No one leaving, no one coming in?

[Carlton Blade]

Even more bonkers when you consider his contract situation...

We bid £3.5m (or whatever it was) for Swift, got knocked back, did nothing to try and influence the situation and then decided to sign some wing backs. Trotters Independent Trading style recruitment policy. How do you only have one target for midfield?

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I've been banging the athleticism drum for ages now. I wanted Doucoure in the summer over anyone else. He was obviously out of our range but we needed a facsimile of that

Me too. I jokingly made a point about getting Toni Minichello involved last year to focus our drive and physical performance! The point I was trying to make was that at the elite level, marginal gains make all the difference.

As much as I used to love seeing Billy, Baldock and others in Rajdhani in Dore on a Sat night having a curreh and a couple of beers, it did make me question how 'elite' we were/are... At the time I was smashed all over on these pages, but I go back to the point that one curry doesn't make any difference, but it's endemic of a wider cultural issue.

 

[Yogi]

But that again points to the poor recruitment. Who was Lunny's back up/challenger?

I agree even with everyone for and available we’re probably one light in midfield that player who can play AM but also RCM.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Me too. I jokingly made a point about getting Toni Minichello involved last year to focus our drive and physical performance! The point I was trying to make was that at the elite level, marginal gains make all the difference.

As much as I used to love seeing Billy, Baldock and others in Rajdhani in Dore on a Sat night having a curreh and a couple of beers, it did make me question how 'elite' we were/are... At the time I was smashed all over on these pages, but I go back to the point that one curry doesn't make any difference, but it's endemic of a wider cultural issue.

I used to work with Toni at the Job Centre!

I don't believe in momentum. You are either good or not. But I'm with you that the league is certainly better this season and our small, slow, weak team is unable to paper over the athleticism discrepancy with togetherness and organisation. Our standards have dropped markedly in those areas.

 

[Booker4]

You didn't need a crystal ball to know that JOC was injured and needed cover (and that Robinson was terrible). Or to know Ampadu, Bogle, Lowe, Brewster, Burke were gambles. Or that spending your full budget at the time on a keeper was a criminal use of resources. Or that we needed more goals. Or that we'd been the worst attacking team in the league since Xmas.

Brewster had played 22 games. Absolute insanity purchase. The opposite type of deal a club in control would do

It seems one thing we can be absolutely certain on is that Wilder wanted a replacement for JOC. Surely you can't be suggesting that Wilder thought it was ok to go with Robinson and Byran, because from what Wilder was saying it was obvious he wanted a replacement but wasn't able to for whatever reason; the obvious one is the lack of backing he needed to bring in someone.

As for Ramsdale, yes it seems over the top, but again in the years to come Ramsdale may well prove to be a great purchase. If Ampadu, Bogle, Brewster and Burke are gambles, andd yes I agree, then that tells you where are wage budget is!

It's not rocket science. If you have a budget for a shed, you can't expect a three bedroom house. And when I say that I'm referring to the wage budget allowed. So better to go for the best players we can get, which will inevitably cost more in transfer fees but are available in our wage struture. So you have to spend £10m upwards just to get potential, that's the transfer market, you can't blame Wilder in my view. Players will not join us on our wage struxture that have had premier league experience; they'd only be fringle players who were never good enough for the PL, or who were past it and would still want big money.

 

[Carlton Blade]

It seems one thing we can be absolutely certain on is that Wilder wanted a replacement for JOC. Surely you can't be suggesting that Wilder thought it was ok to go with Robinson and Byran, because from what Wilder was saying it was obvious he wanted a replacement but wasn't able to for whatever reason; the obvious one is the lack of backing he needed to bring in someone.

As for Ramsdale, yes it seems over the top, but again in the years to come Ramsdale may well prove to be a great purchase. If Ampadu, Bogle, Brewster and Burke are gambles, andd yes I agree, then that tells you where are wage budget is!

It's not rocket science. If you have a budget for a shed, you can't expect a three bedroom house. And when I say that I'm referring to the wage budget allowed. So better to go for the best players we can get, which will inevitably cost more in transfer fees but are available in our wage struture. So you have to spend £10m upwards just to get potential, that's the transfer market, you can't blame Wilder in my view. Players will not join us on our wage struxture that have had premier league experience; they'd only be fringle players who were never good enough for the PL, or who were past it and would still want big money.

I'm just a bit tired of "We looked at the 5 Championship clubs we have a phone number for, they didn't have anyone so we moved on to just doing the things we are 100% sure will fail" For the second season in a row we aren't even going to use all our loan spots but we are paying 5 keepers, Rodwell, Bryan, Jags etc etc

The recruitment has been woeful. That lies with Wilder

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

We bid £3.5m (or whatever it was) for Swift, got knocked back, did nothing to try and influence the situation and then decided to sign some wing backs. Trotters Independent Trading style recruitment policy. How do you only have one target for midfield?

With RND in the wings, Osborn in the squad, the signing of Lowe made me wonder what was going on. Especially as it became apparent during the 2nd half of last season that Norwood was a spent force, Lundstram wanted to leave and Berge wasn't the Champions League centre mid we'd been led to believe.

It isn't been wise after the event, but I genuinely thought we'd buy 2 or 3 midfielders last Summer...

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I used to work with Toni at the Job Centre!

I don't believe in momentum. You are either good or not. But I'm with you that the league is certainly better this season and our small, slow, weak team is unable to paper over the athleticism discrepancy with togetherness and organisation. Our standards have dropped markedly in those areas.

Small world. I've known Chel for 25 years - it was him who persuaded me to take up bobsleigh (long story for over a beer)... Top Bloke, but serious as a heart attack when it comes to performance. I was under the impression Tufty was equally as unequivocal when it came to performance and standards...

That's what worrying me, as we've slipped so far this season. I said on another thread, at least with Madine and Hogan you knew they'd be physical. I look at Brewster and McBurnie and just shake my head. They're just not 'Tufty type Players' and are so removed from the types of players he's brought in previous. Hanson, Clarke, Madine - I thought it was nailed on we'd buy at an Ings, Murray, Austin type player. Was secretly hoping Deeney would be tempted to join us this Summer...

 

[Carlton Blade]

With RND in the wings, Osborn in the squad, the signing of Lowe made me wonder what was going on. Especially as it became apparent during the 2nd half of last season that Norwood was a spent force, Lundstram wanted to leave and Berge wasn't the Champions League centre mid we'd been led to believe.

It isn't been wise after the event, but I genuinely thought we'd buy 2 or 3 midfielders last Summer...

Wilder in September on Lundstram

“There is no issue. I have spoken with John at length in pre-season and I have a fully-committed player who pulls a shirt on and wants to give his best for himself and his team-mates and football club,” said the Blades boss.

“Things change quickly and there’s obviously an offer on the table for John. I think John just wants to get on and play his football and see what happens and I am OK with that.

“He did great for us last year and he has got to play well to get in the team this year. There is no down side in him not leaving everything out there when he plays. We will just see how the situation develops and move forward.

“We haven’t had any enquiries or offers for John. I would be the first to tell him and his agent if we had. The first phone call would be to John and then our board and they would ask me what I think of it. But nothing has happened and there is nothing to report back on and John is out there training and trying to get in the team for Monday.”

That's such a naïve view to take. Surely we had to be looking at him as a squad player and bring in, at the very least a player with a view to taking that position

 

[Carlton Blade]

Small world. I've known Chel for 25 years - it was him who persuaded me to take up bobsleigh (long story for over a beer)... Top Bloke, but serious as a heart attack when it comes to performance. I was under the impression Tufty was equally as unequivocal when it came to performance and standards...

That's what worrying me, as we've slipped so far this season. I said on another thread, at least with Madine and Hogan you knew they'd be physical. I look at Brewster and McBurnie and just shake my head. They're just not 'Tufty type Players' and are so removed from the types of players he's brought in previous. Hanson, Clarke, Madine - I thought it was nailed on we'd buy at an Ings, Murray, Austin type player. Was secretly hoping Deeney would be tempted to join us this Summer...

I've seen him on the telly a few times and his persona on there is certainly different from when he worked at the Jobcentre! I think he was married to the Bobsledder who he'd converted from a hurdler at the time (I can't quite remember her name) but I don't think they are together anymore. Lewis Samuel who used to be the 400m runner was working there as well.

My main gripe with recruitment is we've tried to take players who did something well at their previous club and "adapt" it to fit our style rather than adapting our style to fit them. McBurnie played very well wide, scored penalty box goals and linked well - target man. Robinson was a wide forward, Centre Forward. Freeman was an AM - Centre Midfielder etc etc

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I've seen him on the telly a few times and his persona on there is certainly different from when he worked at the Jobcentre! I think he was married to the Bobsledder who he'd converted from a hurdler at the time (I can't quite remember her name) but I don't think they are together anymore. Lewis Samuel who used to be the 400m runner was working there as well.

My main gripe with recruitment is we've tried to take players who did something well at their previous club and "adapt" it to fit our style rather than adapting our style to fit them. McBurnie played very well wide, scored penalty box goals and linked well - target man. Robinson was a wide forward, Centre Forward. Freeman was an AM - Centre Midfielder etc etc

Absolutely. I remember a few years back, Arsene Wenger explaining that he buys players from Africa because their attitude is that they have a c10 year career and want to maximise that. They work hard to win trophies and get a move to Barcelona/Real Madrid etc - and he's fine with that. By comparison the British players just want to get a fast car and strut round...

That stuck with me, and Wilder seemed to embrace that same mentality. Buy players with a point to prove and see their futures at bigger clubs. Henderson embodied that! Sadly it seems to be the latter and we have a team of orange Lamborghini drivers...

*I know Lewis too. Feck that guy looks the same age today as the day I first me him in 1995!

** Yep Chel's ex wife Nicola was World Bobsleigh Champion... But by that time he was coaching Jess Ennis...

 

[Carlton Blade]

Absolutely. I remember a few years back, Arsene Wenger explaining that he buys players from Africa because their attitude is that they have a c10 year career and want to maximise that. They work hard to win trophies and get a move to Barcelona/Real Madrid etc - and he's fine with that. By comparison the British players just want to get a fast car and strut round...

That stuck with me, and Wilder seemed to embrace that same mentality. Buy players with a point to prove and see their futures at bigger clubs. Henderson embodied that! Sadly it seems to be the latter and we have a team of orange Lamborghini drivers...

*I know Lewis too. Feck that guy looks the same age today as the day I first me him in 1995!

** Yep Chel's ex wife Nicola was World Bobsleigh Champion... But by that time he was coaching Jess Ennis...

I don't believe we have a transfer strategy anymore. Except Wilder insists on 100% control over everything and that limits the pool of players to a number less than a lot of Championship clubs.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I don't believe we have a transfer strategy anymore. Except Wilder insists on 100% control over everything and that limits the pool of players to a number less than a lot of Championship clubs.

Absolutely. Reminds me of when you first play a football mgt game and you get promoted to the PL and you suddenly get giddy and start throwing money around.

After seeing McBurnie, Freeman, Robinson struggle to adjust from Championship to PL, to go back and spend £20m on Brewster was frankly ludicrous... And like I say we didn't learn from Wilson/Woodburn that these Top 6 clubs do have some shite in their academies...

 

[Carlton Blade]

Absolutely. Reminds me of when you first play a football mgt game and you get promoted to the PL and you suddenly get giddy and start throwing money around.

After seeing McBurnie, Freeman, Robinson struggle to adjust from Championship to PL, to go back and spend £20m on Brewster was frankly ludicrous... And like I say we didn't learn from Wilson/Woodburn that these Top 6 clubs do have some shite in their academies...

Brewster may well be a good player in time. But we paid £20m on the evidence of about 1700 minutes of adult league football. I don't want to hear any more nonsense about "protecting the club" or "not wanting to waste the owners money" when gambling like that is going on

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Brewster may well be a good player in time. But we paid £20m on the evidence of about 1700 minutes of adult league football. I don't want to hear any more nonsense about "protecting the club" or "not wanting to waste the owners money" when gambling like that is going on

You could even have seen how Solanke did when he joined Bournemouth if you wanted an even more pertinent example.

The interested angle I'd throw out in there would be: how would Wilder be reacting now if a Director of Football had spent £40m+ on McBurnie and Brewster, and had 3 decent LBs (4 including RND) in the squad but no tried and tested CDM or cover for RCM???

 

[Carlton Blade]

You could even have seen how Solanke did when he joined Bournemouth if you wanted an even more pertinent example.

The interested angle I'd throw out in there would be: how would Wilder be reacting now if a Director of Football had spent £40m+ on McBurnie and Brewster, and had 3 decent LBs (4 including RND) in the squad but no tried and tested CDM or cover for RCM???

He'd be kicking off. And the fans would be too.

The only player of that age, since Owen who was a true outlier, to really kick on instantly at that level at a non top 2 team is Defoe. Who scored 18 in his first 78 appearances. To expect Brewster to provide value was insanity

 

[Le Cynique]

You didn't need a crystal ball to know that JOC was injured and needed cover (and that Robinson was terrible). Or to know Ampadu, Bogle, Lowe, Brewster, Burke were gambles. Or that spending your full budget at the time on a keeper was a criminal use of resources. Or that we needed more goals. Or that we'd been the worst attacking team in the league since Xmas.

Brewster had played 22 games. Absolute insanity purchase. The opposite type of deal a club in control would do

Two of the five members of the transfer committee voted against signing Bogle and Lowe, as I recall. Seems they might have been correct to do so.

 

[Razor_Blade]

Maybe not, but the PL has evolved and the athleticism required has also evolved - you could argue lockdown/Covid has raised the standards of athleticism. No nightclubs, no golf, no distractions.

From the outside looking in, it appears as the rest of the PL have gotten bigger, faster, stronger, fitter - our lads simply have got worse.

They haven't got worse, they just haven't got a higher level of fitness to give them an edge any more. It's that old saying "Hardwork beats talant, when talant doesn't work hard"

 

[Espania blade]

If we're to offer a balanced appraisal of Norwood, he's looked half decent in games where we've controlled possession, the opposition have had a weak midfield, the opposition have been shite, and it's his only game of the week.

It's just been when any of these criteria haven't been met, he's looked like a competition winner playing in a PL game...

Sport is all about levels. Next season, I'd imagine he'll be once again be one of our better performers.

If you take a balanced view on Norwood - I can accept a bad day - what i can't accept is a bad attitude and that is what he showed yesterday, he should get his P45 this morning - not for his performance but for his attitude!

 

[Carlton Blade]

Two of the five members of the transfer committee voted against signing Bogle and Lowe, as I recall. Seems they might have been correct to do so.

Bogle alone may end up being a decent signing. Especially if Baldock moves on in the summer. But as with Ramsdale he represents a missed opportunity to strengthen in other areas. I'm more annoyed with that than the actual players

 

[LJBlade]

Bogle alone may end up being a decent signing. Especially if Baldock moves on in the summer. But as with Ramsdale he represents a missed opportunity to strengthen in other areas. I'm more annoyed with that than the actual players

We needed a right back and Bogle has been one of the better performers since he came into the team. Who would you have played there when Baldock got injured?

 

[Carlton Blade]

We needed a right back and Bogle has been one of the better performers since he came into the team. Who would you have played there when Baldock got injured?

Do you think signing Bogle was a better use of resources than spending that money in other areas? I don't. An injury to a RWB does not remove the need for an athletic midfielder to at least challenge for the DCM or RCM spot.

 

[LJBlade]

Do you think signing Bogle was a better use of resources than spending that money in other areas? I don't. An injury to a RWB does not remove the need for an athletic midfielder to at least challenge for the DCM or RCM spot.

I’m not saying it was a better use of resources but it was necessary and so far the signing hasn’t been a bad one. Who would you have played at RWB these last few games?

From what I recall, we tried to bring in another CM as well anyway.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Two of the five members of the transfer committee voted against signing Bogle and Lowe, as I recall. Seems they might have been correct to do so.

I think Bogle has been a brilliant signing. If nothing else, he's made Baldock improve in the same way signing Ricky Holmes improved Duffy!

It's the Ramsdale and Brewster signings for me, which have been wastes.

We already have two young strikers trying to find their feet in McBurnie and Mousset. Why buy a 3rd? And you're not telling me we couldn't have found a better GK for £18m??

But the Berge signing is showing to be a bit perplexing. We know why we needed to improve on Norwood, and at face value he does look like the archetypal PL centre mid. However, what scouting/testing did we do? Most elite sports have minimal performance levels and I'm struggling to see how Berge passed any of those based around speed, agility, fitness. He looks talented but not athletic enough for the PL.

So that's c£60m we've spunked...

 

[Carlton Blade]

I’m not saying it was a better use of resources but it was necessary and so far the signing hasn’t been a bad one. Who would you have played at RWB these last few games?

From what I recall, we tried to bring in another CM as well anyway.

We made one derisory bid for one player and gave up. My only point was that it was poor use of resources??

One game with a sub par option at RWB (Bash, Lunny, Burke) is certainly preferable to a season of a sub par midfield.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Do you think signing Bogle was a better use of resources than spending that money in other areas? I don't. An injury to a RWB does not remove the need for an athletic midfielder to at least challenge for the DCM or RCM spot.

Bogle/RWB was in the 'Desirable' column.

Centre mid depth and athleticism should have been the first three bullet points under the 'Essential column

 

[LJBlade]

We made one derisory bid for one player and gave up. My only point was that it was poor use of resources??

One game with a sub par option at RWB (Bash, Lunny, Burke) is certainly preferable to a season of a sub par midfield.

With all respect, you’ve no idea what we bid or how many times.

I disagree that it was a poor use of resources, we needed a player in that position. If we had signed a CM instead you could quite easily be saying the same thing about not signing a replacement/back-up for Baldock.

Baldock has been out injured for more than one game. He could have been out for the season. Who would you have played then?

 

[Carlton Blade]

With all respect, you’ve no idea what we bid or how many times.

I disagree that it was a poor use of resources, we needed a player in that position. If we had signed a CM instead you could quite easily be saying the same thing about not signing a replacement/back-up for Baldock.

Baldock has been out injured for more than one game. He could have been out for the season. Who would you have played then?

I'd have played one of the 3 players I listed, with all respect

II get the feeling that anything that's even a hint of disagreement with what Wilder did wouldnt find much favour with you.

IF you think multiple wingback was more important than any midfielders then we fundamentally disagree with what makes a football team work

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I'd have played one of the 3 players I listed, with all respect

II get the feeling that anything that's even a hint of disagreement with what Wilder did wouldnt find much favour with you.

IF you think multiple wingback was more important than any midfielders then we fundamentally disagree with what makes a football team work

Or we keep Freeman around a bit longer? I'm sure another year of PL wages, and he'd have stayed!

It's the Brewster £20m which has been spunked away for me... He doesn't even get in our strongest XI so why we spent that kind of money on a reserve when we have no midfield is what grinds my gears!!

 

[finlaytheblade]

As I have said on previous threads, CW was expecting us (and probably most of our fanbase) that we would consolidate this season in the Premier league finishing comfortably mid table and his purchases in the last windows were players for the future ie 21/22 season and beyond. We will get return on our money spent, starting from next season. I'm sure in hindsight he would have done things differently had he known that the players either through injury or playing sub standard were going to let him down. Who'd be a manager heh?

We did have a cameo after lockdown last summer we were dire in most matches that maybe was a wake up call..
But in my opinion I think your right ,some players have just dropped there standards alarmingly.