Sander Berge

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JackSUFC said:
So a good player who will perform well in a team that don’t hoof it over his head most the game?

You’re spot on.
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Yep, while we’re not at Blackwell levels of hoof we play a very confused style that just doesn’t work. Sander reminds me of Jags in midfield before he left to join Everton, far too good to be getting a stiff neck.
 
INTERUNITED said:
This lad obviously has more talent than the other players in the squad, but I think we are a worse team with him in it. Sadly he just doesn't fit our style, and no matter where we try and shoehorn him in the side it just doesn't quite work. I'd consider selling him in January, and reinvest the funds on a creative midfielder (assuming we can get our money back for him). In my opinion, he's a player who'd thrive in France or Spain where you get more time on the ball, not sure the Premier league suits him. I'm sure I'll get slated for this, but just my opinion.
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It's all gone slightly off beam since the original post but I agree.

When he first came he looked a headless chicken as he had no bloody idea how to acclimatise to a very well versed system. But you could still see he oozed class.

Post lockdown he looks great... can't dispossess him, picks a pass, keeps possession, quality. He's class, he glides around...but yep, is that what we need? Are we good enough to need that player?

I think he's a lovely player but he undoubtedly slows everything down when we've been all about tempo and bombing on at teams.

With how hard he is to dispossess he reminds me a bit of Coutts. But Coutts picked it up off the keeper, everything was quick, snappy and always kept it moving. And he was always, always available.

Sander slows it down and sorry but there's tonnes of examples every game where he doesn't make himself available for an easy ball.
 
hidesbehindapseudonym said:
In 3 years we will think 'fuck he used to play for us" how did we let him go
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I think that's probably true and don't doubt he'll end up somewhere huge. But Tri Dellas looked superb, ended up winning the Euros and captaining Milan...but he wouldn't have slotted neatly in as a Championship centre half. Sometimes someone just doesn't quite fit.
 
JackSUFC said:
So a good player who will perform well in a team that don’t hoof it over his head most the game?

You’re spot on.
Click to expand...
So when it's Leon Britton or Sander Berge, the style doesn't suit them, but for the rest of the players they're dismissed as not Premier League quality?
 
I’d play him as a no10 in the duffy role

Something has to change we just don’t keep the ball enough
 
essexblade73 said:
You're either blind or stupid if you think Berge has offered very little.
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How does he positively influence our games? How many good results have come because of his play? Two, three? We've won six games since he joined, and one of those, Bournemouth I believe, was despite him, because he set up their equaliser.

It's OK to go on about him oozing class and looking a cut above, but there is very little concrete evidence of him doing anything positive for the side. Which is to be expected, because we lose every week.
 
Guesty said:
How does he positively influence our games? How many good results have come because of his play? Two, three? We've won six games since he joined, and one of those, Bournemouth I believe, was despite him, because he set up their equaliser.

It's OK to go on about him oozing class and looking a cut above, but there is very little concrete evidence of him doing anything positive for the side. Which is to be expected, because we lose every week.
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I explained how he influences games, with his quality. Football is a team game (funny that eh?!) and it's not his fault that most of the lads' form has dipped dramatically since he joined. Are you implying he is to blame for enda, flecky, norwood, to name just 3, for being a shadow of their former selves post lockdown? Are you?!
 
I have said it before and I will say it again, he is very average as a CDM, in our system at least. So much better bombing forward, as he has great control, is difficult to knock off the ball and has a degree of calmness when he finds himself in crossing positions. That's not to say that he puts in great crosses consistently, but he gets his head up and tries to pick out a man.

It's a shame that Ampadu is out injured (any idea when he is back?) because he is our most natural CDM at the moment.
 
Working Class Hero said:
So when it's Leon Britton or Sander Berge, the style doesn't suit them, but for the rest of the players they're dismissed as not Premier League quality?
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Because he named 2 players who had quality that dont fit into a team that dont play a possession game, and the other midfielders are not prem quality...it isnt hard to work out
 
essexblade73 said:
I explained how he influences games, with his quality. Football is a team game (funny that eh?!) and it's not his fault that most of the lads' form has dipped dramatically since he joined. Are you implying he is to blame for enda, flecky, norwood, to name just 3, for being a shadow of their former selves post lockdown? Are you?!
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I'm saying that if he can't do anything to improve results then he doesn't really 'offer' anything does he? Especially for the huge outlay. If we're going to lose every week either way, we'd be better off selling him and sticking someone substantially cheaper in there.

I wouldn't lay the blame for everyone's bad form at his feet, no, of course not. But by the same token the midfield has not worked since he arrived. I'm not sure why he has a free pass with some when Fleck and Norwood, who have done great things for us even in the Premier League, have earned it and Berge has not (that's not to say we should be starting Norwood every week either, he doesn't look up to it).

I just don't get Berge, he looks very good at a few things and this has been translated as 'he's undoubtedly class'. I just don't see his all round play as effective at this level.
 
Guesty said:
I'm saying that if he can't do anything to improve results then he doesn't really 'offer' anything does he? Especially for the huge outlay. If we're going to lose every week either way, we'd be better off selling him and sticking someone substantially cheaper in there.

I wouldn't lay the blame for everyone's bad form at his feet, no, of course not. But by the same token the midfield has not worked since he arrived. I'm not sure why he has a free pass with some when Fleck and Norwood, who have done great things for us even in the Premier League, have earned it and Berge has not (that's not to say we should be starting Norwood every week either, he doesn't look up to it).

I just don't get Berge, he looks very good at a few things and this has been translated as 'he's undoubtedly class'. I just don't see his all round play as effective at this level.
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I had hoped that the class players like Berge, would slowly arrive and integrate with him in a positive way for the club. The alarming loss of form to first team regulars, plus injuries and lack of funding has not allowed this to happen. It also means that players like McBurnie and others are having to pick up the slack, when inexperienced players step up to replace JOC, Fleck and Stevens.
Please try to consider context, when judging individuals contributions.
Ampadu is a temporary addition of the kind of player this club needs, just to keep pace with the best in the premier league.
Worth remembering and accepting that, Wilders hands have been tied by player budgets and low wages. People complain that Wilder has wasted millions on recruitment, yet he was obliged to borrow from the summer transfer budget to get Berge in January. A replacement for Henderson was essential. Ramsdale will come good and look like a bargain in the future.
I think it was Pompey who suggested that Berge might make a decent center half. Not as daft as it sounds when you consider he has all the qualities required of that position, once he learns how to use his height to win headers.
 
Charlieblade said:
I had hoped that the class players like Berge, would slowly arrive and integrate with him in a positive way for the club. The alarming loss of form to first team regulars, plus injuries and lack of funding has not allowed this to happen. It also means that players like McBurnie and others are having to pick up the slack, when inexperienced players step up to replace JOC, Fleck and Stevens.
Please try to consider context, when judging individuals contributions.
Ampadu is a temporary addition of the kind of player this club needs, just to keep pace with the best in the premier league.
Worth remembering and accepting that, Wilders hands have been tied by player budgets and low wages. People complain that Wilder has wasted millions on recruitment, yet he was obliged to borrow from the summer transfer budget to get Berge in January. A replacement for Henderson was essential. Ramsdale will come good and look like a bargain in the future.
I think it was Pompey who suggested that Berge might make a decent center half. Not as daft as it sounds when you consider he has all the qualities required of that position, once he learns how to use his height to win headers.
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He'll be off in January
 



We'd could do with Mo Besic in the side at the moment to get amongst the opposition. We gave Leicesters midfield far too much time and space.
 
Charlieblade said:
I had hoped that the class players like Berge, would slowly arrive and integrate with him in a positive way for the club. The alarming loss of form to first team regulars, plus injuries and lack of funding has not allowed this to happen. It also means that players like McBurnie and others are having to pick up the slack, when inexperienced players step up to replace JOC, Fleck and Stevens.
Please try to consider context, when judging individuals contributions.
Ampadu is a temporary addition of the kind of player this club needs, just to keep pace with the best in the premier league.
Worth remembering and accepting that, Wilders hands have been tied by player budgets and low wages. People complain that Wilder has wasted millions on recruitment, yet he was obliged to borrow from the summer transfer budget to get Berge in January. A replacement for Henderson was essential. Ramsdale will come good and look like a bargain in the future.
I think it was Pompey who suggested that Berge might make a decent center half. Not as daft as it sounds when you consider he has all the qualities required of that position, once he learns how to use his height to win headers.
Click to expand...
Headers ? Berge ? You're avin a larf ! He doesn't know what a header is and he never will.
 
Good player, pointless signing.

We're playing him out of position and we'd have been far better off buying a mobile RCM who offers similar to what an in form Fleck does.

Instead we're playing a deep lying midfielder in the role and despite him clearly being good at football, he's quite ineffective.
 
Oh cmon he’s absolute waste of space this guy! He’s the bad apple in the barrel! Said it all along no talent, no work no results! 😉😉Get rid!👍👍
 
derekacorah said:
Yep, while we’re not at Blackwell levels of hoof we play a very confused style that just doesn’t work. Sander reminds me of Jags in midfield before he left to join Everton, far too good to be getting a stiff neck.
Click to expand...
Are you sure we aren't at Blackwell levels of hoof? I'm not
 
INTERUNITED said:
This lad obviously has more talent than the other players in the squad, but I think we are a worse team with him in it. Sadly he just doesn't fit our style, and no matter where we try and shoehorn him in the side it just doesn't quite work. I'd consider selling him in January, and reinvest the funds on a creative midfielder (assuming we can get our money back for him). In my opinion, he's a player who'd thrive in France or Spain where you get more time on the ball, not sure the Premier league suits him. I'm sure I'll get slated for this, but just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I did think this
 
Berge does have potential to be at a club with higher aspirations than us. That's all it is, potential. Potential doesn't mean anything without it being realised. If he does depart, it would only be based on that potential, nothing he's as of yet achieved as a Premier League player.

Let's be straight, he's not manfully dragging the team along, let down by far inferior players. He's not on a wavelength they don't get because he's several moves ahead. He's part of the current lack of cohesion as much as the next guy. As much as McBurnie has struggled to do his part and Stevens has failed to reach his heights, we're not seeing Berge dominate the middle of the park either, no matter what position he occupies.

In fact there are parallels with when Asprilla signed for Newcastle. Decent reputation, odd fleeting signs, but the collective unit actually was functioning better without him than with him. And he needs to own that as much as Wilder.

Yes, he's built up some stock as an international player and player in the UCL, probably losing to the bigger teams similar to those we play every week and beating smaller teams that United would also dispatch 9/10 times if afforded the chance to face.

However, let's get a little away from the fact that Sander is somehow deigning us with his presence as some sort of benevolent act towards us.

He's in as much shit has we are. Whilst it would be well beyond the realms of his initial expectations, him playing in the Championship isn't beneath him. In fact it might be the making of him. Just as Pukki, Buendia, Aarons are having to do so right now. And you know what? It's because along with their mates, they weren't good enough last year. This is where Berge finds himself too.

He's not imposing himself enough defensively, especially for his frame. He's notched 1 penalty in 12 appearances so far, so going the other way he's not setting the world alight. Apart from Fulham, I haven't seen him show authority on a game with any consistency either.

So whilst we've gone with the theme that if/when we go down he'll be off, I think if we do want to bounce back we also consider that he also needs to help get us out of the shit him and the rest of the collective currently have us in. Let's face it, if he isn't able to drive a team to promotion under Wilder in the Championship, then aspirations to getting back to playing in Europe are just that, aspirations.

He may well end up back in the UCL, but at the current rate it would not be at a club worth any salt. There are teams from Luxembourg and other shit leagues that 'play in the Champions League' so surely his own hopes are to do enough to play with a major player there on merit. At the moment, just like us, he's miles off.
 
Champagneblade said:
Berge does have potential to be at a club with higher aspirations than us. That's all it is, potential. Potential doesn't mean anything without it being realised. If he does depart, it would only be based on that potential, nothing he's as of yet achieved as a Premier League player.

Let's be straight, he's not manfully dragging the team along, let down by far inferior players. He's not on a wavelength they don't get because he's several moves ahead. He's part of the current lack of cohesion as much as the next guy. As much as McBurnie has struggled to do his part and Stevens has failed to reach his heights, we're not seeing Berge dominate the middle of the park either, no matter what position he occupies.

In fact there are parallels with when Asprilla signed for Newcastle. Decent reputation, odd fleeting signs, but the collective unit actually was functioning better without him than with him. And he needs to own that as much as Wilder.

Yes, he's built up some stock as an international player and player in the UCL, probably losing to the bigger teams similar to those we play every week and beating smaller teams that United would also dispatch 9/10 times if afforded the chance to face.

However, let's get a little away from the fact that Sander is somehow deigning us with his presence as some sort of benevolent act towards us.

He's in as much shit has we are. Whilst it would be well beyond the realms of his initial expectations, him playing in the Championship isn't beneath him. In fact it might be the making of him. Just as Pukki, Buendia, Aarons are having to do so right now. And you know what? It's because along with their mates, they weren't good enough last year. This is where Berge finds himself too.

He's not imposing himself enough defensively, especially for his frame. He's notched 1 penalty in 12 appearances so far, so going the other way he's not setting the world alight. Apart from Fulham, I haven't seen him show authority on a game with any consistency either.

So whilst we've gone with the theme that if/when we go down he'll be off, I think if we do want to bounce back we also consider that he also needs to help get us out of the shit him and the rest of the collective currently have us in. Let's face it, if he isn't able to drive a team to promotion under Wilder in the Championship, then aspirations to getting back to playing in Europe are just that, aspirations.

He may well end up back in the UCL, but at the current rate it would not be at a club worth any salt. There are teams from Luxembourg and other shit leagues that 'play in the Champions League' so surely his own hopes are to do enough to play with a major player there on merit. At the moment, just like us, he's miles off.
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There is a difference between playing in the Champions League and being a Champions League level player. Sander's record in that competition is W0 D1 L5. Four of those losses were pastings by three or more goals.

If the world had not descended in to chaos and we'd sneaked a Champions League place last season, John Lundstram would probably already have a better record than that.
 
He'd look great at Man City.
Deadly_D'Jaffo said:
The problems I had about the transfer are that;

1. It didn't really solve a problem at the time.

2. It wasn't clear (and hasn't been judging by the different roles we've experimented with him in) what position he was to play in our system.

3. It was a 'shit or bust' allowance of the budget when we cried out for a defender, and still do.
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I’d agree with it taking up a lot of the budget but I don’t hate the thinking in making that decision. At the time we invested the money the back 5 was rock solid consistent and regularly available for selection. Whist we weren’t prolific we were effective and had a clear plan to recruit in the summer. The midfield looked good with Norwood still at his best and fleck And Lundstram driving in midfield an opportunity popped up to make us stronger by bringing in a current international at a great age with plenty of room to develop. We were arguably on a really solid footing and in a position to make that kind of investment at the time. Unfortunately over the summer with a short preseason and injuries the wheels have fallen off Norwood and fleck isn’t back to himself plus Lundstram wants out Berge is currently doing all the lifting in that midfield.
 



derekacorah said:
Yep, while we’re not at Blackwell levels of hoof we play a very confused style that just doesn’t work. Sander reminds me of Jags in midfield before he left to join Everton, far too good to be getting a stiff neck.
Click to expand...
I’ve said it elsewhere but it’s the lack of a competent conductor in there alongside someone who you know is just going to keep things ticking doesn’t give it away and finds a man when under pressure. So many times yesterday either Berge or fleck got pressured and isolated in midfield yesterday and just flicked it forward into an area after realising there just wasn’t any help. I thought Lundstram had a really poor first half gave the ball away a fair bit but improved in the second but he’s not gonna be that player who a midfield metronome either.
 
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