Wages

[bertieblade]

I don’t get the talk of us not having the funds for wages .
£25k / week is £1.2 million / year .

Don’t bring in Brewster, after all he has not been played although I do think he will go on to be a good player.

This provides £20m over the length of his contract.

Which could be used to provide a wage increase of 25k / week for five players over a four year contract or better quality players on loan etc.

I realise you need funds for the transfer as well but the point being we could have cut and sliced the cake differently; players of different abilities are paid different amounts it is the nature of the business and subsequently squad harmony would just have to be managed.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I don’t get the talk of us not having the funds for wages .
£25k / week is £1.2 million / year .

Don’t bring in Brewster, after all he has not been played although I do think he will go on to be a good player.

This provides £20m over the length of his contract.

Which could be used to provide a wage increase of 25k / week for five players over a four year contract or better quality players on loan etc.

The criticism I've seen of Wilder has revolved around the perception that he didn't want 3 or 4 players earning substantially more than the rest of the squad, particularly if they are newcomers. This seems to be the Burnley model of operating with all the players reported to be on between £40k and £50k per week.

In reality most teams need a few exceptional players and I think with hindsight Wilder might have brought some in. He may have learned that lesson, got us promoted again next season and done ok in the PL, we'll never know now though.

 

[Chingo]

Who said this ?

 

[SilkyBlade]

The criticism I've seen of Wilder has revolved around the perception that he didn't want 3 or 4 players earning substantially more than the rest of the squad, particularly if they are newcomers. This seems to be the Burnley model of operating with all the players reported to be on between £40k and £50k per week.

In reality most teams need a few exceptional players and I think with hindsight Wilder might have brought some in. He may have learned that lesson, got us promoted again next season and done ok in the PL, we'll never know now though.

And its also been reported that it was, in fact, the Prince who refused to increase wage cap, thus limiting, significantly, the ability to attract better players....what we definitely know is that we don’t know very much at all what’s gone on!

 

[bertieblade]

And its also been reported that it was, in fact, the Prince who refused to increase wage cap, thus limiting, significantly, the ability to attract better players....what we definitely know is that we don’t know very much at all what’s gone on!

Whoever made the decision: it makes no difference. The argument however defies logic

 

[JJ Sefton]

I don’t get the talk of us not having the funds for wages .
£25k / week is £1.2 million / year .

Don’t bring in Brewster, after all he has not been played although I do think he will go on to be a good player.

This provides £20m over the length of his contract.

Which could be used to provide a wage increase of 25k / week for five players over a four year contract or better quality players on loan etc.

I realise you need funds for the transfer as well but the point being we could have cut and sliced the cake differently; players of different abilities are paid different amounts it is the nature of the business and subsequently squad harmony would just have to be managed.

I made this point recently, what a team spends on wages is much more strongly correlated with how well it does than what it spends on transfer fees. We’ve misallocated a lot of cash in vast fees for Berge, Mousset, McBurnie, Ramsdale, and Brewster, IMHO. This is made worse by the apparent unwillingness to look much outside England for players. British players carry a premium relative to similar quality players from elsewhere. By narrowing our search we reduced our effective budget.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Who said this ?

View attachment 108234

my main critisism of wilder over all of this is that approach soon changed when we weren’t winning - moaning every two minutes about resources.

I obviously didn’t want him to leave but there has to be a halfway house between he wasn’t given a pot to piss in and wilder not using the resources available very well at all.

we had a squad with no competent back up defenders and only 4 midfielders. It was truely lop-sided squad building and with the benefit of hindsight we’d have bough back 1/2 of the signings from the last 2 years so you can see why the prince might not have wanted to throw good money after bad when we were already down. The recruitment has been crap in all honest even with a low budget, we could have used it so much better.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I made this point recently, what a team spends on wages is much more strongly correlated with how well it does than what it spends on transfer fees. We’ve misallocated a lot of cash in vast fees for Berge, Mousset, McBurnie, Ramsdale, and Brewster, IMHO. This is made worse by the apparent unwillingness to look much outside England for players. British players carry a premium relative to similar quality players from elsewhere. By narrowing our search we reduced our effective budget.

add in 12 m or so million (plus wages) for freeman and Robinson. Who made about 10 starts between them and didn’t last into their second year. That’s 2 players on 40k a week for a three year contract.

the money was their to be spend in whatever way they saw fit.

 

[robbiez666]

I don’t get the talk of us not having the funds for wages .
£25k / week is £1.2 million / year .

Don’t bring in Brewster, after all he has not been played although I do think he will go on to be a good player.

This provides £20m over the length of his contract.

Which could be used to provide a wage increase of 25k / week for five players over a four year contract or better quality players on loan etc.

I realise you need funds for the transfer as well but the point being we could have cut and sliced the cake differently; players of different abilities are paid different amounts it is the nature of the business and subsequently squad harmony would just have to be managed.

How do we know which are going to be the best players? If we took this approach then we'd have players we could never sell if they underperformed. Relegated and lumbered with a huge wage bill. Bit like Sunderland.

 

[Houston_Blade]

How do we know which are going to be the best players? If we took this approach then we'd have players we could never sell if they underperformed. Relegated and lumbered with a huge wage bill. Bit like Sunderland.

Have you not realised yet? 'European scouting network' solves all the world's problems.

 

[bertieblade]

How do we know which are going to be the best players? If we took this approach then we'd have players we could never sell if they underperformed. Relegated and lumbered with a huge wage bill. Bit like Sunderland.

Watkins is an example that we have heard time and again to being very close to signing but lured away to villa by bigger wages. Maupay was at the lane ready to sign but lured by bigger wages.
It is not so much the specific players it is the fact that we have used the inability to pay higher wages as an excuse I am merely pointing out that money was available if it had been used differently

 

[BlairBlade]

How do we know which are going to be the best players? If we took this approach then we'd have players we could never sell if they underperformed. Relegated and lumbered with a huge wage bill. Bit like Sunderland.

Let's hope, at the very least, that we had relegation clauses in every contract.

 

[Swinton Blade]

I don’t get the talk of us not having the funds for wages .
£25k / week is £1.2 million / year .

Don’t bring in Brewster, after all he has not been played although I do think he will go on to be a good player.

This provides £20m over the length of his contract.

Which could be used to provide a wage increase of 25k / week for five players over a four year contract or better quality players on loan etc.

I realise you need funds for the transfer as well but the point being we could have cut and sliced the cake differently; players of different abilities are paid different amounts it is the nature of the business and subsequently squad harmony would just have to be managed.

We probably can offer players £25k a week but if they are going to get £60k at Villa or Newcastle. Who are they going to sign for?

Plus offering a player £25k a week doesn't mean they are better players.

 

[BlairBlade]

Have you not realised yet? 'European scouting network' solves all the world's problems.

In which case we need to get one, and soon.

 

[bertieblade]

We probably can offer players £25k a week but if they are going to get £60k at Villa or Newcastle. Who are they going to sign for?

Plus offering a player £25k a week doesn't mean they are better players.

The figures quoted refer to an ability to
Increase wages by £25k / week. Or looking at it another way, to take wages from the transfer kitty and move it to the wages budget

 

[robbiez666]

Watkins is an example that we have heard time and again to being very close to signing but lured away to villa by bigger wages. Maupay was at the lane ready to sign but lured by bigger wages.
It is not so much the specific players it is the fact that we have used the inability to pay higher wages as an excuse I am merely pointing out that money was available if it had been used differently

Villa can afford to carry huge wages if they got relegated. We can't. It's the case of crippling your own club with debt or not.

 

[robbiez666]

Let's hope, at the very least, that we had relegation clauses in every contract.

Think the point I was trying to make was that if we did but players on £50k for 4 years that any relegation clause would be minimal. No one is going to sign for a club which is a favourite for relegation if their wage will be cut in half through no fault of their own.

They're pretty standard but I don't get where the 50% comes from.

 

[bertieblade]

Villa can afford to carry huge wages if they got relegated. We can't. It's the case of crippling your own club with debt or not.

Agree if we do not include clauses which reduce wages in the event of relegation which apparently we have.

 

[robbiez666]

Agree if we do not include clauses which reduce wages in the event of relegation which apparently we have.

Players have to accept these clauses. I'm not sure which player is going to sign for a relegation favourite team with a hefty wage reduction if they get relegated.

 

[bertieblade]

Think the point I was trying to make was that if we did but players on £50k for 4 years that any relegation clause would be minimal. No one is going to sign for a club which is a favourite for relegation if their wage will be cut in half through no fault of their own.

They're pretty standard but I don't get where the 50% comes from.

It was widely reported that Davies from Preston would not sign for us as a relegation clause would reduce his wages in line with those he was on at Preston.
clauses are in place at most clubs
The negotiation is based around convincing players to come, use the positives of earning money if we stay up coupled with larger initial wages

 

[bertieblade]

Players have to accept these clauses. I'm not sure which player is going to sign for a relegation favourite team with a hefty wage reduction if they get relegated.

I can assure you they do at other clubs, why not at ours

 

[BushBlade]

You can argue this until the cows come home, and we have been doing for the last five months but even if the 20 PL clubs were the 20 best run clubs in the world, three will still get relegated. When your resources are as limited as ours there’s very little room for error. A couple of mistakes and you’re fucked.

 

[ATL Recs]

Have you not realised yet? 'European scouting network' solves all the world's problems.

some not all

 

[PokerBlade]

I don’t get the talk of us not having the funds for wages .
£25k / week is £1.2 million / year .

Don’t bring in Brewster, after all he has not been played although I do think he will go on to be a good player.

This provides £20m over the length of his contract.

Which could be used to provide a wage increase of 25k / week for five players over a four year contract or better quality players on loan etc.

I realise you need funds for the transfer as well but the point being we could have cut and sliced the cake differently; players of different abilities are paid different amounts it is the nature of the business and subsequently squad harmony would just have to be managed.

I think the start of that last paragraph undoes the rest of it.

If we don't sign Brewster and use that £20m to increase the wage budget then there isn't the £20m+ to actually sign a player like Ollie Watkins that we wanted anyway.

Yes, we could shuffle the budget around but the kind of money we've spent on signings haven't even been large fees. They've been bog standard for Prem players. There's no way to get our first choice signings on the transfer budget.

I guess we could've not signed several players, increased the wage cap for just one or two signings, but then you're putting your eggs all in one basket and would have an even thinner squad than we already do and potentially unbalance the dressing room by having one superstar earning more than the rest.

I think the question is whether we've wasted what money we did have for signings. And then it's difficult to say we haven't, although depending on who we keep and how much we recoup on others, that might be answered in the Championship.

 

[BlairBlade]

Think the point I was trying to make was that if we did but players on £50k for 4 years that any relegation clause would be minimal. No one is going to sign for a club which is a favourite for relegation if their wage will be cut in half through no fault of their own.

They're pretty standard but I don't get where the 50% comes from.

Not sure about the 50% point you make.

However, last season, although not the season before, I doubt anyone we signed would have given relegation much thought.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Players have to accept these clauses. I'm not sure which player is going to sign for a relegation favourite team with a hefty wage reduction if they get relegated.

Newcastle have apparently not inserted relegation clauses in a lot of their players contracts, I'd love them to go down just to see their wage bill in the Championship. The reasoning is apparently that none of them would accept the contracts with these clauses in, true mercenaries

 

[BushBlade]

Newcastle have apparently not inserted relegation clauses in a lot of their players contracts, I'd love them to go down just to see their wage bill in the Championship. The reasoning is apparently that none of them would accept the contracts with these clauses in, true mercenaries

For purely selfish reasons I want to see Fulham relegated (easy away game for me) but I’d love to see Newcastle go down if that’s the case.

 

[Houston_Blade]

For purely selfish reasons I want to see Fulham relegated (easy away game for me) but I’d love to see Newcastle go down if that’s the case.

This is from the top of the Times article:

The financial cost of relegation to Newcastle United would be even more devastating because the club’s first-team players do not have relegation clauses in their contracts.

The Times understands that Newcastle’s policy has been to avoid such clauses to prevent potential signings from being put off. It means that Newcastle, who are only one point outside the relegation zone, would have to carry their full Premier League wage bill into the second tier next season, if they go down, with top earners such as Miguel Almirón on £80,000 a week.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Well if Forbes are to be believed our wage bill last year was around half of Burnley's and less than half of relegated Bournemouth's. The Brighton chairman is said to have just pumped in the best part of 50 million of his own money to pay their overheads. That's why we can't compete, nor will we until we have similar ownership. It all boils down to money in the end...

 

[robbiez666]

Newcastle have apparently not inserted relegation clauses in a lot of their players contracts, I'd love them to go down just to see their wage bill in the Championship. The reasoning is apparently that none of them would accept the contracts with these clauses in, true mercenaries

I'd be surprised if Berge had a clause (other than a release clause).