Warnock's Cunning Plan? - Disgraceful article

[oldblade]

Hmmm, and you wonder why we have a footballing culture problem at the Lane.
What is it, 10 sent off this season and fans falling over themselves to defend what happened nearly a decade ago.
Go figure...

Noone is defending it. We didn't cover ourselves in glory that day, but it doesn't mean we cheated. I know you don't like Warnock, but he was found not guilty and I have a vague memory that even a lip reader was used to try and determine what Warnock was actually saying to his players and staff.

 

[JJ Sefton]

The game was effectively lost given that they were far the better side, both on the day and over the course of the season to that point, we had 10 men, we were 2 down...

Makes me nostalgic for the Warnock days when we didnt think like that and we pulled off wins like L**ds in the League Cup in 2002/2003.

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------

Noone is defending it. We didn't cover ourselves in glory that day, but it doesn't mean we cheated. I know you don't like Warnock, but he was found not guilty and I have a vague memory that even a lip reader was used to try and determine what Warnock was actually saying to his players and staff.

The fourth official who was stood between Warnock and the Ginger Pig said that he had nothing like what the Grunter in Chief alleged. Also, has Smegson ever repeated his claims?

 

[oldblade]

The game was effectively lost given that they were far the better side, both on the day and over the course of the season to that point, we had 10 men, we were 2 down, and one of the players we had brought on had every intention of doing something that was going to get him sent off.

I thought we were actually doing very well against them, even after going down to 10 men so early. And their second gave a lopsided look to the score. Obviously once we went down to 8 men, we were never going to be in the game from then on. But up until that time, they were not much better than us at all.

 

[sothall blade]

Was it already lost? He came on with half an hour to go and only two goals and one man down. I know its a long time ago, but once upon a time United used to come back from deficits like that.

ahh them were the days mate !

 

[secretchief]

People who think we could have come back in this game need to remember that Wilko de Vogt went in goal.

In his biography, Warnock says he wasn't a goalkeeper at all, he was a left-back.

 

[Silent Blade]

I have a vague memory that even a lip reader was used to try and determine what Warnock was actually saying to his players and staff.

Didnt realise that. Using a lipreader in cases like this doesnt have 100% backing from me. There is more guesswork involved for the lipreader if the speaker is a poor lipspeaker. I did try to lipread NW on tv in the next day. It is impossible for any lipreader to guess what NW whispered in Keith Curle's ear and when talking to Kevin Blackwell, I did think he did say "lets get him off". Not sure who he was referring too. Blackwell turned away saying nothing and looked embarrassed. Again, as guesswork is involved, I might be wrong. NW spoke to me once in his early days as SUFC manager when I bumped into him at the Tesco car park. He wasnt easy to lip-read and I asked him to repeat before realising if there was a short cut for him to drive to Sainsbury. I told him that he would have to drive on Abbeydale Road and then go on Archer Road to park at Sainsburys (I was surprised that, being a Sheffielder, he didnt realise that there was no short cut to Sainsburys, then I realised that he lived away from Sheffield for a long time)

 

[oldblade]

Was it already lost? He came on with half an hour to go and only two goals and one man down. I know its a long time ago, but once upon a time United used to come back from deficits like that.

And we contrived to lose to Ipswich inn February 2003, when we were 2-0 up and Ipswich were down to 10 men. So you are right that a 2 goal deficit is not isurmoutable even with 10 men.

 

[sothall blade]

People who think we could have come back in this game need to remember that Wilko de Vogt went in goal.

In his biography, Warnock says he wasn't a goalkeeper at all, he was a left-back.

seem to remember jags going in goal to deputise for paddy when we licked arsenal and he did quite well keeping the gooners at bay,pesch was also quite handy between the sticks in training aswell,i am not saying your comment is wrong but sometimes when a team is up against it they usually go the extra mile

 

[secretchief]

seem to remember jags going in goal to deputise for paddy when we licked arsenal and he did quite well keeping the gooners at bay,pesch was also quite handy between the sticks in training aswell,i am not saying your comment is wrong but sometimes when a team is up against it they usually go the extra mile

This is perfectly true, but check out how de Vogt 'commands' the six-yard box to contribute towards West Brom's third, which is a total farce.

Of course it generally used to end up being Roger Nilsson going in goal, who would concede about ten.

And without being pedantic, we had 11 players on the pitch vs Arsenal. Granted, West Brom aren't Arsenal, though.

 

[sothall blade]

This is perfectly true, but check out how de Vogt 'commands' the six-yard box to contribute towards West Brom's third, which is a total farce.

Of course it generally used to end up being Roger Nilsson going in goal, who would concede about ten.

And without being pedantic, we had 11 players on the pitch vs Arsenal. Granted, West Brom aren't Arsenal, though.

take your point on commanding the box,then again i dont think simmo commands his area well,i really would have preferred to keep ian bennett instead of signing simmo, the money saved in extra wages would have probably helped get some quality players in

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Didnt realise that. Using a lipreader in cases like this doesnt have 100% backing from me. There is more guesswork involved for the lipreader if the speaker is a poor lipspeaker. I did try to lipread NW on tv in the next day. It is impossible for any lipreader to guess what NW whispered in Keith Curle's ear and when talking to Kevin Blackwell, I did think he did say "lets get him off". Not sure who he was referring too. Blackwell turned away saying nothing and looked embarrassed. Again, as guesswork is involved, I might be wrong. NW spoke to me once in his early days as SUFC manager when I bumped into him at the Tesco car park. He wasnt easy to lip-read and I asked him to repeat before realising if there was a short cut for him to drive to Sainsbury. I told him that he would have to drive on Abbeydale Road and then go on Archer Road to park at Sainsburys (I was surprised that, being a Sheffielder, he didnt realise that there was no short cut to Sainsburys, then I realised that he lived away from Sheffield for a long time)

I've always suspected that Megson (deliberately?) misheard or misunderstood Warnock talking about Michael Brown. Brown was struggling with a groin injury (hernia?) but trying to play on, which could have made the injury worse. Warnock was understandably keen to protect his player and this tallies with him saying to Blackwell "Let's get him off" and to Brown "Go down, come off" which is what Megson says he heard.

Megson somehow interpreted this as "pretend you're injured, so the match will be abandoned and we'll get it replayed. Then we can try and win 3 meaningless points and deprive West Brom of promotion". Blades who wanted rid of Warnock jumped on Megson's allegations as the gospel truth and immediately used them to try and get him sacked. Fortunately for United and Warnock, the referee and fourth official were well aware what had actually happened and Warnock was found innocent. If he'd been found guilty there was much talk at the time of automatic relegation.

P.S. As a side issue, I'm most intrigued what Warnock was trying to buy that he couldn't get in Tesco's but might be able to get from Sainsburys instead? Or was he just doing a tour of the regions supermarkets that day?

 

[Silent Blade]

P.S. As a side issue, I'm most intrigued what Warnock was trying to buy that he couldn't get in Tesco's but might be able to get from Sainsburys instead? Or was he just doing a tour of the regions supermarkets that day?

No idea, he was with his family and it was about 7pm at the time

 

[sitwell]

He was probably looking for Aldi ,as usual under the McCabe regime.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

As a deliberate attempt to break his opponents legs, i still rate George Santos's tackle as the finest ever seen. 14 stones of angry Frenchman, flying in at high speed straight with both feet homing in with deadly accuracy on his opponents ankles.

I can see why Santos was so angry, as the season before Andy Johnson had smashed him with a disgraceful elbow laced with intent that nearly blinded him, and got away scot free, so when the time came for revenge who can blame him for taking the chance?

I thought it was pretty crap to be honest. I mean, he didn't even injure Johnson did he?

 

[JohnDenver]

I thought it was pretty crap to be honest. I mean, he didn't even injure Johnson did he?

Only because he saw him coming. If he'd done it from another angle then Johnson would no longer have his own feet.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Only because he saw him coming. If he'd done it from another angle then Johnson would no longer have his own feet.

No it was Santos who completely messed it up. He went for Johnson's kicking leg and ended up barely touching him - he just slightly clipped his foot.

If he really wanted to do him he should have gone in from the side on his standing leg. If he had done that Johnosn would probably have ended up in a wheelchair and never played a game of football ever again.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I've always suspected that Megson (deliberately?) misheard or misunderstood Warnock talking about Michael Brown. Brown was struggling with a groin injury (hernia?) but trying to play on, which could have made the injury worse. Warnock was understandably keen to protect his player and this tallies with him saying to Blackwell "Let's get him off" and to Brown "Go down, come off" which is what Megson says he heard.

Precisely how I read the situation at the time, and I've seen absolutely nothing creditible that's made me think otherwise. I do think Megson knew that he could use something like that to our advantage, and eagerly grasped the opportunity. As for Blackwell apparently looking embarrassed, hardly surprising given that he knew that would mean we'd be yet another man down.

I've always been curious as to why Warnock brought Santos on when Santos had made it known prior to the game via a press interview that he was going to nail Johnson if he got the chance. Not Warnock's brightest move

Didn't David Moyes do exactly the same thing the other week in bringing Victor Anichebe on against Nolan? Nolan made a horrific two-footed lunge on Anichebe, Anichebe was out for 11 months, and ended up settling out of court earlier this month after suing for damages - a few days later, he's brought on at St James's Park, and within 5 minutes they came together after Anichebe went in late. On that occasion, no bookings, no sendings off.

On both occasions, no doubt both managers thought that what had happened to those players concerned would serve as an incentive for them to play well when brought on. Or perhaps Warnock and Moyes just really wanted to lose those games, get the other player injured, get their own player sent off - you decide.

 

[SwissBlade]

Hmmm, and you wonder why we have a footballing culture problem at the Lane.
What is it, 10 sent off this season and fans falling over themselves to defend what happened nearly a decade ago.
Go figure...

To be fair Lenners, THAT game was the turning point for United under NW... so perhaps Micky's seen something in the "match abandonment forces team togetherness" thesis which I haven't yet written

Its quite a radical idea, a bit like my other one to help cool the nuclear reactors on the pacific coast - By triggering a new pacific Earthquake and Tsunami a massive wave will wash over the Nuclear plant with 1'000's of gallons of sea water, thus cooling the plant...

 

[Liaminho9]

Yet we lost 3-0.... hmmmm

The match was abandoned and replayed though, wasn't it?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

The match was abandoned and replayed though, wasn't it?

No replay, the result stood.

 

[axel smeets]

So Warnock was to blame for playing Santos but Megson bears no blame at all for playing Johnson?

Thankyou walthy. Let's not forget people that Warnock had as much right to play Santos as cunt features did to play Johnson. Oh, and if i recall, Santos was the one who ended up with a plate in his cheek in March 2001.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

As a deliberate attempt to break his opponents legs, i still rate George Santos's tackle as the finest ever seen. 14 stones of angry Frenchman, flying in at high speed straight with both feet homing in with deadly accuracy on his opponents ankles.

I can see why Santos was so angry, as the season before Andy Johnson had smashed him with a disgraceful elbow laced with intent that nearly blinded him, and got away scot free, so when the time came for revenge who can blame him for taking the chance?

Good tackle, took the ball only caught the trailing leg due to motion, ref got it wrong big time and all that followed including this discussion was and is bollocks.

Considering Curle was supposed to be some big league centre half he danced around afterwards like a big ponse without getting stuck in. He should have twatted their goalie for one.

 

[oaklandrdblade]

Curle - always hated him, don't think I ever saw him play a game he shouldn't have been sent off in.

 

[JohnDenver]

Good tackle, took the ball only caught the trailing leg due to motion, ref got it wrong big time and all that followed including this discussion was and is bollocks.

Considering Curle was supposed to be some big league centre half he danced around afterwards like a big ponse without getting stuck in. He should have twatted their goalie for one.

You've completely lost me...

Curle - always hated him, don't think I ever saw him play a game he shouldn't have been sent off in.

Same here. Nasty sly niggling piece of work who I wish never wore our shirt.

 

[sothall blade]

To be fair Lenners, THAT game was the turning point for United under NW... so perhaps Micky's seen something in the "match abandonment forces team togetherness" thesis which I haven't yet written

Its quite a radical idea, a bit like my other one to help cool the nuclear reactors on the pacific coast - By triggering a new pacific Earthquake and Tsunami a massive wave will wash over the Nuclear plant with 1'000's of gallons of sea water, thus cooling the plant...

a bit like the towering inferno film then swiss,where they blew the massive water tanks on the top of the skyscraper,thuswater gushing everywhere putting the fire out,sort of shit or bust !

 

[SwissBlade]

a bit like the towering inferno film then swiss,where they blew the massive water tanks on the top of the skyscraper,thuswater gushing everywhere putting the fire out,sort of shit or bust !

Precisely Sothall, I need you to be the man to put all that £40 Shirt rage (now selling for a fiver) into one last mission for me, I need you to press the big red button with "Pacific Earthquake" on. Can you do that for me? Huh, Can you...


ANd here's that twat Megson, god I hate that cnut!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZDsjY3uFdE

 

[Revolution]

On both occasions, no doubt both managers thought that what had happened to those players concerned would serve as an incentive for them to play well when brought on. Or perhaps Warnock and Moyes just really wanted to lose those games, get the other player injured, get their own player sent off - you decide.

It is entirely possible that, at 0-2 down and with 10 men against a team well above us in the table, Warnock thought the game was over so he'd let Santos have a go at Johnson. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it is a possible scenario.

It is worth remembering in this context that a number of people in the game (e.g. Megson, Steve Bull, John Carver and Wally Downes) have accused Warnock of telling his players to deliberately injure opponents.

Incidentally, I have recently learned something I didn't know about this saga - there was an emergency board meeting 45 minutes after the game and Warnock was fired, but Warnock then spoke to McCabe at length on the phone and got himself re-instated. I don't know whether this was common knowledge at the time. It was certainly news to me.

 

[SRBlade]

I thought it was pretty crap to be honest. I mean, he didn't even injure Johnson did he?

Brown Should have had a word with him prior, he knew how to 'do' players

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNugWnNjwwg&feature=player_embedded

 

[sothall blade]

Brown Should have had a word with him prior, he knew how to 'do' players

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNugWnNjwwg&feature=player_embedded

you,re right sunderland,whilst brownie was our best player at the time,when he left he seemed to turn into a cynical nasty piece of work that never stopped moaning and trying to get opponents booked or sent off

 

[JJ Sefton]

It is entirely possible that, at 0-2 down and with 10 men against a team well above us in the table, Warnock thought the game was over so he'd let Santos have a go at Johnson.

Eh? A man down and two goals down but half an hour still to play Warnock says "Fuck this, its all over. Georges, if you want to have a go get stuck in, Im going to have a look in the TV Times and see if Poirots on tonight, call me when its finished"

---------- Post added at 10:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 AM ----------

It is worth remembering in this context that a number of people in the game (e.g. Megson, Steve Bull, John Carver and Wally Downes) have accused Warnock of telling his players to deliberately injure opponents.

Its worth remembering in this context that Wally Downes is a lying cunt who wasnt averse to nobbling players himself. To try and cast him as St Wally, purveyor of the fine arts of football, well, did you see him play?

Its also worth remembering in this context that some of the claims made about Warnock are demonstrably false, like the Ginger Pigs and Stan Ternents bizarre story of himself as some of Kung Fu kicking avenger of the dressing room.

Its also worth remembering in this context that some people in football have alot of time for Warnock. I saw us away at Plymouth once and was having a cig under the stand when one of the stewards told me what a legend Warnock was down there. If only some of our fans could could show a bit of that appreciation for the only bloke in the last 20 years to bring us any success.