New Head of Operations appointed

[Highbury_Blade]

If an individual is claiming to be self-employed he or she has the option of issuing invoices to SUFC for consultancy services either personally or via a Limited Company. He or she can then receive dividends from the Ltd Co after payment of corporation tax. Very tax efficient when compared with the PAYE and NI which would be due if HMRC successfully argued that the individual was in fact an employee.

Depends on how long he's working for, and the terms in his contract. If it's only six months then i doubt very much whether he'd be caught by IR35 (if even you know what that is). Even if it's longer than that, there are plenty of other legal structures that would give him 80% returns without going down the Limited Company route.

He may even be working for the club on a part-time basis only, in which case IR35 goes out of the window.

I'd take Nick's advice if i were you. You clearly haven't a clue what you're talking about.

 

[lenners]

Mr Jansky,
When someone is appointed, the first thing they should do is set out their stall publicly, establish lines of communication and make clear what their role is.
In this day and age, the key line of communication with fans is the internet.
As far as I can tell he's done nothing at all on this front. Zilch.
On top of that, the vital role of a fans representative at this point of the year would be season tickets.
We are now in February and it may already to be too late to put meaningful ideas to the club, to find positive ways of developing a dialogue that at least shows the club is listening - even if it ultimately doesn't agree.
Sorry Mr J - and I don't know his background - but he's failed in a role that revolves around communication to communicate.
Cut it how you like, denigrate me all you like, couldn't give a flying but on this I am right.

 

[Foxy]

When someone is appointed, the first thing they should do is set out their stall publicly, establish lines of communication and make clear what their role is.
In this day and age, the key line of communication with fans is the internet. As far as I can tell he's done nothing at all on this front. Zilch.

http://www.twitter.com/rbsufc

[email protected] - As publicised on the official website and mentioned here.

You could always try phoning SUFC and asking for him too.

Even failing those, there was a chance to raise any issues at the AGM and as a site we've offered to and have taken any comments, suggestions or questions and give them to the club.

That or just use your energy slagging people off on here instead.

 

[lenners]

http://www.twitter.com/rbsufc

[email protected] - As publicised on the official website and mentioned here.

You could always try phoning SUFC and asking for him too.

Even failing those, there was a chance to raise any issues at the AGM and as a site we've offered to and have taken any comments, suggestions or questions and give them to the club.

That or just use your energy slagging people off on here instead.

You see slagging off, I know it's entirely bang on the money valid criticism.
The issue of communication was raised at the time and for that role to mean anything at all it would have to involve the fans representative being proactive to show he meant business and the role actually meant something.
Just putting out a press release and leaving an email address isn't remotely near that.

 

[Foxy]

You see slagging off, I know it's entirely bang on the money valid criticism.
The issue of communication was raised at the time and for that role to mean anything at all it would have to involve the fans representative being proactive to show he meant business and the role actually meant something.
Just putting out a press release and leaving an email address isn't remotely near that.

We could just get to the point and ask why you've not been approached as the oracle?

You said they hadn't established lines of communication, ignoring multiple methods of communication offered, how do you know people aren't busy with the people who've decided to take up the opportunity to have their say?

You'll be telling me their mailserver is in a cabinet in the hotel next so you refuse to use it

 

[lenners]

We could just get to the point and ask why you've not been approached as the oracle?

You said they hadn't established lines of communication, ignoring multiple methods of communication offered, how do you know people aren't busy with the people who've decided to take up the opportunity to have their say?

You'll be telling me their mailserver is in a cabinet in the hotel next so you refuse to use it

If that's true - and I really doubt it - why is there no feedback?
Why is there no communication of what's been raised, what's happened as a result?
It's a role that revolves around communication, no escaping that, and he's failing on that point.
And I go back to the season ticket point. It's a great opportunity to engage supporters, something the club has so badly failed to do for the last two years.
And there's been nothing. Now, it maybe that is something the club just aren't interested in/more likely just don't care about.
But again, that is something he could communicate.
A lot of its common sense Foxy, no need for an oracle.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Cut it how you like, denigrate me all you like, couldn't give a flying but on this I am right.

Well you have clearly made your mind up, and once you have done so you have always been a bit Thatcherite in the past. But its much too early to tell whether you are right or wrong on this one, and in the past I will concede that you have been roughly slightly better than 50:50 on how you have called things. And where you have called it wrong its because you haven't really known what you are talking about, admittedly generally on footballing rather than business matters where you have been pretty good, and thats fair enough, if you are commenting from a position of ignorance you can't be expected to be right.

On that basis, and knowing Richard as I do, I prefer to reserve judgment, and I won't call it either way just yet.

One thing is for sure, he's doing his best under difficult circumstances, and he certainly knows the size of the task he has taken on. The sad thing is that the very people he would like to be an advocate for are not exactly making it easy. Where I do agree with you is that its because there is a much deeper malaise at the club. Where you are wrong is that you are underestimating the task he has on his hands and you expect him to put everything right in a couple of weeks. Believe it or not, it isn't all about this forum and mollifying you, our fan base is a much broader church. But its up to you, and reflects on you, if you don't want to give him time. I guess you personify the Blades Way.

Maybe come up with a more considered view when you haven't just watched us lose at home yet again & had a few drinks?

Oh and Mic, if you were thinking of weighing in on this, I'm engaging with the organ grinder, not the monkey. Although I would be pleased to hear Olle's views.

 

[Foxy]

A lot of its common sense Foxy, no need for an oracle.

Common sense would tell you, that I'm not the person you need to be asking

I wonder just how you could find a way to ask those you require answers from?

If only there was a way, perhaps taking advantage of modern technology, or failing that some form of opportunity to raise any questions in person, perhaps with all the men present at that time?

 

[lenners]

Common sense would tell you, that I'm not the person you need to be asking

I wonder just how you could find a way to ask those you require answers from?

If only there was a way, perhaps taking advantage of modern technology, or failing that some form of opportunity to raise any questions in person, perhaps with all the men present at that time?

Foxy, if we have a fans rep who doesn't read the forums and who doesn't post on them, we have a pretty pointless fans rep.

 

[Foxy]

Foxy, if we have a fans rep who doesn't read the forums and who doesn't post on them, we have a pretty pointless fans rep.

He does read them, without a shadow of a doubt.

Still, if only there was just one way you could get your thoughts across or engage in any dialogue!

 

[Nick Jansky]

He does read them, without a shadow of a doubt.

Still, if only there was just one way you could get your thoughts across or engage in any dialogue!

Top stuff Foxy, loving it!! ;-)

 

[lenners]

Well you have clearly made your mind up, and once you have done so you have always been a bit Thatcherite in the past. But its much too early to tell whether you are right or wrong on this one, and in the past I will concede that you have been roughly slightly better than 50:50 on how you have called things. And where you have called it wrong its because you haven't really known what you are talking about, admittedly generally on footballing rather than business matters where you have been pretty good, and thats fair enough, if you are commenting from a position of ignorance you can't be expected to be right.

On that basis, and knowing Richard as I do, I prefer to reserve judgment, and I won't call it either way just yet.

One thing is for sure, he's doing his best under difficult circumstances, and he certainly knows the size of the task he has taken on. The sad thing is that the very people he would like to be an advocate for are not exactly making it easy. Where I do agree with you is that its because there is a much deeper malaise at the club. Where you are wrong is that you are underestimating the task he has on his hands and you expect him to put everything right in a couple of weeks. Believe it or not, it isn't all about this forum and mollifying you, our fan base is a much broader church. But its up to you, and reflects on you, if you don't want to give him time. I guess you personify the Blades Way.

Maybe come up with a more considered view when you haven't just watched us lose at home yet again & had a few drinks?

Oh and Mic, if you were thinking of weighing in on this, I'm engaging with the organ grinder, not the monkey. Although I would be pleased to hear Olle's views.

Stone cold sober Mr J and stone cold right.
In a role that revolves around communication - it's pretty much the raison d'etre of the job - you fail if you don't communicate.
One thing that Strafford did get right, though he went about it in often a comically wrong way, was that fans forums are the key line of communication with fans.
A fans rep that fails to recognise that and use that line of communication is simply going to fail in this day and age.
I do actually trust your judgement and I suspect Mr B is probably a nice, well-meaning guy.
But if he wants his role to have meaning he has to be proactive.
As for the malaise, I wouldn't remotely expect him to put that right.
But a first step would be the club getting the fans engaged regarding season tickets.
If they are unwilling to do that, he should tell fans that and he might also want to consider whether the club are taking him and us for a ride.

---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 PM ----------

He does read them, without a shadow of a doubt.

Still, if only there was just one way you could get your thoughts across or engage in any dialogue!

And therein part of the problem possibly starts to emerge. The danger of cosy relationships with influential fans as opposed to doing the real job and making sure there's wide involvement and engagement.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Stone cold sober Mr J and stone cold right.
In a role that revolves around communication - it's pretty much the raison d'etre of the job - you fail if you don't communicate.
One thing that Strafford did get right, though he went about it in often a comically wrong way, was that fans forums are the key line of communication with fans.
A fans rep that fails to recognise that and use that line of communication is simply going to fail in this day and age.
I do actually trust your judgement and I suspect Mr B is probably a nice, well-meaning guy.
But if he wants his role to have meaning he has to be proactive.
As for the malaise, I wouldn't remotely expect him to put that right.
But a first step would be the club getting the fans engaged regarding season tickets.
If they are unwilling to do that, he should tell fans that and he might also want to consider whether the club are taking him and us for a ride.

He's certainly well meaning, but not sure I would call him nice!!

Why don't you engage with him, perhaps maybe even meet up with him? Then you could make a more reasoned judgment. He wouldn't give you any bullshit, he wouldn't trot out the club's line, and he would certainly take your ideas on board. He would also explain exactly what he sees his role as being and the difficulties he faces in delivering it.

It can be arranged. Wouldn't that make sense?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

To be fair to len he is right about the messageboards. They are a key line of communication with the fans, and with this board being the least hostile, i would have at least expected Batho to start here.

A good example of someone who uses the messageboards to good effect is Charles Krulack at Villa. Once a distinguished General in the US marines, he now sorts out the poor sanitation facilities at villa amongst other things

Every little helps. Batho should definitely be coming on here and communicating.

 

[lenners]

He's certainly well meaning, but not sure I would call him nice!!

Why don't you engage with him, perhaps maybe even meet up with him? Then you could make a more reasoned judgment. He wouldn't give you any bullshit, he wouldn't trot out the club's line, and he would certainly take your ideas on board. He would also explain exactly what he sees his role as being and the difficulties he faces in delivering it.

It can be arranged. Wouldn't that make sense?

I'd rather he spent that time communicating on here and the other main site than having cosy chats with individual fans.
There are many fans with brains on here who have ideas to offer and this is an ideal way to gather them up, talk about them, get wide engagement and so on.
What does concern me is your comment about how difficult the job is.
He is being paid by the club and I wonder how strong those strings are.
But without him being clear what his role is, we don't know that either.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

NJ, what does concern me, if he's doing it on a consultancy basis, the club clearly don't see this as a long term thing.

 

[Nick Jansky]

NJ, what does concern me, if he's doing it on a consultancy basis, the club clearly don't see this as a long term thing.

Maybe the club are recognising the rift between them & the fans, are trying to address it, but recognising that it might be irreversible.....

If it works, I'm sure it will be made a permanent position, but given the degree of mistrust between the club & fans at the moment......

I wouldn't fancy the job.

 

[Foxy]

And therein part of the problem possibly starts to emerge. The danger of cosy relationships with influential fans as opposed to doing the real job and making sure there's wide involvement and engagement.

Clearly reading a forum must suggest that on planet Leonard. Remind me again who said he should do it?

I'm still scratching around trying to think of just one single way you could get in touch.

 

[Micalijo]

Maybe the club are recognising the rift between them & the fans, are trying to address it, but recognising that it might be irreversible.....

If it works, I'm sure it will be made a permanent position, but given the degree of mistrust between the club & fans at the moment......

I wouldn't fancy the job.

My analysis of Batho's employment status and the opportunity for him to establish a Limited company and pay dividends - what was wrong with it? I'm a chartered tax adviser - deal with these things week in week out. What do you do? Promise you I know what I'm talking about.

Highbury - yes pal I know what IR35 is. Only applies where the individual with a service company would under the badges of trade be classed as an employee. Batho is by the sounds of it self-employed so IR35 wouldn't apply - hence he should set up a company.

What are these other 'legal' ways of getting 80% return on his income? Serious question.

If Batho is self employed he shouldn't have a contract - I assume you mean employment contract?

---------- Post added at 09:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 AM ----------

That is the only bit he hasn't done so far, mainly because he is still in the process of doing the rest. You see, we still have a large fan base, with widely varying opinions, and he has a big job to sift the positive suggestions for how to take things forward from the knee jerk mewling of the whiny cunts who take comfort from repeatedly kicking people for the mistakes of the past. Its like trying to filter a symphony out of a barrage of meaningless white noise.

Just because he hasn't posted on here yet doesn't mean that he isn't doing a meaningful & worthwhile job. You haven't got a clue what he is doing Len, and I'm sure he will broadcast a message loud & clear when he feels that he is in a position to do so. If that doesn't fit in with your agenda of when & how that should happen...... well, I would suggest that probably means he is getting it right. You having reverted to your previous position as king of the ill considered snap judgment & all that.

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------



What did you copy the first paragraph from, an AAT training manual? Naive little cherub, aren't you?

As for the rest, stop adopting such an obnoxious persona in your posts, and you might find that that your ideas, and you personally, are treated with a bit more respect. As things stand, you are generally regarded as a poor imitator of much more professional wind up merchants on this forum. You have neither the intellect nor the humour of those on here that you so dearly want to be bracketed with. "Top stuff, loving it" makes people cringe and makes you look like a wanker, even though I believe we possibly established a while ago that apparently you aren't, allegedly.

If I was you, I'd take your mate Cooper's advice, and stop trying to come across as an attention seeking arse. Now run along.

Not going anywhere - love getting these responses from you - the Great Jansky, SuperBlade and leader of the pack.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

Reading what is said from the background is sensible, club employees engaging on debate on message boards? Sorry Dudes, is a recipe for disaster....

 

[lenners]

Nope, though he got his style of communication wrong, Strafford was right about use of fans forums.
It's a no-brainer.

 

[Linz]

As far as I've seen, Richard has been spending his time contacting and meeting fans who have taken the time to email and call him. There is no such thing as a collective body of fans so he seems to be dealing with the most vocal who have the nous (or balls) to get in touch with him to raise their grievances and ideas.

We have passed the season ticket thread on to both Richard and Steve Lewis. I'd imagine plans were well under way for season tickets with a new commercial team wanting to put a stamp on the sales. But no matter how they pitch them at the moment, I'd imagine they were facing a losing battle with us not knowing what division we're going to be in.

At the moment, while he's bogged under, it seems your options are thus:

* Contact him directly

* Or rely on Foxy and I to pass stuff on from here via various channels

---------- Post added at 10:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------

It's a no-brainer.

I think the term is "brainless".

 

[lenners]

Bit odd for someone running a website facilitating communication between fans to suggest the fans rep using such a site would be 'brainless' but each to their own.
Makes no odds, I'll remain 100% right on that issue.
And you seem to be misunderstanding my concerns. I'm not bothered about my views in particular, I'm only bothered about the role being worthwhile and how you achieve that.
As for your comment there is no such thing as a collective body of fans, I'm sure you'll reconsider that one.
This is a collective body of fans, so is the other site, so are supporters clubs though they don't have the immediacy and ease of communication forums have.
As regards what division we're in, going to make little difference. Big ideas are needed full stop.

 

[Linz]

Bit odd for someone running a website facilitating communication between fans to suggest the fans rep using such a site would be 'brainless' but each to their own.
Makes no odds, I'll remain 100% right on that issue.

My comment was aimed at the way he went about it... which appeared to border on "posting under the influence" at times.

And after all, we wouldn't want to be made out to be whores of the club

And you seem to be misunderstanding my concerns. I'm not bothered about my views in particular, I'm only bothered about the role being worthwhile and how you achieve that.

He's speaking to people on a one-to-one basis.

He's helped to address a lot of immediate and easily-fixed concerns, a lot of which stemmed from a thread we had on here which was used as the basis of a BIFF meeting. Stuff about Hendersons relish, goal music, GCB lyrics etc... all small stuff but stuff which people made a point of raising and stuff that was easily fixed.

I won't speak for Richard, but I do know for a fact that he considers himself not the most technical and would prefer to meet people in person or talk to them over the phone. To that end, he uses Foxy and I as a gauge to the requests on here and he's also spoken with/met with some of the people who run the other site too.

As for your comment there is no such thing as a collective body of fans, I'm sure you'll reconsider that one.
This is a collective body of fans, so is the other site, so are supporters clubs though they don't have the immediacy and ease of communication forums have.

But within those broad ranges of people, you have a lot of individuals with a lot of individual priorities and concerns. If someone feels strongly about something, they have clear ways of communicating with Richard or indeed anyone within the club. Their email addresses are obvious. Their telephone numbers are on the website. They hold Q&A sessions.

More could always be done, but someone sitting on here all day listening to knee-jerk complaints is what I'd call a waste of a role.

As regards what division we're in, going to make little difference. Big ideas are needed full stop.

And just because they haven't released them, who's to say big ideas aren't in the offing? Nothing has been announced on season tickets, so would it be unfair to say that judgement should be reserved?

 

[Trigger Blade]

My analysis of Batho's employment status and the opportunity for him to establish a Limited company and pay dividends - what was wrong with it? I'm a chartered tax adviser - deal with these things week in week out. What do you do? Promise you I know what I'm talking about.

Highbury - yes pal I know what IR35 is. Only applies where the individual with a service company would under the badges of trade be classed as an employee. Batho is by the sounds of it self-employed so IR35 wouldn't apply - hence he should set up a company.

What are these other 'legal' ways of getting 80% return on his income? Serious question.

If Batho is self employed he shouldn't have a contract - I assume you mean employment contract?

Apart from whether it's a full-time post working for SUFC, isn't everything else related to Richard Batho's employment status a complete irrelevance to us? Just becasue you're an expert on companies and taxation, doesn't mean it's of any consequence.

You could just admit you dug a bit of a hole for yourself with your initial throwaway comment and let it go.

 

[Micalijo]

Yep, it's irrelevant. Daft comment yes, pointless yes, but my good friend Jansky asked why and then started with his ritual of abuse and aggression so I answered his question. I don't get what this hole is when I am 100% adamant I know what I am talking about as much as they do, possibly more.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Yep, it's irrelevant. Daft comment yes, pointless yes, but my good friend Jansky asked why and then started with his ritual of abuse and aggression so I answered his question. I don't get what this hole is when I am 100% adamant I know what I am talking about as much as they do, possibly more.

I meant that you dug the hole with the reference to HMRC and an implication of tax massage, your good friend Jansky took you up on it and it went from there.

 

[Micalijo]

I meant that you dug the hole with the reference to HMRC and an implication of tax massage, your good friend Jansky took you up on it and it went from there.

Nope, I was meant to be taking the piss out of Jansky saying 'he aint an employee', he is 'working for' the club on a consultancy basis. That's all and I regret any implication of anything like you are suggesting but I aint going to take the abuse and agression from him and Highbury with no response.

I take consultant to mean self-employed, but NHS consultants are employees so I am well aware I haven't got a clue what the exact set-up is.

No problem at all I am sure, perfectly sensible arrangement. No way should Batho be an employee if his role is what I think it is.

 

[lenners]

My comment was aimed at the way he went about it... which appeared to border on "posting under the influence" at times.

And after all, we wouldn't want to be made out to be whores of the club



He's speaking to people on a one-to-one basis.

He's helped to address a lot of immediate and easily-fixed concerns, a lot of which stemmed from a thread we had on here which was used as the basis of a BIFF meeting. Stuff about Hendersons relish, goal music, GCB lyrics etc... all small stuff but stuff which people made a point of raising and stuff that was easily fixed.

I won't speak for Richard, but I do know for a fact that he considers himself not the most technical and would prefer to meet people in person or talk to them over the phone. To that end, he uses Foxy and I as a gauge to the requests on here and he's also spoken with/met with some of the people who run the other site too.



But within those broad ranges of people, you have a lot of individuals with a lot of individual priorities and concerns. If someone feels strongly about something, they have clear ways of communicating with Richard or indeed anyone within the club. Their email addresses are obvious. Their telephone numbers are on the website. They hold Q&A sessions.

More could always be done, but someone sitting on here all day listening to knee-jerk complaints is what I'd call a waste of a role.



And just because they haven't released them, who's to say big ideas aren't in the offing? Nothing has been announced on season tickets, so would it be unfair to say that judgement should be reserved?

Have I understood that our fans rep shouldn't post on here because he'd often be under the influence?
But generally, you've failed to grasp the issue of being pro-active.
The role isn't going to work if it's based on quiet, cosy chats with forum administrators who then tell the masses stuff like 'who's to say big ideas aren't in the offing?'
It's the role of the fans rep to be saying what's happening with season ticket ideas and everything else - not a vague ad-hoc spilling of information and hints by a proxy.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Have I understood that our fans rep shouldn't post on here because he'd often be under the influence?
But generally, you've failed to grasp the issue of being pro-active.
The role isn't going to work if it's based on quiet, cosy chats with forum administrators who then tell the masses stuff like 'who's to say big ideas aren't in the offing?'
It's the role of the fans rep to be saying what's happening with season ticket ideas and everything else - not a vague ad-hoc spilling of information and hints by a proxy.

Only one thing is certain len and that is that if it all goes wrong and fails, it won't be anything to do with you. You'll still be sat comfortably on the sidelines pointing fingers and giving your appraisal of what every body else has to do, or not do, defining people's jobs and roles.

You can continue to pontificate with impugnity with no repsonsibility for anything, having neatly sidestepped NJ's offer to set up a face to face meetin. Vacuous stuff as usual, achieving zero.

Keep up the good work!