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LJBlade said:
What has this season got to do with next? Norwich were very poor last season, look at what they’re doing now. And that isn’t ‘data’ by the way so it’s a bit rich you asking others to provide data to support their opinion.

I haven’t forgotten about how competitive it is. I remember seeing most of our current squad competing at the very top.

Lucky to stay in the Championship? I get it now, you’re one of those types.
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Are you seriously asking that? You don’t think that momentum will come into play? Also Norwich were better than we are. We’re absolutely abject, if you haven’t noticed.

The squad players who competed were two years younger than they will be next time around. That will have an effect.

Not sure what you mean by ‘one of those types’. I’m trying to be realistic and other than blind Bladey-Blade optimism I can’t see any signs at all that we’ll dominate next season in the second tier.
 

Le Cynique said:
Are you seriously asking that? You don’t think that momentum will come into play? Also Norwich were better than we are. We’re absolutely abject, if you haven’t noticed.

The squad players who competed were two years younger than they will be next time around. That will have an effect.

Not sure what you mean by ‘one of those types’. I’m trying to be realistic and other than blind Bladey-Blade optimism I can’t see any signs at all that we’ll dominate next season in the second tier.
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So Bournemouth, Watford and Norwich all had momentum did they?

Norwich may have been better than us but there would be very little in it. This is still largely the same squad that beat Norwich twice last season.

Yep, those who achieved promotion last time will be older. Good job we’ve brought in quite a few young players who have already done it at that level as well then isn’t it.

My point was this. You completely dismiss anyone who has the opinion that we’ll do OK next season, demanding that they support their argument with ‘data’. I’ve said that none of us know what will happen next season but I’ve given you a few reasons why I think we’ll be OK. You’ve not been able to support your argument either and your only reasoning is that we’re currently bottom of the league.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Again, all valid points which are impossible to disagree with.

However, the alternative is to do nothing which just seems suicidal, even given our current predicament. My fear is that next Summer we're so threadbare in midfield it means we panic buy again - and we've seen what happens when Tufty panic buys!

I suppose you could make a case for a Regan Slater to fill that void, but I'm not sure he's even Championship standard.
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I don’t think you can commit suicide when you’re already dead.
 
LJBlade said:
So Bournemouth, Watford and Norwich all had momentum did they?

Norwich may have been better than us but there would be very little in it. This is still largely the same squad that beat Norwich twice last season.

Yep, those who achieved promotion last time will be older. Good job we’ve brought in quite a few young players who have already done it at that level as well then isn’t it.

My point was this. You completely dismiss anyone who has the opinion that we’ll do OK next season, demanding that they support their argument with ‘data’. I’ve said that none of us know what will happen next season but I’ve given you a few reasons why I think we’ll be OK. You’ve not been able to support your argument either and your only reasoning is that we’re currently bottom of the league.
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No I don’t. I’ve yet to see someone provide a meaningful argument other than ‘we’ve done it before’ and ‘other teams that went down are doing OK’.

My only reasoning is that we’re currently bottom of the league? No: my reasoning is:

We can’t score.
We can’t keep a clean sheet.
We look tactically inept and easy to play against.
We don’t have a plan B.
We have players who don’t look interested in playing.
We have players who look like their best days are behind them, and others who look like they might never reach their potential.
We’ve had the worst start to a season by any team ever in the Premier League.
We have a management team who seemingly refuse to admit the situation we’re in.
We have owners who - quite rightly based on previous purchases - are reticent to invest in quality additions to the squad.

Perhaps that spells it out a bit better. All those reasons are why we’re bottom of the league, and why I think it will be less of a foregone conclusion than some seem to think that we'll bounce straight back next season.
 
Le Cynique said:
No I don’t. I’ve yet to see someone provide a meaningful argument other than ‘we’ve done it before’ and ‘other teams that went down are doing OK’.

My only reasoning is that we’re currently bottom of the league? No: my reasoning is:

We can’t score.
We can’t keep a clean sheet.
We look tactically inept and easy to play against.
We don’t have a plan B.
We have players who don’t look interested in playing.
We have players who look like their best days are behind them, and others who look like they might never reach their potential.
We’ve had the worst start to a season by any team ever in the Premier League.
We have a management team who seemingly refuse to admit the situation we’re in.
We have owners who - quite rightly based on previous purchases - are reticent to invest in quality additions to the squad.

Perhaps that spells it out a bit better. All those reasons are why we’re bottom of the league, and why I think it will be less of a foregone conclusion than some seem to think that we'll bounce straight back next season.
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But that’s this season. We could all of those things last season.

You ask for a meaningful argument but offer exactly the same in support of your own opinion.
 
LJBlade said:
What has this season got to do with next? Norwich were very poor last season, look at what they’re doing now. And that isn’t ‘data’ by the way so it’s a bit rich you asking others to provide data to support their opinion.

I haven’t forgotten about how competitive it is. I remember seeing most of our current squad competing at the very top.

Lucky to stay in the Championship? I get it now, you’re one of those types.
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There is a monumental difference between Norwich last season and us this season.
 
HydeParkBlade said:
I disagree, the last few games of last season definitely had an impact.
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Norwich finished last season losing 11 games in a row. In fact in their last 16 games they got 5 points. Fairly similar to us so far this season. That doesn’t appear to have done them any harm and it certainly disproves the notion they had any sort of momentum.

Being good or bad in any given season doesn’t mean that a team will be good or bad in the following season. If that was the case no team would ever improve.
 
Anyone who thinks allowing this team to limp to relegation as the worst PL team of all time is anything like preparation for a promotion push next season is utterly deluded.

Have blind faith by all means but don't use it as logic.
 
LJBlade said:
Norwich finished last season losing 11 games in a row. In fact in their last 16 games they got 5 points. Fairly similar to us so far this season. That doesn’t appear to have done them any harm and it certainly disproves the notion they had any sort of momentum.

Being good or bad in any given season doesn’t mean that a team will be good or bad in the following season. If that was the case no team would ever improve.
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"Being good or bad in any given season doesn't mean that a team will be good or bad in the following season"... Yes, I agree, you can't say with certainty. I don't think anyone is claiming that though, I'm saying there's a high likelihood that the momentum will carry over. You can't be certain one way or another, but that's just a needlessly pedantic thing to say!
 
HydeParkBlade said:
"Being good or bad in any given season doesn't mean that a team will be good or bad in the following season"... Yes, I agree, you can't say with certainty. I don't think anyone is claiming that though, I'm saying there's a high likelihood that the momentum will carry over. You can't be certain one way or another, but that's just a needlessly pedantic thing to say!
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And that’s fine. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I’m saying that there are just as many reasons, if not more, to believe that we’ll be OK next season. History has shown that ‘momentum’ between seasons doesn’t play a big part.

I’m not arguing with those who think we’ll struggle. I’m arguing with those who are happy to dismiss those who feel we’ll be OK and demand that they prove their argument whilst offering no proof themselves.
 
LJBlade said:
And that’s fine. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I’m saying that there are just as many reasons, if not more, to believe that we’ll be OK next season. History has shown that ‘momentum’ between seasons doesn’t play a big part.

I’m not arguing with those who think we’ll struggle. I’m arguing with those who are happy to dismiss those who feel we’ll be OK and demand that they prove their argument whilst offering no proof themselves.
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Surely our own history, the very famous case of us dropping from division 1 to 4, says otherwise?
 

LJBlade said:
How long ago was that? That’s scraping the barrel of arguments just a little bit.
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You didn't specify a time frame of applicable evidence! It was just one example that instantly came to mind. I'm sure I can find just as much evidence to support my argument as you can for yours.
 
HydeParkBlade said:
You didn't specify a time frame of applicable evidence! It was just one example that instantly came to mind. I'm sure I can find just as much evidence to support my argument as you can for yours.
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One example out of many. It’s also irrelevant to this team or next season’s.

You can try if you like but as I’ve said, if a team’s performance in any given season was greatly effected by how they did the season before you’d never see any improvements. Teams would be constantly getting relegated and teams would be constantly getting promoted. Of course there are occasions when teams do get promoted/relegated two seasons in a row but that’s because of the quality of the team they have, not because of how they did the season before.

As I’ve said, there’s no guarantees but we’ve got players that have done it before in the Championship, even the ones who weren’t with us when we were there last.
 
We are probably the least attractive proposition in the entire football league. We're stuck with what we've got and they chucked the towel in long ago.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Well Norwood turned up with 2 fresh razor blades, 3 bottles of valium and a length of rope today...

Jeezers, that was one of the worst midfield performances I've seen at PL level...
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He got punished for almost every mistake today Unfortunately he looks a well short and regularly exposed at Prem level, especially without a big enforcer next to him in central midfield.

Yes, he had a poor game today and probably should have been pulled much earlier than he was, but he isn't the only issue CW has. Unfortunately the squad looks woefully short in a number of areas.
 
Mouth of the South said:
He got punished for almost every mistake today Unfortunately he looks a well short and regularly exposed at Prem level, especially without a big enforcer next to him in central midfield.

Yes, he had a poor game today and probably should have been pulled much earlier than he was, but he isn't the only issue CW has. Unfortunately the squad looks woefully short in a number of areas.
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Little?

We're now seeing why 3 teams ditched him after they got promoted!!

The sad thing is, we don't have anyone else to play there...

We've got x2 decent RWBs and half a dozen average strikers but no CDMs...
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Little?

We're now seeing why 3 teams ditched him after they got promoted!!

The sad thing is, we don't have anyone else to play there...

We've got x2 decent RWBs and half a dozen average strikers but no CDMs...
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Haha - I was already editing my comment having reflected on it :)

TBH - I would play Lundstram centrally - he's itching to do so. I think he's a better option than Ampadu there
 
Post match on Sky and SUFC, he seemed to say the team is what it is, wait for returns from injury, that's it.
Unless I'm hearing it wrong?
 
We are going down so what’s the point in wasting money. Sell or release Norwood and make Berge the main CM so at least we can have chance to have him help us mount a promotion challenge next season.
 
The difficulty is, no matter what sound bites managers and clubs say, nobody does business early in the window. Sure there'll be odd examples, but generally by exception

After our next few games it's likely we are even further from the pack and pretty much dead and buried. We could be 15+ points fron safety, joining a relegation battle is one thing but joining a team who's only aim is not to be the worst team in history is another.

Particularly talking about loans, which player would opt in for that? 5 months of misery? Fuck that.

Assuming everyone at the club knows we are dead and buried, any money spent now (especially loans) is taking away funds for next season. This means we are likely looking at cheaper options.

The great escape isn't on. I still think we need to try something to stop the rot, but anything has to be with next season in mind. Loan to buy or permanent only.
 
Mouth of the South said:
He got punished for almost every mistake today Unfortunately he looks a well short and regularly exposed at Prem level, especially without a big enforcer next to him in central midfield.

Yes, he had a poor game today and probably should have been pulled much earlier than he was, but he isn't the only issue CW has. Unfortunately the squad looks woefully short in a number of areas.
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After the Norwich game last season I stayed around and got photos with a few of the team, because it was getting increasingly evident that lockdown was approaching, and I wanted some pics from such a good season.

First thing that struck me is how small/short/slight a lot of them are. I'm built like a racing snake but I didn't feel like it when I was stood next to Ozzie, Lunny or Norwood (all surprisingly slight for midfielders - Ozzie would make a fantastic jockey and Norwood looks like he's got a desk job) and Fleck's that wee that he looks like one of the Krankies up close.

I think it's why Besic was so important in the early stages of last season, only midfielder who had a bit of power about him.

I'd rather see Billy at RCM than Lunny, at least he's built like a brick shithouse at the moment, and he'd definitely fight for it. Not suggesting that as a serious option by the way, before anyone jumps down mi throat!
 

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