Norwood

[Nagima]

That's the one for me! I've said extensively on another thread - spending £20m on an unproven striker with a career of barely c20 Championship games when we already had Mousset, McBurnie and Burke in that same 'unproven'/taking a punt category, when we have a midfield that looked badly out of its depth at the end of last season was suicidal.

Imagine if a Director of Football had done that! Tufty would be going bananas

But if you look at the views of fans just before the start of the season the general consensus was we needed a better strike force and more depth in the squad.
While we had a poor run of form post lockdown we also had some good wins.
While I expected this season to be more difficult than last. I didn't foresee the drop off in form from Fleck Norwood and Lundstram. Berge is a different matter. My view is the 5 3 2 system does not suit him. I would play him centrally in a 442. He has talent but CDM is more about receiving the ball and shifting play to the appropriate side of the field. It's heads up football. He likes to take touches and is a little too much right sided. On the right in a 3 man midfield he has to cover alot of ground and he is not a natural athlete.
So yes the recruitment proved to be disappointing. But we were crying out looking for a striker. And we ended up buying potential rather than proven which hasn't worked out.
Being honest I think we could argue on every position on the team on whether we should bought someone better.
All I can say is the squad needs to be radically different if we come back up.
We now see who is consistently at the level required to play in the PL. Which in my book is only Egan Berge and Didsy.
It will take a lot of smart recruitment like Brentford and Southampton to achieve that.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

But if you look at the views of fans just before the start of the season the general consensus was we needed a better strike force and more depth in the squad.
While we had a poor run of form post lockdown we also had some good wins.
While I expected this season to be more difficult than last. I didn't foresee the drop off in form from Fleck Norwood and Lundstram. Berge is a different matter. My view is the 5 3 2 system does not suit him. I would play him centrally in a 442. He has talent but CDM is more about receiving the ball and shifting play to the appropriate side of the field. It's heads up football. He likes to take touches and is a little too much right sided. On the right in a 3 man midfield he has to cover alot of ground and he is not a natural athlete.
So yes the recruitment proved to be disappointing. But we were crying out looking for a striker. And we ended up buying potential rather than proven which hasn't worked out.
Being honest I think we could argue on every position on the team on whether we should bought someone better.
All I can say is the squad needs to be radically different if we come back up.
We now see who is consistently at the level required to play in the PL. Which in my book is only Egan Berge and Didsy.
It will take a lot of smart recruitment like Brentford and Southampton to achieve that.

Yep, you're right and us fans, drunk on the hedonistic emotions of finishing 9th, thought a Liverpool Youth player with c20 Championship games under his belt would be the man to catapult us into Top 6 contention!?!?

And that is why we are fans and have no business being anywhere near running a football club!!

The betrayal (harsh word but it's the emotion I'm feeling) is that those who should know better made that decision too!!! Ignoring all the evidence before their eyes (Solanke, Woodburn, James Wilson) we still rolled the dice! As I say if a DoF had made this decision, Tufty wouldn't be shy about calling it out.

Ramsdale was an error of judgment, but one which happens. Brewster was a monumental error of negligent proportions.

Ageing Fleck and Norwood. Berge unsuited to the PL and Lundstram wanting to leave - the squad was screaming out for midfield reinforcements, yet we bought a 4th striker unproven at PL level...

 

[BanderSerge]

Yep, you're right and us fans, drunk on the hedonistic emotions of finishing 9th, thought a Liverpool Youth player with c20 Championship games under his belt would be the man to catapult us into Top 6 contention!?!?

And that is why we are fans and have no business being anywhere near running a football club!!

The betrayal (harsh word but it's the emotion I'm feeling) is that those who should know better made that decision too!!! Ignoring all the evidence before their eyes (Solanke, Woodburn, James Wilson) we still rolled the dice! As I say if a DoF had made this decision, Tufty wouldn't be shy about calling it out.

Ramsdale was an error of judgment, but one which happens. Brewster was a monumental error of negligent proportions.

Ageing Fleck and Norwood. Berge unsuited to the PL and Lundstram wanting to leave - the squad was screaming out for midfield reinforcements, yet we bought a 4th striker unproven at PL level...

Just out of interest, were you saying all this about Brewster while the transfer saga to sign him was dragging on? Or were you one of the “hurry up and get him signed, you tight twats” amongst us?

 

[idleurchin]

Can't argue with that this season
But no way were we average last season it was the 3rd highest we've finished in 60 years of watching them
This season we've played alright at times but suffered from having no finishing touch
Can't remember ever missing so many opportunities. That West Brom match we'd have scored 6 with Deane and Agana up front and 4 before half time v fulham

Read it again. I didn't say we were average last season, just the midfield. Started off great ended up poor. Average in total I would suggest.

We have played alright at times this season. Alright isn't good enough at this level with the squad we've got. They've just not been good enough.

 

[ancientblade]

Just out of interest, were you saying all this about Brewster while the transfer saga to sign him was dragging on? Or were you one of the “hurry up and get him signed, you tight twats” amongst us?

the west brom game was the catylist for this awful season 3 sitters missed and we should have won that game 5-1 think we would have kicked on from there as for rian brewster he will score 20 plus in the championship next season especially if we bring 2 good midfielders in to supply the ammunition

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Just out of interest, were you saying all this about Brewster while the transfer saga to sign him was dragging on? Or were you one of the “hurry up and get him signed, you tight twats” amongst us?

I was one of the In Tufty we Trust twats who's now feeling a little let down....

You?

 

[ancientblade]

I was one of the In Tufty we Trust twats who's now feeling a little let down....

You?

i was one of those as well and while i would still like the club to give him the chance of getting us back up next season i have been really dissapointed with chris this season his refusal to try a different system when its obvious his prefered set up isnt working is baffling

 

[Working Class Hero]

Ageing Fleck and Norwood. Berge unsuited to the PL and Lundstram wanting to leave - the squad was screaming out for midfield reinforcements, yet we bought a 4th striker unproven at PL level...

We needed reinforcements everywhere but I don't think any of that is fair. Other than the fact it was known a long time ago that we needed to replace Lundstram as he wouldn't sign the contract.

Fleck and Norwood are only 29 and performed very well last year (and the years before). They wouldn't have been top of anyone's list to replace.

Everyone would have assumed Berge would contribute something by now. It's only hindsight that tells you he's been ineffective and injured for 5 months.

 

[madeinsheffield]

Maybe he didn't get the players he actually wanted, had it have been me I would have wanted a proven goalscorer at this level, rather than a prospect, however he's had to go for a gradual improvement on what we had (yes hard to prove currently) and a few players have not kept up with the very very quick progression from being League 1 players to where we find ourselves, there have been some were hopeful that they'd be good enough for the Championship and sadly they weren't.

As good as last season was, expectations rose too quickly about us, we believed we were better than we are, pundits did, unfortunately so did the players and I think some of the desire isn't there with some of them and that's our difference that carried our lack of ability

 

[Booker4]

I guess that you are responding Toronto Blade Fan, not myself.
I agree we will get what we paid for Berge in performance and recoup the money spent to bring him in.

Yes mate, sorry should have tagged the other Toronto Blade! Maybe you should start a fans club there, if there isn't one already! I've been to Toronto actually, great city and I recall Pesh is from there, Scarborough isn't it!?

 

[blade too long]

I don't need to, our league position and points tally does us justice by themselves.

I imagine the Derby team of 2008 had equally optimistic fans as you, fair play.

I'm not optimistic about this season but I believe painting us as a disaster is way of the mark . The table has us a big failures
But we are have not been shafted 5 and 6 nil in games .
We are still 4 wins from safety as we were in october and despite only scoring 10 don't have an iretrievable goal difference
Won't see much change from the next 2 games But still have winnable games left
Maybe not enough to stay up but with players back fit to save face

 

[blade too long]

Read it again. I didn't say we were average last season, just the midfield. Started off great ended up poor. Average in total I would suggest.

We have played alright at times this season. Alright isn't good enough at this level with the squad we've got. They've just not been good enough.

It's a fact we play as a team . More than other sides as we can't afford the quality others have.. what we had last season held us together.
The spine of Henderson Oconnell and Mousset drove the team. Losing all 3 to injury or ambition has dropped our effectiveness by 30 per cent. The team has in being so good last season now exposed some players who were lifted by it being a good unit.
Both Norwood and Fleck have had their work load increased and shown to not be able to step up. Baldock and Stevens raids have fallen off by 70 per cent as the covers not there. We look better when Osborn is in as the grounds covered better.
The return of oconnell and a fit Mousset and some fresh blood in midfield will see a rise in our ability to compete again as we did . We got spoiled with Henderson who oozes confidence ...despite the odd clanger. Ramsdale is only half as good in ability.

 

[petcharlie]

It's a fact we play as a team . More than other sides as we can't afford the quality others have.. what we had last season held us together.
The spine of Henderson Oconnell and Mousset drove the team. Losing all 3 to injury or ambition has dropped our effectiveness by 30 per cent. The team has in being so good last season now exposed some players who were lifted by it being a good unit.
Both Norwood and Fleck have had their work load increased and shown to not be able to step up. Baldock and Stevens raids have fallen off by 70 per cent as the covers not there. We look better when Osborn is in as the grounds covered better.
The return of oconnell and a fit Mousset and some fresh blood in midfield will see a rise in our ability to compete again as we did . We got spoiled with Henderson who oozes confidence ...despite the odd clanger. Ramsdale is only half as good in ability.

Yes I agree Henderson was worth at least ten points for us if not more.We failed to sign a replacement for Oconnell and Fleck and Norword have lost it .To be fair Wilder did tell the board before the season started we needed a replacement for Oconnell .

 

[petcharlie]

We have to pay the going rate in wages to attract the quality needed .

 

[alcoblade]

Can I say both? Brewster as a perfect example... We have an abundance of strikers (albeit strikers that struggle to score) and instead of investing in the midfield we bring in another striker... Unproven one at that.

Understood mate. But I’d also say that tinkering with a midfield that was purring has its’ own risks- as Berge has proved.

Up front, we could barely hit a bulls’s ass with a banjo, however many strikers we already had to try.

 

[BanderSerge]

I was one of the In Tufty we Trust twats who's now feeling a little let down....

You?

You haven’t answered my question!

 

[ancientblade]

We have to pay the going rate in wages to attract the quality needed .

weve had to go for young promising players because we either couldnt or wouldnt pay average premier league salaries for players with premier league experience and its backfired im afraid lesson to be learned when we get back up

 

[Balham Blade]

weve had to go for young promising players because we either couldnt or wouldnt pay average premier league salaries for players with premier league experience and its backfired im afraid lesson to be learned when we get back up

Most of that reasoning is driven by the desire to develop a self-sustaining model where the promising young players we bring in are sold on for a profit covering all costs. I recall someone questioning why we signed Brewster for £18m over Welbeck on a free: the answer is that the expectation was probably that Brewster would be sold in 2-3 years' time for £30m+ thereby covering his purchase plus wages. Welbeck would have zero resale value so effectively would be a sunk cost.

What seems to have been forgotten is that you need a team strong enough to stay in the Premier League season by season.

 

[BanderSerge]

Yes I agree Henderson was worth at least ten points for us if not more.We failed to sign a replacement for Oconnell and Fleck and Norword have lost it .To be fair Wilder did tell the board before the season started we needed a replacement for Oconnell .

Big fan of Henderson, but off the top of my head, he saved us 2 points against Norwich home & away [Cantwell shot & Hanley header from a corner] A point against Bournemouth at home [Fraser shot]. He gave Chelsea their 1st goal away in a draw. He cost us 2 points at home to Liverpool. He got away with murder for the snodgrass goal at home to the scum from east London. Watford at home?

 

[blades14]

When he plays, all he does is stand off the players who running with the ball, constantly points other players towards the attacking man instead of him taking some responsibility and making a tackle.

 

[BushBlade]

Most of that reasoning is driven by the desire to develop a self-sustaining model where the promising young players we bring in are sold on for a profit covering all costs. I recall someone questioning why we signed Brewster for £18m over Welbeck on a free: the answer is that the expectation was probably that Brewster would be sold in 2-3 years' time for £30m+ thereby covering his purchase plus wages. Welbeck would have zero resale value so effectively would be a sunk cost.

What seems to have been forgotten is that you need a team strong enough to stay in the Premier League season by season.

Bang on. My only question is to what extent this was driven by CW and to what extent was it driven by the owner and his committee? In fairness, it probably seemed sensible at the end of last season.

 

[Balham Blade]

Bang on. My only question is to what extent this was driven by CW and to what extent was it driven by the owner and his committee? In fairness, it probably seemed sensible at the end of last season.

I'd guess it was driven by circumstance. The owners don't have the available cash reserves of most (if not all) of their peers so we can't afford to lose £5m a season on a single player.

 

[gordoncharles]

What seems to have been forgotten is that you need a team strong enough to stay in the Premier League season by season.

Yes, but the fallacy is believing that Danny Welbeck, say, would have done any better and somehow managed to keep us up in the way he didn't do for Watford last season.

I would also imagine his wages cost around £2-3m a year more than Brewster's, at least.

So you need a team strong enough to stay in the league, within what you can afford.

 

[CentralQuay]

Yes, but the fallacy is believing that Danny Welbeck, say, would have done any better and somehow managed to keep us up in the way he didn't do for Watford last season.

I would also imagine his wages cost around £2-3m a year more than Brewster's, at least.

So you need a team strong enough to stay in the league, within what you can afford.

I completely agree, Welbeck hasn't ever hit double figures in his career, and he's 30 years old.

Brewster is a signing I think will turn out well, Burke will have a career worse than Welbeck imo, guy doesn't score goals.

 

[essexblade73]

View attachment 103460

Fckin quarterback, get in the bin

 

[S40BLADE]

Fckin quarterback, get in the bin

Understand where your coming from but even top international elite pros use it now...

 

[Houston_Blade]

Big fan of Henderson, but off the top of my head, he saved us 2 points against Norwich home & away [Cantwell shot & Hanley header from a corner] A point against Bournemouth at home [Fraser shot]. He gave Chelsea their 1st goal away in a draw. He cost us 2 points at home to Liverpool. He got away with murder for the snodgrass goal at home to the scum from east London. Watford at home?

Sorry to be picky but we'd have only got 1 point for the draw against Liverpool.

 

[JJBlade]

the west brom game was the catylist for this awful season 3 sitters missed and we should have won that game 5-1 think we would have kicked on from there as for rian brewster he will score 20 plus in the championship next season especially if we bring 2 good midfielders in to supply the ammunition

McBurnie or Mousett and probably Brewster are capable of 20 plus if they get the ammunition.

That's the problem, we never buy anybody that provides the ammunition, even at our best last season we created next to nothing, it was a good season because we gave nothing away, not because of our scintillating attacking play.

We're like a formula 1 racing team run by Jeremy Clarkson, he'd think the solution to the problem is to blow the budget on more power at the expense of the steering, braking and suspension. The creative aspects that enables the power to be put down on the track.

If Aguerro, Cole, Shearer, Wright, Van Nistelrooy scored 25 goals in a season it's because they had 100 chances created for them.

Our strikers getting five or six goals is reflected by the 20 chances created for them, so it's difficult to say how good or bad they are.

 

[BanderSerge]

McBurnie or Mousett and probably Brewster are capable of 20 plus if they get the ammunition.

That's the problem, we never buy anybody that provides the ammunition, even at our best last season we created next to nothing, it was a good season because we gave nothing away, not because of our scintillating attacking play.

We're like a formula 1 racing team run by Jeremy Clarkson, he'd think the solution to the problem is to blow the budget on more power at the expense of the steering, braking and suspension. The creative aspects that enables the power to be put down on the track.

If Aguerro, Cole, Shearer, Wright, Van Nistelrooy scored 25 goals in a season it's because they had 100 chances created for them.

Our strikers getting five or six goals is reflected by the 20 chances created for them, so it's difficult to say how good or bad they are.

Premier League and championship is a different galaxy. If we play Mcgoldrick or Berge behind any of our current forwards they’ll rip that league a new arsehole.

 

[Working Class Hero]

McBurnie or Mousett and probably Brewster are capable of 20 plus if they get the ammunition.

That's the problem, we never buy anybody that provides the ammunition, even at our best last season we created next to nothing, it was a good season because we gave nothing away, not because of our scintillating attacking play.

That's true for the last three windows, but "never" is a stretch. For the three seasons before that, Billy Sharp scored bags full and we had probably the most creative midfielder I've ever seen at the Lane.