved that we've not just passed straight to the opposition. The number of simple passes we misplace is astounding.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Every time that happens I'm turn between being annoyed that it's slowed is down and bring relieved that we've not just passed straight to the opposition.

And that happens far too frequently as well.

Back to basics this pre season.

UTB

 

[robbiez666]

He was in the top 40 players for ground covered last season. Only a few places off De Bruyne

*last season

 

[FriethBlade]

As an athletics coach anyone who thinks our team is athletic is.living on cloud cuckoo land. They might be athletic compared to a national league team but they arent athletic compared to other premiership teams.

There's 2 main points to consider. Firstly unless your name is Ronaldo a 30 yr old is less athletic than their 20 year old self...down to both aging and injury sustained over that 10 years. The vast majority of our outfield first 10 are nearer 30 than 20....Egan, Basham, Baldock, Norwood, Fleck, Stevens, McGoldrick, to name 7.

Secondly our last manager clearly valued work rate over athleticism. If you want players who can run all day, press and track back you end up with an endurance type squad not a power based squad.

Mo Farah can run all day but he isn't powerful, he isn't elastic, he cant explode over 5 meters and he cant leap high. Hes full of slow twitch muscle not.fast.

We are team full of.slow twitch muscle compared to other premiership sides and that's why we look slow and get beaten in the air all the time.