Article from The Independent

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drblade

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Apologies if posted elsewhere. Not sure who these "lower league figures" are that predicted out current plight ...

Not a very positive article.


UTB
 



I’d be interested to read a serious analysis of what has gone wrong this season and I don’t demand that journalists kiss Wilder’s or the club’s arse, but this reads like a shoddy hit piece on our manager. This business with “unnamed lower league sources” is bollocks—you’re talking about the football, not matters of national security, so have the balls to put your name to it.
 
Funny how we never heard from these ‘sources‘ at the time these claims are supposed to have been made...

...and “it didn’t tally with their experience?? What, performing wonders at every club he’s managed?

That experience?

I think the writer is making up complete bollox.
 
It ends positively I s'pose?? And in terms of us overachieving last season, aye that's fair enough. But in as goes giving zero credit, suggesting it was all a fluke, and a few petty little digs (all as said above from unnamed sources) it comes across as a bit of a hatchet job.

Miguel Delaney has constant fallouts on Twitter with other journalists...I think he likes being a smart arse just for the sake of it.
 
Scathing in parts but have to agree with a few of the points brought up. Ends on a pretty positive note also. As inoffensive as any modern sports "journalism".
 
Funny how we never heard from these ‘sources‘ at the time these claims are supposed to have been made...

...and “it didn’t tally with their experience?? What, performing wonders at every club he’s managed?

That experience?

I think the writer is making up complete bollox.
to be honest i do remember a pundit saying that we would run out of steam and said that it is unsustainable way of playing football around a year ago... of course i cant remember who said it now but i have a feeling it was someone like Robbie Earl, who often presents the footy on streams
 
“A freak run fired by an admittedly good team atmosphere”

A freak run that included winning League One in his first season with 100 points? A freak run that included swiftly getting promoted from the Championship playing some of the best football in the division?

Unsurprisingly, it’s like Miguel Delaney wasn’t aware of anything that happened before our first season back in the top flight.
 
Not so much a hatchet job IMHO, more the type of journalism I don't like where, rightly or wrongly, you feel these unnamed sources are made up to add credibility.

There's one or two bits that may suggest someone has said something at some point.

I've seen worse and more unfair articles though.

It does feel like we've been found out a bit. There were signs last season that teams were countering our style and it's definitely been evident this. Losing JOC hasn't helped in that regard too.

Plenty of our supporters have also been bemoaning our unwillingness to change strategy or formation too.

I wouldn't be surprised if the journo has had one conversation with a former player of Wilder's or something that wasn't exactly positive.

I remember hearing some bollocks that had apparently come from Lavery's mouth after we had been back in the Championship a season.
 
There were certainly a few pundits and columnists around, this time last year, who predicted that we were heading for difficulties because of our lack of firepower. I recall Rod Liddle in the Times tipping us (and Palace) as outside bets for relegation last season, despite us sitting in the top 8 at the time, on the basis that teams that can't score, eventually drop.

Of course, the cretin Liddle is revelling in belatedly being justified - just this weekend he mentioned (in an article about WBA) that he predicted that United were "nailed on" for relegation before the season started.

And Liddle isn't the only one. I don't know who this hack is in the Independent, but he is obviously amongst a number, that were made to look silly last season, who are now taking the chance to claim that this was obviously going to happen all along.

This article smacks of an opportunist taking the chance to knock down last year's 'bright new thing', under a flimsy veneer of unnamed, and possibly fictitious, sources.

That being said, the reference to "organisational shape over coaching or development work" in training, has a certain ring of truth to it.

The glorified training ground, non-pressurised matches post-lockdown have ruthlessly exposed United's shortcomings in individual technique, compared to all of the other teams. The overbearing emphasis on "the system" - even in the gaffer's interviews - is glaring, and it is difficult to believe, on the evidence of our clueless work in the final third, that we are doing anywhere near enough work with the ball or on shooting.

Perhaps, therefore, some of the 'lower league sources' who are taking the opportunity to put the boot in, include the various scorned and discarded 'creative' players, that Chris has consistently found it difficult to shoe-horn into 'the system'.

We certainly know of one 'number 10' plying his trade lower down who isn't shy of voicing his opinions.
 
The problem with 'sources' and it doesn't matter if they are unnamed or not, is they are like 'expert witnesses' during a court case, you can always find one to support your argument.
 
I like Miguel Delaney and what he has to say, but that article sounds like someone settling scores and having a moan. I’d be interested if it’s the same source for all of it or multiple, as it reads as if it’s a single disconcerting voice.
Obviously if it’s entirely accurate and true it would be a concern, but at risk of continually making the same point, we’ve grown massively in the last 4 years, if Wilder also needs to further develop, learn and improve to meet our new level then that’s only to be expected. We’re well ahead of any realistic schedule and due to the level we’re now at, lessons will be hard learnt.
 



Read like a fairly well written article to me.
I’ve no idea if the training is as basic as is suggested but he’s right that things have been fragile for us in the prem. last year we won by the odd goal this year we are losing by the off goal. It’s fine margins.

Goal scoring is obviously the main issue which is why strikers cost so much money. That and losing JOC and Hendo. Still time to fight to beat Derby’s record and then who knows how many points we can get.
utb
 
“Some sources point to the “basic” nature of Wilder’s training. Most Tuesdays involve a 5km run and the majority of pure football training is about organisational shape over any kind of coaching or developmental work.”

But what about the other days of the week?! Really does smack of poor journalism.

The point about coaching/developmental work is more interesting. Many of the players have improved under Chris but is that because of team spirit and success or individual technical improvement?
 
Apologies if posted elsewhere. Not sure who these "lower league figures" are that predicted out current plight ...

Not a very positive article.


UTB
“Lower league figures” are bound to be Oxford-related who still seem to have a chip on their shoulder about Wilder. Wonder if they’re still glad they got Appleton instead.
 
There were certainly a few pundits and columnists around, this time last year, who predicted that we were heading for difficulties because of our lack of firepower. I recall Rod Liddle in the Times tipping us (and Palace) as outside bets for relegation last season, despite us sitting in the top 8 at the time, on the basis that teams that can't score, eventually drop.

Of course, the cretin Liddle is revelling in belatedly being justified - just this weekend he mentioned (in an article about WBA) that he predicted that United were "nailed on" for relegation before the season started.

And Liddle isn't the only one. I don't know who this hack is in the Independent, but he is obviously amongst a number, that were made to look silly last season, who are now taking the chance to claim that this was obviously going to happen all along.

This article smacks of an opportunist taking the chance to knock down last year's 'bright new thing', under a flimsy veneer of unnamed, and possibly fictitious, sources.

That being said, the reference to "organisational shape over coaching or development work" in training, has a certain ring of truth to it.

The glorified training ground, non-pressurised matches post-lockdown have ruthlessly exposed United's shortcomings in individual technique, compared to all of the other teams. The overbearing emphasis on "the system" - even in the gaffer's interviews - is glaring, and it is difficult to believe, on the evidence of our clueless work in the final third, that we are doing anywhere near enough work with the ball or on shooting.

Perhaps, therefore, some of the 'lower league sources' who are taking the opportunity to put the boot in, include the various scorned and discarded 'creative' players, that Chris has consistently found it difficult to shoe-horn into 'the system'.

We certainly know of one 'number 10' plying his trade lower down who isn't shy of voicing his opinions.

Really interesting viewpoint and not really one that I'd considered, namely that our obsession with training players for "the system" would be to the detriment of the development of individual technique. I've no idea whether it's true but it's a decent theory. I can certainly recall players - and specifically George Baldock - referring to coaching on developing ball skills & tricks in the past, which implies it's not just flat-out ignored, but maybe it is de-emphasised.

I still think it's a bullshit article. Miguel Delaney's lower league sources are likely to be few and far between as he has never covered anything beyond the elite European leagues. And that "freak run" comment really grates, because you don't just have four great years like that as a "freak run".
 
i remember when the football adage was to survive you needed a strong spine down the middle
I suppose you could argue with losing Henderson OConnell and to a large extent Mousset weve had our spine surgically removed
Wilders just getting some sort of function back to our side
The road ahead is hard but the oooh look a team with 2 points after 14 games , somethings not right journalistic eulogies
should name names .
Garth Crooks arsehole that he is gave his honest assessment before seeing us at all beginning of last season
had he done it this september hed look knowledgeable
 
Obviously it’s not been going well - and there must be room for improvement or at least getting players playing to the level we know they can.

but I’m sure we’ve had articles in the past about wilder borrowing bits of pochitinos and Eddie howes training methods and sessions. So that doesn’t strike me as something that rings true that we just have to run.

in addition the staff have developed many many players - there’s players who’ve played in league one looking decent in the PL.
 
A few cliched digs, and I am not sure how true the comments about our training regime are, but generally it's not to far off the mark. He also points out that we have been very much in most games, and defeats have largely been fairly narrow. Seems to suggest that our results will improve, which I agree with
 
Four big things knackered us.

1. The injury to O’Connell with the loss of form of Stevens and Fleck devastated the entire left side of the team.

2. The truncated off season. We were an high energy side running on fumes come the end of last season and the players needed the full two month break.. they got a fortnight before they were back in training,

3. The lack of fans in, it’s undoubtedly effected us more than any other team, the fans and this side have come through from League one together and have been badly missed,

4. The lack of financial clout to pay the wages for players who can turn games with a bit of individual magic.
 
That's a really, really weird article full of unnamed sources basically making out like Wilder is a dinosaur who got lucky. Almost like the writer, or someone feeding the writer, has a huge grudge.

He got lucky at a lot of clubs over the last 20 years then.

Which West Ham fan wrote this? Was it you HammerInPeace? 😂
 
Doesn't tell us anything we don't already know.

1. Over achieving in the first season. Tick.
2. Missing two key players. Tick.
3. Second season syndrome. Tick.
4. Oppositions on top of 5-3-2 and overlapping wingbacks. Tick.
5. Lost games by one goal. Tick.

What I'd like to know is where has he gained his Shirecliffe inside information on training (as if he gives a shit, or knows and has studied the effectiveness of CWAKs training) and possesses the footballing nous to see it is to blame for our lack of capability in key areas of the pitch. Note, he never mentions anything outside of Jack and Deanos absence, which isn't entirely to blame for our demise (although in fairness, it could be said it has a lot to do with it) He doesn't mention how broken our midfield is, the waste of funds on players we don't play, the Lundstram issue, Wilder's reluctance to switch tactically and our dismally low goals scored record.

It's just typical column filling bollocks because his Sports Editor has fired a 'I need two hundred on the relegation teams to stick in this gap between Sir Marcus Rashford and Klopp's teeth. Go!'

Wankers

pommpey
 
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It's not unreasonable to suggest that Chris Wilder isn't the greatest technical football coach around but that's why he's got the rest of the coaching team around him. Matt Prestridge for sport science (quite how he's not been poached is beyond me), Alan Knill for tactics, Darren Ward for goalkeeping, Rhys Carr for individual development plus the fitness coaches and others not named anywhere. Wilder's main remit is knitting it all together.

It's also not unfair to point out that his management career was solid but unspectacular until he joined forces with Alan Knill.
 

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