Is Wilders reputation in danger?

[Nine Inch Nalis]

I'm making sure to remember the names of every cunt who is preening about how they wanted Wilder sacked 2 minutes into the season, the cunts whose memory stretches back no further than 12 months, the cunts who make baseless accusations against him, the cunts who if ever given a position of influence in the club would not only fail but run us into the fucking ground.
Then I'll easily be able to disregard anything these parasites have to say about Sheffield United ever again.

And the way this thread is going, looks like I'll have to start writing them down.

 

[MalmoBlade]

Er yes......unless you ignore the fact we were relegated first under Basset.

:- ) Come on alco you know it was already over when Bassett first arrived. McEwan saw to that. Chris at least had the benefit of starting from scratch, Bassett had to muck out the bloody stable first

 

[MalmoBlade]

I really like the bloke but his interviews are becoming worryingly Warnock-esque in their repetitiveness.

He's becoming a parody of his own joke about Fleck. last year Chris Wilder was manager. This year he's fucked off and Cyril Wilder's taken his place but hopefully Chris will be back in Summer

 

[ormester]

These are the same fans that were moaning in League one are now moaning in the PL. Chris will go down in history as arguably the best manager our club has ever seen.

His legacy doesn’t depend on the the intelligence of some fans who cannot see it. What’s he’s done will live forever.

Wrong wrong wrong. CW isn't the same manager he is so stubborn now yesterday it was embarrasing a professional footballer paid big money can't put a decent shot on target

 

[Bladesman]

Yes, it is pretty fucked now.

Hopefully he can rectify it and declare this season a one off.

 

[ormester]

Crap - Basett's record is better for a start and John Harris better still. History didn't start 5 years ago.

At the moment I would say as a lower league manager Wilder is arguably better than Warnock. But in the Championship and PL he has had 4 seasons 1 good, 1 very good, 1 excellent and 1 fucking horrible.

If he is still here next season let's see how he does eh.

I can't see him being here to be honest

 

[Nosworthys Throw]

Hi Stegosaurus here,

Yes. Look at Paul Jewell, he had great success in the lower leagues. Promotion with Bradford. Took Wigan up twice, kept them up. Then at Derby crashed and burned ... managerial career over and he's become a bit of a punchline for awful manager, when really, he didn't have a bad managerial career.

You missed the bit out where he "managed" your lot

 

[alcoblade]

:- ) Come on alco you know it was already over when Bassett first arrived. McEwan saw to that. Chris at least had the benefit of starting from scratch, Bassett had to muck out the bloody stable first

It was a tall order, yes. But not impossible. Granted, the long term direction had been set before he arrived.

 

[Revolution]

It was a tall order, yes. But not impossible. Granted, the long term direction had been set before he arrived.

We could have stayed up that year with better finishing late in the season. Bassett gave up on Mendonca after a wretched performance in his first home game, which was a mistake as Agana came in but was never fully fit that season. There were a lot of new players and some of them weren’t very good.

 

[Superblade7]

I agree with many of the comments on here as Wilder definitely deserves a lot of credit for the previous four years.

My concern this season is not getting relegated but the way in which it has happened. With our current squad and having spent over £100m we should not have the worse record (and multiple at that) out of the English football pyramid.

We have lost the majority of the games this season with little to no fight and that is not my Sheffield United. We have never had a lot of money or superstar players but the thing that always works for Sheffield United is a togetherness of the team and a fighting spirit. This season that has barely been seen and we are going down without a fight.

The signings not working out, the injuries and the mistakes cannot be blamed on Wilder. What I don’t understand is how he has persisted to play the same tactics week in, week out and stuck with this despite it resulting in us losing around 80% of our games. I’m pretty sure if this hadn’t been Wilder at Sheffield United, he‘d have been sacked at Christmas at any other club.

My worry now is that he will continue to play the same tactic and players for the remaining games and the results will continue to be the same and will drain every last ounce of confidence out of the majority of the players. This will then be very difficult to come back from and will lead to a nervy start next season and if we don’t start well, a toxic atmosphere at BDTBL.

We are now 100% relegated so the rest of the season is a free hit. There is no point in sacking him now so it’s time for him to try something different, experiment, maybe give one or two of the promising youngsters some game time and just start preparing for next season. Maybe this will result in a couple of hammerings but maybe it also might freshen things up and a bit of fight back.

I remember the Wilder who said he wanted to play on the front foot, positive attacking football, no sideways and backwards passing. Hopefully that Wilder will return and bring the team with him!

 

[alcoblade]

I agree with many of the comments on here as Wilder definitely deserves a lot of credit for the previous four years.

My concern this season is not getting relegated but the way in which it has happened. With our current squad and having spent over £100m we should not have the worse record (and multiple at that) out of the English football pyramid.

We have lost the majority of the games this season with little to no fight and that is not my Sheffield United. We have never had a lot of money or superstar players but the thing that always works for Sheffield United is a togetherness of the team and a fighting spirit. This season that has barely been seen and we are going down without a fight.

The signings not working out, the injuries and the mistakes cannot be blamed on Wilder. What I don’t understand is how he has persisted to play the same tactics week in, week out and stuck with this despite it resulting in us losing around 80% of our games. I’m pretty sure if this hadn’t been Wilder at Sheffield United, he‘d have been sacked at Christmas at any other club.

My worry now is that he will continue to play the same tactic and players for the remaining games and the results will continue to be the same and will drain every last ounce of confidence out of the majority of the players. This will then be very difficult to come back from and will lead to a nervy start next season and if we don’t start well, a toxic atmosphere at BDTBL.

We are now 100% relegated so the rest of the season is a free hit. There is no point in sacking him now so it’s time for him to try something different, experiment, maybe give one or two of the promising youngsters some game time and just start preparing for next season. Maybe this will result in a couple of hammerings but maybe it also might freshen things up and a bit of fight back.

I remember the Wilder who said he wanted to play on the front foot, positive attacking football, no sideways and backwards passing. Hopefully that Wilder will return and bring the team with him!

Wilder should also take some responsibility for the signings. He wants control over them, so can’t have it both ways.

That said, the policy of low wages and high fee based on potential isn’t his. He tried to sign players that have been successful in the premier league, but our wage structure stopped them happening.

I’m a bit stuck on what to do for the rest of the season. For example - Brewster has been terrible, but might be a different proposition in a team that maintains possession. Do we risk destroying him on a hopeless cause for the rest of the season, in order to give him game time?

 

[ucandomagic]

This was the first interview where Chris stopped looking backwards, at what was clearly inevitable, and started looking forwards. He talked a number of times about past and future recruitment and young players.

It’s time we did the same. Rammers, JOC, Egan, Sander, Fleck, Rhian, McB, Burke and Moose are the basis of our future. We have a dozen games to put some experience around them, but to build our system around them and not around our experienced players.

If we can keep them, our defence will be back from injury, and so we have to use the next 12 games as a preseason for a young final third to develop a system and the confidence to take next season by storm.

Magic has to be Earned - it’s not Given

 

[Ron_Justice]

I get the impression, that for some of the loudest Wilder denouncers, the question of value for money in the transfer market is the bitterest pill to swallow. It got me thinking, when comparing CWAK to the likes of Porterfield, Bassett and Warnock what their spending would look like today. In today's market / world and with today's value of the pound.

As a metric, take Trevor Francis' £1,000,000 record breaking move to Forest in 1979. Today, that move (which was approximately double that of the previous highest record signing BTW) would cost a little over £5,175,000 and that's without taking the 'crazy money' of the modern PL market into account. A five times increase or 'devalue' of the pound in the last the 42 years.

So, for want of a name, let's highlight Brewster:

If 'Porterfield had bought' Brewster, in 1986, it would have cost around £6,000,000 - UK Record that year was Mark Hughes to Barcelona for around £2,300,000 or £6,300,000 adjusted for the value of the pound today.

If 'Basset had bought' Brewster, in 1995, it would have cost around £11,750,000 - UK Record that year was Dennis Bergkamp to Arsenal for around £7,500,000 or £14,750,000 adjusted for the value of the pound today.

Between 1995 and 1996 the record UK transfer fee almost doubled, and signaled the start of silly season, from £8,500,000 (Stan Collymore to Liverpool) to £15,000,000 (Alan Sheerer to Newcastle)

If 'Warnock had bought' Brewster, in 2007, it would have cost around £16,300,000 - UK Record that year was Andriy Shevchenko to Chelsea for around £30,800,000 or £43,700,000 adjusted for the value of the pound today.

As of right now, the record fee for a PL player is £94,500,000 for Paul Pogba. Or £31,250,000 in 1986 or £47,500,00 in 1995 or £66,000,000 in 2007.

At the risk of muddying the waters even further, with my maths... Adjusted for time and relative values:

Pogba is 13.5 times more expensive than Mark Hughes

Pogba is 12.6 times more expensive than Dennis Bergkamp

Pogba is 3.06 times more expensive than Andriy Shevchenko

So, to keep things relative, and taking the 'Pogba Metric (PM)' above as the factor by which to judge adjusted 'value'. If we take the value of the Most Expensive player in the country, in those years highlighted, and divide the value of Rhian Brewster by that PM, what do we get?

£23,500,000 divided by 13.5 = £1,740,740 v's £2,300,000 for the most expensive player or 75% of the value.

£23,500,000 divided by 12.6 = £1,865,079 v's £7,500,000 for the most expensive player or 25% of the value

£23,500,000 divided by 3.06 = £7,679,738 v's £30,800,000 for the most expensive player or 25% of the value

I'm not sure what any of this really shows other than the mental inflation on player transfer fees, during the PL Era makes worthy comparisons kinda redundant. It does however put some values up there for discussion and highlights that in the modern era at least, we bought a player (our most expensive ever) who is broadly only worth around a quarter of those at the very top and that value has been, broadly, consistent for the last 27 years. At least.

*** I'm no mathematician, but I think these figures hold up. Go easy...

 

[Superblade7]

Wilder should also take some responsibility for the signings. He wants control over them, so can’t have it both ways.

That said, the policy of low wages and high fee based on potential isn’t his. He tried to sign players that have been successful in the premier league, but our wage structure stopped them happening.

I’m a bit stuck on what to do for the rest of the season. For example - Brewster has been terrible, but might be a different proposition in a team that maintains possession. Do we risk destroying him on a hopeless cause for the rest of the season, in order to give him game time?

I don’t think there is a simple answer, but clearly the answer is not 5-3-2 / 3-5-2.

The problem with our current formation is that our midfield plays deep and gets overwhelmed and the better Premier League teams know to press our wingbacks so they can’t get forward. This effectively nullifies our entire attacking game and we create nothing as we’ve seen for the majority of the season.

Wilder has a tendency to always make subs and change the formation to 4-4-2 / 4-3-3 around the 65th minute but usually by that time this season we are chasing the game.

The Liverpool game was a good example last night that when we switched to 4-4-2 we actually had more possession in the middle and started having a go and created a few chances.

To answer your point on Brewster, yes he has been very poor to date but, along with the other strikers, has been given very little service. Having spent £43m on him and McBurnie and the other strikers not getting any younger, I’d assume they are our main option in the Championship so let’s give them some game time to try and develop an understanding of each other’s game.

I genuinely don’t know what formation or players will be the best options but what is certain is that we are at rock bottom and the only definite thing is to not continue with the current tactics.

UTB

 

[wak1889]

Not from me. And from most others based on online polls. Wilder is my number 1. He’s still took us further than Basset (up one division), and the quality of football sets them apart.

Both legends for me though.

How did Wilder take us further than basset? Bassett had a relegation in his first season, but the damage was done before he took over, then he led us to back to back promotions from the old 3rd division to the old first division (2 divisions up) kept us up, then he got us to wembley in an FA cup semi final which we hadn't been to in years at the time , he kept us up for 4 seasons , against teams with better players, bigger budgets, all the stuff Wilder bangs on about, people say the football under Wilder is better , it may be nicer to watch , but when you have lost 24 out of 29 games and had the worst start in the history of top flight football it cannot be better

 

[alcoblade]

How did Wilder take us further than basset? Bassett had a relegation in his first season, but the damage was done before he took over, then he led us to back to back promotions from the old 3rd division to the old first division (2 divisions up) kept us up, then he got us to wembley in an FA cup semi final which we hadn't been to in years at the time , he kept us up for 4 seasons , against teams with better players, bigger budgets, all the stuff Wilder bangs on about, people say the football under Wilder is better , it may be nicer to watch , but when you have lost 24 out of 29 games and had the worst start in the history of top flight football it cannot be better

It’s a good debate.

I wouldn’t let Basset completely off the hook for not keeping us up, but get the counter argument.

I struggled with the football played under Basset after we were relegated.

 

[DaleHillBlade]

He gave us a fantastic trip up through the divisions and a wonderful first season in PL. This season has been shit and some of that reflects on Wilder. But not enough to damage his reputation. If he stays, then he has the opportunity to add to the positives, if he leaves then I’m not so sure.

 

[ancientblade]

I don’t think there is a simple answer, but clearly the answer is not 5-3-2 / 3-5-2.

The problem with our current formation is that our midfield plays deep and gets overwhelmed and the better Premier League teams know to press our wingbacks so they can’t get forward. This effectively nullifies our entire attacking game and we create nothing as we’ve seen for the majority of the season.

Wilder has a tendency to always make subs and change the formation to 4-4-2 / 4-3-3 around the 65th minute but usually by that time this season we are chasing the game.

The Liverpool game was a good example last night that when we switched to 4-4-2 we actually had more possession in the middle and started having a go and created a few chances.

To answer your point on Brewster, yes he has been very poor to date but, along with the other strikers, has been given very little service. Having spent £43m on him and McBurnie and the other strikers not getting any younger, I’d assume they are our main option in the Championship so let’s give them some game time to try and develop an understanding of each other’s game.

I genuinely don’t know what formation or players will be the best options but what is certain is that we are at rock bottom and the only definite thing is to not continue with the current tactics.

UTB

your right when we went 442 we had an extra body in midfield and got a bit more possesion this 352 has turned in to 532 its ok when bash and joc overlap they move in to midfield but this 5 at the back just invites pressure personally i would go 451 for the rest of the season using osborn on the left and bogle when fit on the right

 

[BanderSerge]

I said after 2018-19 that Wilder was second only to Bassett in my United supporting lifetime, and that he wasn't done yet.

After last season, it was very close between them. Not any more.

We have had a lot of things go against us this season, but Wilder has had an awful season in terms of signings and tactics and regression of the existing squad. Just awful.

Love Bassett. But his style of football was more akin to rugby, hence why are still despised by a lot of the country. CWAK have, until this season, done it by playing brilliant, entertaining football.

 

[Bennyand the Blades]

My heads in a whirl with all these figures and tack ticks people keep trotting out, for me football is a simple game, my team has to score more goals than the other team, or it spoils my week end.
I'm not a proud chap I expect the other teams to put up a fight and maybe even win a few now and then due to bad refereeing. but the premiership dose my head in,
If you haven't got wheel barrows full of cash forget it, because all you will be doing up here is making up the numbers.
I can't wait for this season to be over and done and everything back to normal, and for those who like this kind of Sherrard, buy a Sky pass to watch it, because that's what most of us would have to do to see our team if they were successful up here....

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

I think that if Wilder left at the end of the season he would still be in credit but his reputation has been tarnished. A lot of excuses can be directed to; Covid, lack of fans and a fixture list at the start of the season that almost couldn’t be tougher, plus the steady flow of long term injuries to vital players.
What he can be criticised for are his defensive, negative tactics. Chopping and changing his strikers and defenders. Taking no responsibility for when things have clearly gone wrong. His loyal selection and support of Lunny, which is a complete contradiction to the he handled Duffy, despite Lunny offering nothing and has no intention of staying here.

 

[The Bear]

I agree with many of the comments on here as Wilder definitely deserves a lot of credit for the previous four years.

My concern this season is not getting relegated but the way in which it has happened. With our current squad and having spent over £100m we should not have the worse record (and multiple at that) out of the English football pyramid.

We have lost the majority of the games this season with little to no fight and that is not my Sheffield United. We have never had a lot of money or superstar players but the thing that always works for Sheffield United is a togetherness of the team and a fighting spirit. This season that has barely been seen and we are going down without a fight.

The signings not working out, the injuries and the mistakes cannot be blamed on Wilder. What I don’t understand is how he has persisted to play the same tactics week in, week out and stuck with this despite it resulting in us losing around 80% of our games. I’m pretty sure if this hadn’t been Wilder at Sheffield United, he‘d have been sacked at Christmas at any other club.

My worry now is that he will continue to play the same tactic and players for the remaining games and the results will continue to be the same and will drain every last ounce of confidence out of the majority of the players. This will then be very difficult to come back from and will lead to a nervy start next season and if we don’t start well, a toxic atmosphere at BDTBL.

We are now 100% relegated so the rest of the season is a free hit. There is no point in sacking him now so it’s time for him to try something different, experiment, maybe give one or two of the promising youngsters some game time and just start preparing for next season. Maybe this will result in a couple of hammerings but maybe it also might freshen things up and a bit of fight back.

I remember the Wilder who said he wanted to play on the front foot, positive attacking football, no sideways and backwards passing. Hopefully that Wilder will return and bring the team with him!

Abso bloody lutely! It is his timid and frankly boring post match excuses which piss me off. Last year all about competing, this year all about we shouldn't be here blah blah, 2 seasons out of 27 in the PL or whatever. Honest no wonder we are playing in frigging pink, should be surrender yellow or white. Grrrr.

We're not stupid Chris, we know half the team is crocked but it doesn't mean you dont fight.

 

[Davalon]

His reputation has definitely been damaged, both among our fans and in the wider footballing world. I don’t think he’d be a strong candidate for a Premier League job or maybe even a top Championship job at the moment. That’s why I think it’s a bit rich (to say the least) to suggest the club has a job on getting him to stay this summer.

But a strong majority of our fans want him to stay and have another crack at the Championship. He will have chance to rebuild his reputation again.

Hopefully.

I saw someone on here last night saying that his bessie was on Twitter intimating he may leave at the end of the season.

Anyone know what was said?

 

[dc_blade]

Hopefully.

I saw someone on here last night saying that his bessie was on Twitter intimating he may leave at the end of the season.

Anyone know what was said?

I paraphrased it in my comment. The gist was: the board's biggest test this summer will be keeping hold of the manager.

 

[Sportbilly /Detroit Blade]

I get the impression, that for some of the loudest Wilder denouncers, the question of value for money in the transfer market is the bitterest pill to swallow. It got me thinking, when comparing CWAK to the likes of Porterfield, Bassett and Warnock what their spending would look like today. In today's market / world and with today's value of the pound.

As a metric, take Trevor Francis' £1,000,000 record breaking move to Forest in 1979. Today, that move (which was approximately double that of the previous highest record signing BTW) would cost a little over £5,175,000 and that's without taking the 'crazy money' of the modern PL market into account. A five times increase or 'devalue' of the pound in the last the 42 years.

So, for want of a name, let's highlight Brewster:

If 'Porterfield had bought' Brewster, in 1986, it would have cost around £6,000,000 - UK Record that year was Mark Hughes to Barcelona for around £2,300,000 or £6,300,000 adjusted for the value of the pound today.

If 'Basset had bought' Brewster, in 1995, it would have cost around £11,750,000 - UK Record that year was Dennis Bergkamp to Arsenal for around £7,500,000 or £14,750,000 adjusted for the value of the pound today.

Between 1995 and 1996 the record UK transfer fee almost doubled, and signaled the start of silly season, from £8,500,000 (Stan Collymore to Liverpool) to £15,000,000 (Alan Sheerer to Newcastle)

If 'Warnock had bought' Brewster, in 2007, it would have cost around £16,300,000 - UK Record that year was Andriy Shevchenko to Chelsea for around £30,800,000 or £43,700,000 adjusted for the value of the pound today.

As of right now, the record fee for a PL player is £94,500,000 for Paul Pogba. Or £31,250,000 in 1986 or £47,500,00 in 1995 or £66,000,000 in 2007.

At the risk of muddying the waters even further, with my maths... Adjusted for time and relative values:

Pogba is 13.5 times more expensive than Mark Hughes

Pogba is 12.6 times more expensive than Dennis Bergkamp

Pogba is 3.06 times more expensive than Andriy Shevchenko

So, to keep things relative, and taking the 'Pogba Metric (PM)' above as the factor by which to judge adjusted 'value'. If we take the value of the Most Expensive player in the country, in those years highlighted, and divide the value of Rhian Brewster by that PM, what do we get?

£23,500,000 divided by 13.5 = £1,740,740 v's £2,300,000 for the most expensive player or 75% of the value.

£23,500,000 divided by 12.6 = £1,865,079 v's £7,500,000 for the most expensive player or 25% of the value

£23,500,000 divided by 3.06 = £7,679,738 v's £30,800,000 for the most expensive player or 25% of the value

I'm not sure what any of this really shows other than the mental inflation on player transfer fees, during the PL Era makes worthy comparisons kinda redundant. It does however put some values up there for discussion and highlights that in the modern era at least, we bought a player (our most expensive ever) who is broadly only worth around a quarter of those at the very top and that value has been, broadly, consistent for the last 27 years. At least.

*** I'm no mathematician, but I think these figures hold up. Go easy...

That post blew my mind

 

[Robboblade1889]

Abso bloody lutely! It is his timid and frankly boring post match excuses which piss me off. Last year all about competing, this year all about we shouldn't be here blah blah, 2 seasons out of 27 in the PL or whatever. Honest no wonder we are playing in frigging pink, should be surrender yellow or white. Grrrr.

We're not stupid Chris, we know half the team is crocked but it doesn't mean you dont fight.

Give over don’t fight. These players may not be good enough but don’t accuse them of not fighting in the majority of games. If they didn’t fight they would be getting dicked 3, 4 or 5 nil every week. Look at Burnley Sunday or Southampton they are decent teams who have been hammered a few times we haven’t which leads me to believe the fight is there just not the the skill.

 

[JJBlade]

I can't see how one poor season out of pretty much an entire career of success damages his reputation.

Frankly I'm still amazed he got us promoted in the first place. People seem to take a lot for granted at the moment.

The system we play gets the maximum out of the limited set of players we've got. I can't see how binning off something that's had great success is suddenly going to mark a stunning change in results.

I see the old magic wand of we should sign better players is coming out as well.

Let's calm our frustrations, accept we're getting relegated and at least comprehend the job Wilder has done to get us to playing the likes of Liverpool in the first place.

What is damaging his reputation is not his stubborn refusal to change tactics.

His reputation is being damaged because he HAS changed tactics.

His reputation is being damaged because after being told "No" he's been walking around with his bottom lip out like a four year old who's mother has said he's not having another ice cream.

Our downturn in form and fluent play started last January/February around the same time Wilders bottom lip started to appear and it has got progressively worse

 

[The Bear]

Give over don’t fight. These players may not be good enough but don’t accuse them of not fighting in the majority of games. If they didn’t fight they would be getting dicked 3, 4 or 5 nil every week. Look at Burnley Sunday or Southampton they are decent teams who have been hammered a few times we haven’t which leads me to believe the fight is there just not the the skill.

Think you totally missed that one....

 

[SilkyBlade]

Let’s get one thing clear I’m not wanting him to go and I’m not saying many people are. We’re all aware of the amazing job he’s done etc etc etc but is his stubbornness of not changing style and formation a factor of our current standing?
There’s lots of arguments we can throw about like budgets, wage structures, injuries and a load more things into the mix but I’m sensing he’s losing a bit of respect amongst a lot of fans for not changing things up.
If we get off to a bad start in the championship next season I can see him getting the bullet and it’ll be sad to take after these last few years but as he says himself “nobody is bigger than the club”

Reputation definitely no as too many mitigating factors this season but he has lost some respect from me...the success and way we have achieved it has been truly unforgettable but what made him so special to me was his honesty whether it be good or bad. It felt like he was the better version of all of us and so it has come has a huge disappointment when things have not gone to plan that the one guy we all needed to be 100% brutally honest with us, accepting some blame and taking responsibility has drifted away from this most enviable of qualities. He stated yesterday after the match that ‘ I have brought £240M in to the club’ which again is not a quality I recognise in this man given how AK and players must have felt hearing that. So reputation no, but respect yes which is more disappointing than anything else

 

[JJBlade]

His reputation is only in danger in the sense that he's managing a club whose fanbase is dominated by gobby, pitchfork wielding scumbags who will ALWAYS turn on their best eventually.

Absolute bullshit