Denying a goal scoring opportunity

[FMBlade1]

Delighted we won but still really angry about this.

Disgrace.

 

[mcbladeface]

Looking forward to hearing Dermot tomorrow explaining how it was a totally justified red.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

We have been right royally fucked over too many times with technology.

 

[LJBlade]

This angle from the highlights makes the decision look even worse. So why the still shown to the ref from behind play instead of across as in offside with the lines. Bryan is clearly the last man too.

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The still image also doesn’t show that Bryan is running at full speed whereas the Villa player isn’t

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

I’ve become so hacked off with bonkers changes to the laws of the game, and with VAR, that I’ve not been keeping up. But wouldn’t the ref need to have made a “clear and obvious error” with the yellow card, for the decision to be referred back to him by Stockley Park?

If so, wtf was “clearly and obviously“ wrong with the original decision?

 

[Mojo]

 

[Blade1959]

The still image also doesn’t show that Bryan is running at full speed whereas the Villa player isn’t

I know it’s not relevant to the last man rule but it’s so far from goal that I think Baldock catches him too

 

[Yewsman]

VAR in principle is a good idea to get rid of clear and obvious mistakes. The problem is that it’s operated/administered by total idiots. As a result for every mistake it corrects it makes as many by not correcting others or “correcting” things which aren’t mistakes.

 

[Trigger Blade]

And whenever they are asked to go to the screen you know it's because they have basically been told they got it wrong so you know a turnover is coming. The screen should be only if the ref thinks it will help them, before they make a tough decision in my opinion. Plus today it wasn't even a proper playback but a still. No indication of the movement of the players or where the ball was heading.

Exactly what we said, can’t remember a visit to the screen where the ref doesn’t change his mind.

As for Peter Walton, on BT tonight, the pundits asked him his view before the red card came out and he didn’t commit, just explained the process. Subsequently, he said the ref got it right and again, I don’t recall him saying a ref got it wrong. He even backed Lee Mason in the Brighton v WBA game when he made about three decisions and you might think at least one of those might be wrong.

 

[Champagneblade]

This angle from the highlights makes the decision look even worse. So why the still shown to the ref from behind play instead of across as in offside with the lines. Bryan is clearly the last man too.

View attachment 107003

Let's assume he will get to at least the left corner of the D before he shoots.

Bryan is closer to goal than him.

Bryan will have to run at a slight angle.

But you are not telling me that Bryan running at full pelt without the ball can't cover more ground than El Ghazi who is running with the ball!

It certainly isn't an obvious goal scoring opportunity as a. He's got a hell of a lot of ground to cover whilst bringing the ball with him to get withing reasonable shooting range. b. There is every chance Bryan intercepts him at the edge of the area and Bryan is the last man, the lines on the pitch tell you that.

You contract with (yet another) one in Villa's favour when Konza fetched down Saka in the inside right spot. Apparently Targett was covering yet Targett is behind Konza at the point of contact. This isn't the case here.

Absolute pish decision. Wilder seems inclined to not appeal this sort of thing but even Keith Hackett is saying there is a good shout to get this reversed. If they are telling me with all the information and angles available and time to digest and reflect that Kean Bryan, possibly United's fastest defender simply has no chance to get there, then I'm calling "Bullshit!"

 

[Champagneblade]

We've been shit for long periods. Let me put that here first before I venture down a slippery slope. Yet look at what you could have won:

Villa + 1 point. Similar to today they could not break us down from open play.
Arsenal + 3 points. These are elite footballers. 86 minutes vs 10 men would have got the win. That's also setting aside Cebollos (sp) stood on Lunny's toe and it should have been a pen.
Leeds + 1 point. It was a foul on Berge in the build up. Where were the pitchside monitors then?
Liverpool + 1 point. Should have been a penalty on Berge.
Brighton + 2 points. Lundstram fully got the ball and other similar challenges have not been given as reds. Would have been a valuable win.
Chelsea +1 point. In the end Werner basically played the keeper, smashed into his face and if you examine closely it could have been a foul the other way given it was strikers knee to face.
Fulham +1 point. Keeper clattered Bogle. Any touch of the ball was with the standing leg with which he wasn't challenging and was only a consequence of Bogle winning the challenge. Should have been a red. Could even have been 3 points as there were 7 mins added time.

All a bit fantastical when put together I know. But these are a number of instances, all of which have gone against us which on their own merits could have been called differently and when put together would have created a 10 point swing.

We've struggled with injuries and consistency but were we sat on 24 points instead then you'd see us in with a chance. With our lack of depth we simply can't absorb the injuries and the appalling reffing which we've had to endure this season.

Taking the rose tinted glasses off now. But you take my point...

 

[Rufus Smalls]

This angle from the highlights makes the decision look even worse. So why the still shown to the ref from behind play instead of across as in offside with the lines. Bryan is clearly the last man too.

View attachment 107003

If you look at the play from the low side angle in real time, the ball is only just dinked over Jags with no real pace which slowed the attack down in terms of running in on goal. He would have been caught by Bryan who was running at full pelt.

 

[S64 Blade]

It's not even a 'goal scoring opportunity', in the rulebook it needs to be an 'obvious goal-scoring opportunity'. The one tonight was the former but not the latter.

Agreed. Anything is a goal scoring opportunity if you’re good enough/with a bit of luck.

 

[SwitchBLADE Smiles]

One is an ‘out of control’ challenge & a straight red card, the other is a foul on the goalkeeper.

The officials using VAR in this country are beyond inept & the number of genuinely appalling decisions that have been made (not only against us btw) is bordering on corruption.

Like me mam used to tell me when I was a nipper “If you can’t play nice with it, you won’t play with it at all”. Until there comes a point where VAR is used to make the decisions it was supposed to have been brought in for, put it back in its box.

 

[Yogi]

My issue about this is the clear an obvious element required to over turn a decision and the covering player coupled with the distance from goal make that anything other than obvious.

If the ref gives a red in the heat of the moment and stuck with it I’d be pissed but I’d understand based on the fact that you couldn’t obviously say anyone was getting back. But to overturn a yellow based on that is ridiculous for the same reason as you can’t obviously say they wouldn’t have gotten back in time.

 

[scouseblade]

What really annoyed me was that the ref was only shown stills on the replays, so couldn’t judge whether Bryan was closing the gap down, he could only see how far away he was. And the ref was right behind the incident, so arguably had the best view of anyone!!

Precisely. It fits the agenda of the VAR official. They slow down the tackles to make them look bad and provide only stills of incidents such as this. Not only was Bryan getting across, he is 38 yards from goal and Baldock was motoring back too. Shocker of a decision but not surprised. Soon as I saw the reply I thought to myself, he is going to get sent off here.

 

[Grey Blade]

The video assistant referee's first question should be "is there a clear and obvious error" and if there isn't, they should go no further. It seems to me they see an incident and think they should forensically dissect it, forgetting the "clear and obvious" aspect.

The problem is there's so much film available these days, that similar incidents from other games are seen to be dealt with differently and the whole VAR system is made to look foolish.

Marginal off side decisions are a case in point. As soon as they start to draw lines and drop perpendiculars , it immediately demonstrates that the off side is not "clear and obvious" so the player should be deemed on side.

VAR has just become another entertainment for the armchair fan and it has long since forgotten what it was brought in for.

 

[Sheffsteel]

VAR has just become another entertainment for the armchair fan and it has long since forgotten what it was brought in for.

Think it’s important we realise what it was before VAR....and that’s terrible decisions every match.
Also before VAR there were loads of cheating, diving and trying to intimidate refs.

We’ll probably see next season.
My prediction is our fans will complain much more about ref decisions in the Championship and realise that VAR is the lesser of 2 evils.

Think VAR has improved this season compared to last season
The main issue this season is giving still photos to refs....and how different angles, different stills can strongly influence a decision.
Think real time action is more important that viewing stills.

 

[BushBlade]

I’m normally quite sanguine about poor decisions, it’s part and parcel of the game. They’ll always be a subjective element to it. That was a fucking scandalous decision though.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I will offer a situation that might point to a solution in the future.

If VAR is here to stay then all we have ended up with is a subjective decision by the on field ref being replaced with a subjective decision by a Stockley Park ref - albeit with a lot more views - BUT wrong decisions, or more over, subjective decisions are still being made.

We've had numerous his season. If VAR had looked at the rear goal camera for Egan at Villa, he wouldn't have been sent off.

What needs to be done - and it's only down to money - is get an AI solution. AI would take out ANY emotion from the decision - the fact that little Sheff United playing big Arsenal away won't come into the decision - as we saw with Burke and luiz earlier in the season.

Let a computer system/program totally decide the decision - it would be a lot quicker than people deciding and anything to do with emotion would be removed from the decision making.

The football authorities have brought in technology - let the technology TOTALLY make the decision. Someone pick the phone up and get onto Microsoft !

UTB

 

[Mojo]

Look at the Saka one I posted above, the ref judges matty cash is covering so only gives a yellow. Cash is several yards behind the play. It absolutely stinks to high heaven.

Another thing I noticed, villa won a corner, in the replay they showed a villa man was offside in the build up. However they didn't pull it back they let villa have the corner. The exact same thing happened for us against liverpool but they pulled it back and gave liverpool the free kick for offside. Double fucking standards that I am absolutely sick of in this league. There is no consistency and the whole refereeing situation needs looking at cause these guys are not impartial they are bias beyond belief.

 

[Grey Blade]

Think it’s important we realise what it was before VAR....and that’s terrible decisions every match.
Also before VAR there were loads of cheating, diving and trying to intimidate refs.

I agree with all of this but I think the pre VAR terrible decisions were the ones that should have been corrected and as fans, we had a good idea which decisions were incorrect. The problem is that now they are interfering with marginal decisions and drawing attention when it isn't needed.

I would like to see them do more about diving and cheating - because there is still plenty of it about.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Watch it again. Watch Jags reaction. He knew it was a Red.

 

[bogo40]

My issue about this is the clear an obvious element required to over turn a decision and the covering player coupled with the distance from goal make that anything other than obvious.

If the ref gives a red in the heat of the moment and stuck with it I’d be pissed but I’d understand based on the fact that you couldn’t obviously say anyone was getting back. But to overturn a yellow based on that is ridiculous for the same reason as you can’t obviously say they wouldn’t have gotten back in time.

Must admit I thought that once the ref had given a yellow the incident was closed and VAR shouldnt check or go over it and change it.

 

[Yogi]

Must admit I thought that once the ref had given a yellow the incident was closed and VAR shouldnt check or go over it and change it.

I agree in this instance I’m unsure what having multiple looks at this type of incident can do to help make the decision. He can see where baldock and Bryan are stood from 40 yards away he doesn’t need close ups or slow mo replays to help him make an intuitive gut decision.

 

[Balham]

Watch it again. Watch Jags reaction. He knew it was a Red.

He knew it was an unjustified red as soon as it was referred to the monitor. It was resignation rather than guilt.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

He knew it was an unjustified red as soon as it was referred to the monitor. It was resignation rather than guilt.

The second the foul is given. I thought it would be a red right away. So did he.

 

[Champagneblade]

The video assistant referee's first question should be "is there a clear and obvious error" and if there isn't, they should go no further. It seems to me they see an incident and think they should forensically dissect it, forgetting the "clear and obvious" aspect.

The problem is there's so much film available these days, that similar incidents from other games are seen to be dealt with differently and the whole VAR system is made to look foolish.

Marginal off side decisions are a case in point. As soon as they start to draw lines and drop perpendiculars , it immediately demonstrates that the off side is not "clear and obvious" so the player should be deemed on side.

VAR has just become another entertainment for the armchair fan and it has long since forgotten what it was brought in for.

Exactly your first point. It's now become for the VAR ref "hmmm, what would I have done?" And that's absolutely not the same.

 

[Blade for Sale]

The second the foul is given. I thought it would be a red right away. So did he.

You are in a minority of 1. The real scandal here was the failure (deliberate?) to show video footage as opposed to a still image on the video reply. The ref there has to show some fucking backbone and insist on moving video. That entire episode stunk to high fucking heaven of corruption

 

[bypassblade]

Taped MoD 1st time in years watched our highlights yes it's a foul but he's almost 40 yards from goal, then some Harry Potter look a like on MoD said definite sending off what a twat. As for the goal that was a thing of beauty great ball by Didzy to Baldock and the ball back was beautiful, even Alex Scott was drooling (I deleted rest of programme after we were on).

Ah well I see we are heading to a break just when Covid was coming down, League do all they can to increase cases.