Foresight - Plan until 31.01.2010

[SwissBlade]

Following on from what we should've done and what we didn't do in the summer (which some find simple to criticise what we did, but difficulty in offering a decent alternative) its time to look ahead. We've got just under two months, so who to bring in, who to move out, what do we need to work on on the pitch e.g. style of play, freekicks, formation, corners etc.

And how are we going to do it. We have little money and no hotel, so lets be realistic with what we have.

If you were Birch/ Speed what would you be prioritising now.

 

[JohnDenver]

Following on from what we should've done and what we didn't do in the summer (which some find simple to criticise what we did, but difficulty in offering a decent alternative) its time to look ahead. We've got just under two months, so who to bring in, who to move out, what do we need to work on on the pitch e.g. style of play, freekicks, formation, corners etc.

And how are we going to do it. We have little money and no hotel, so lets be realistic with what we have.

If you were Birch/ Speed what would you be prioritising now.

I think we're doing the right things since appointing Speed: Focus on academy, buying the promising Irish lad, doing enough in the loan market to stay up, cutting wages, changing the style of play. As for the business strategy stuff, I'm not qualified to say.

It's just a difficult and lengthy job.

 

[Rudders]

Get rid of surplus full backs
Proper centre back x 2
Proper striker - tall and pacey
Tall, strong midfielder
Powerful right midefielder
Send Nosworthy back to Sunderland
Review fitness of Williamson and Hendo, if necessary transfer list them Monty, Quinn, Wright and Morgan.

 

[SwissBlade]

Cheers Rudders & JD!

What about Reid? Go all out to buy him?

Powerful right mid? - Halford (too expensive i know)

 

[Northyorksblade]

Foresight - Plan until 31.01.2010

Don't know about foresight. Sounds more like 'In retrospect'

 

[lenners]

Swiss, you seem really confused about plain logic.
When it was pointed out in the summer that we had failed to assemble even a full complement of players that means we should have acquired a full complement of players in preparation for the new season.
Is there something confusing in that?

 

[Grecian2000]

1. I would be wanting to look at Nosworthy's loan agreement and try and get him back to Weirside.
2. I would be looking at a CB from somewhere (on less money) and sign him permanently.
3. Lowton would be told the right back spot is his. Go and enjoy it.
4. Calve will be pushed further forward or out of the door.
5. I would be looking to cash in on Quinn/Monty/Ertl (at least we'll save wages if not get a fee)
6. I would be trying to get Reid for the rest of the season (this might be mutually exclusive with 1)
7. I would be looking for a genuine winger (a swap for Ward if neccesary)
8. Boggy or Cressy would go the same way as Q/M and E in 5.
9. I would want another striker (some pace being essential)
10. Visit Lourdes with Williamson, Henderson and the mystery man France and see if miracles do happen

My team is now:
Simonsen
Lowton
Bartley
New CB - until Morgan is fit at least and maybe even after
Jordan - last chance hotel though
New winger
Reid
Britton
Yeates - see Jordan
New Striker
Evans/Ward/Boggy/Cress one from the two who are left

 

[JohnDenver]

Cheers Rudders & JD!

What about Reid? Go all out to buy him?

Powerful right mid? - Halford (too expensive i know)

We won't (and shouldn't) attempt to buy Reid given our little budget deficit.

Any player we do buy simply has to be young and with the hope of coming good in the next two seasons. We should only borrow players as an expedient in order to stay out of the bottom three.

The most frustrating problem we have is the inability to move players on and change faces. Ched, Quinn, Cress et al are here to stay, and they take up far too much of budget in relation to the results they deliver.

 

[SwissBlade]

Swiss, you seem really confused about plain logic.
When it was pointed out in the summer that we had failed to assemble even a full complement of players that means we should have acquired a full complement of players in preparation for the new season.
Is there something confusing in that?

Lenners, I get it, you disagree with my opinion, why not just offer something constructive to the thread, you've banged on about where its all gone wrong, so why not take your chance to, for once respond to the thread, I'm genuinely interested to know what people think we should do.

So we failed to assemble the correct squad (in your opinion), so what! Tell us what you think now as to where we can improve and what we should do. Plenty of others seem content to do this, why can't you do it as well?

---------- Post added at 02:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:09 PM ----------

We won't (and shouldn't) attempt to buy Reid given our little budget deficit.

Any player we do buy simply has to be young and with the hope of coming good in the next two seasons. We should only borrow players as an expedient in order to stay out of the bottom three.

The most frustrating problem we have is the inability to move players on and change faces. Ched, Quinn, Cress et al are here to stay, and they take up far too much of budget in relation to the results they deliver.

Agreed JD, but I think Reid can really offer us something that youngsters can't - Experience. Is he worth the gamble? I guess that would depend on price... so no then

 

[Rudders]

These are just some of the ins and outs we think are needed. If only it was that simple, it would be like Football Manager 2011. But all these comings and goings will unbalance the squad and even players to be retained will be thinking "it might be me next" or "that lad they let go was my best mate" etc and will therefore not play as well.... We are dealing with human beings here. Well paid young lads at that.

Could they play any worse though I hear you ask ?!

And in many ways, as Lenners alluded to Speed has no choice because Blackwell left him the most pathetic squad, lacking bodies in key areas and devoid of key aspects such as pace and height - so what alternative is there to "wheeler-deal"??

I also don't take into account players who might have potential - ie Gary Speed thinks he can improve some of the players we have on the 'out' list.
I would say that as a minimum all the retained players need to have 'spirit' and the 'will to win' - without that we are stuffed. I also think he could teach a few of our better players such as Calve (who is a skilfull lightweight) to stand up for themselves and make more use of their stature to win more tackles and headers.

The bottom line is we must WIN FOOTBALL MATCHES. Speed knows this and he said it when appointed. If we do this, the players we have will play better, we will get more money for players we sell, we will be more attractive to incoming players and we will get bigger crowds - therefore more money. Its not Rocket Science!!

Another thought is A GOOD CUP RUN! Lets have some of those Triple Assualt style magical cup evenings and lets start by dumping an out of form Villa out - they did wonders for team and cup morale. I can hear the chant now "Sacked in the morning..."

Failing that create a SIEGE MENTALITY - us against the world - no-one likes us - UNITE the players!

 

[lenners]

Lenners, I get it, you disagree with my opinion, why not just offer something constructive to the thread, you've banged on about where its all gone wrong, so why not take your chance to, for once respond to the thread, I'm genuinely interested to know what people think we should do.

So we failed to assemble the correct squad (in your opinion), so what! Tell us what you think now as to where we can improve and what we should do. Plenty of others seem content to do this, why can't you do it as well?

---------- Post added at 02:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:09 PM ----------



Agreed JD, but I think Reid can really offer us something that youngsters can't - Experience. Is he worth the gamble? I guess that would depend on price... so no then

Swiss, I'm responding to your contention that it's all hindsight and people are being somehow clever.
You have a problem with accepting it was all pointed out, fair and square, at the time.
This isn't about disagreeing with your opinion, it's about making sure the facts of the matter and what was said at the time are fairly recorded.
The reason we're in an almighty mess is precisely because of what happened - or didn't happen - in the summer.
As someone once said, you've gotta know your history to know where you're coming from.
You're attempting to present a scenario where we've magically appeared in December without enough quality or quantity of players and to run away from the consequences of a summer you, bizarrely, said had gone well.
Nowt of any real consequence is going to happen during the winter. We'll muddle through, trying to get a team out and hoping to scramble enough points to stay afloat.
And perhaps next close-season, we really will do some proper planning and not find ourselves completely at sea, yet again, with a half-baked mish-mash of players, plenty of whom won't be here in a year's time.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Once again good stuff Swiss. My take on where we go from here:-

Step 1 - Win as many games as possible between now and January.....BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
Step 2 - Get Jamie Ward and Darius Henderson back as quickly as possible.
Step 3 - Sign an experienced centre half in January (someone who can step into Morgan's role).
Step 4 - If at all financially possible, sign Andy Reid for the rest of the season. He could be the difference.
Step 5 - Move some on and replace with academy lads. I dont care if they're not ready, its pointless supressing their development.
Step 6 - Get these two Irish lads in if they're any good and bed them into the side as quickly as possible.
Step 7 - Ease Lee Williamson back in and dont rush him. We might need him at the end of the season!

In amongst all this we must keep things simple tactically. Set up in a solid shape and let the players we have play to their strengths. If we have gaps to plug, then plug them with young players who need experience.....dont try to shoe-horn a player into an unfamiliar position to make do OR play someone who has a knock/injury.

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

Good news Len. Must have been a cracking match. Did you go?

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/08122010/58/fa-cup-orient-score-eight.html

 

[SwissBlade]

Swiss, I'm responding to your contention that it's all hindsight and people are being somehow clever.
You have a problem with accepting it was all pointed out, fair and square, at the time.
This isn't about disagreeing with your opinion, it's about making sure the facts of the matter and what was said at the time are fairly recorded.
The reason we're in an almighty mess is precisely because of what happened - or didn't happen - in the summer.
As someone once said, you've gotta know your history to know where you're coming from.
You're attempting to present a scenario where we've magically appeared in December without enough quality or quantity of players and to run away from the consequences of a summer you, bizarrely, said had gone well.
Nowt of any real consequence is going to happen during the winter. We'll muddle through, trying to get a team out and hoping to scramble enough points to stay afloat.
And perhaps next close-season, we really will do some proper planning and not find ourselves completely at sea, yet again, with a half-baked mish-mash of players, plenty of whom won't be here in a year's time.

Lenners I don't understand your agenda, do you have to turn every thread into your club bashing? You never offer any solution, which is the point of this thread.

You're continuing to respond to the hindsight thread on this one.

You're assuming things - Wrongly - I'm trying to get the balanced views of what people think we should do going forward, not forgetting the past couple of years, but looking ahead to where we can now go.

I'm not attempting to suggest that its all hindsight, not on this thread, not even on the hindsight thread.

I'm not attempting to suggest any magical scenario.

I didn't also ask what we will actually do, I don't need mystic meg predictions, I wanted to know what people think we SHOULD do.

 

[lenners]

Lenners I don't understand your agenda, do you have to turn every thread into your club bashing? You never offer any solution, which is the point of this thread.

You're continuing to respond to the hindsight thread on this one.

You're assuming things - Wrongly - I'm trying to get the balanced views of what people think we should do going forward, not forgetting the past couple of years, but looking ahead to where we can now go.

I'm not attempting to suggest that its all hindsight, not on this thread, not even on the hindsight thread.

I'm not attempting to suggest any magical scenario.

I didn't also ask what we will actually do, I don't need mystic meg predictions, I wanted to know what people think we SHOULD do.

Swiss, my only agenda is to try to get at the truth.
For the third time, when someone points out - at the time - that we are failing to assemble a full squad/team the solution is contained therein.
And yet you bizarrely not only contend we had a good summer but continue to persist that I never offer a solution.
One was offered at the time, however much you try to ignore that basic, self-evident fact.
I've no problem with you coming on and asking people for sticking-plaster solutions to the injuries inflicted in a car crash summer.
But you ain't gonna get away with the notion that we had a 'good summer' or that no-one pointed out at the time what we were failing to do and what we needed to do.

 

[SwissBlade]

Swiss, my only agenda is to try to get at the truth.
For the third time, when someone points out - at the time - that we are failing to assemble a full squad/team the solution is contained therein.
And yet you bizarrely not only contend we had a good summer but continue to persist that I never offer a solution.
One was offered at the time, however much you try to ignore that basic, self-evident fact.
I've no problem with you coming on and asking people for sticking-plaster solutions to the injuries inflicted in a car crash summer.
But you ain't gonna get away with the notion that we had a 'good summer' or that no-one pointed out at the time what we were failing to do and what we needed to do.

Lenners, put this in the Hindsight thread, its not appropriate on this thread.

 

[sheffielder]

1. See if anyone will be Jamie Ward
2. make Lowton full time fullback
3. Although I like Calve, I need his wages elsewhere. Can we send him back
4. See if Speed's mate Bruce needs Nosworthy back.
5. As much as I like Reid those wages need to be spend elsewhere.
6. We need a powerful runner from midfield to give Britton more Space.
7. Sell Ward
8. Sell or get rid of Cresswell/Evans
9. Sign a new cente half
10. Go back to trying to play the football we did for the scunthorpe game. Prefer to lose like that to how we have done at Doncaster etc;
11. get a left winger
12. all signings above with pace power height

 

[Trigger Blade]

Swiss, my only agenda is to try to get at the truth.
For the third time, when someone points out - at the time - that we are failing to assemble a full squad/team the solution is contained therein.
And yet you bizarrely not only contend we had a good summer but continue to persist that I never offer a solution.
One was offered at the time, however much you try to ignore that basic, self-evident fact.
I've no problem with you coming on and asking people for sticking-plaster solutions to the injuries inflicted in a car crash summer.
But you ain't gonna get away with the notion that we had a 'good summer' or that no-one pointed out at the time what we were failing to do and what we needed to do.

len, you've got a godsend of a hindsight thread to tell us all what you've told us a million times before, please use it wisely. This one's a bit more tricky, because it needs to look forward and hindsight's awkward like that.

So, what should happen? Remind me what your solution was, I've forgotten, no one will mind you repeating something, we are very used to it.

More importantly, what are you planning to do about anything, there are after all things within your power?

 

[lenners]

Trig, if it were all about hindsight, I'd say so.
But, as you know - if you were to be honest with yourself - it isn't.
For the 4th time now, the solution was there in the summer and was posted in the summer. Undeniably, clearly and correctly.
Anything else is sticking plaster, a few loans here and there, scuffling around for points and so on.
The bigger picture - of which last summer was very evidently a key part - is all that matters.
Everything else is building sandcastles when the tsunami warning has already gone off.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Trig, if it were all about hindsight, I'd say so.
But, as you know - if you were to be honest with yourself - it isn't.
For the 4th time now, the solution was there in the summer and was posted in the summer. Undeniably, clearly and correctly.
Anything else is sticking plaster, a few loans here and there, scuffling around for points and so on.
The bigger picture - of which last summer was very evidently a key part - is all that matters.
Everything else is building sandcastles when the tsunami warning has already gone off.

There we have it, clearly and correctly, len has absolutely no idea, that's len who regularly goes into double figures when there's no need to tell us his view, can't even manage it twice.

Now he's getting exasperated because he's told us four times in this thread that he did tell us in the past what needed to be done, but he isn't going to refresh our memories.

Anybody else remember what his masterplan was?

 

[Rudders]

1. See if anyone will be Jamie Ward
2. make Lowton full time fullback
3. Although I like Calve, I need his wages elsewhere. Can we send him back
4. See if Speed's mate Bruce needs Nosworthy back.
5. As much as I like Reid those wages need to be spend elsewhere.
6. We need a powerful runner from midfield to give Britton more Space.
7. Sell Ward
8. Sell or get rid of Cresswell/Evans
9. Sign a new cente half
10. Go back to trying to play the football we did for the scunthorpe game. Prefer to lose like that to how we have done at Doncaster etc;
11. get a left winger
12. all signings above with pace power height

I think a lot of Blades are thinking along the same lines. I think we should look at buying players from clubs desperate for the cash (Ie Plymouth needing to raise funds in transfer window: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/9267780.stm

Anyone decent amongst their ranks?

 

[lenners]

Trig, much as I wouldn't claim having a full complement of players in the summer is a masterplan, I think most sentient beings would recognise that as a solid basis and solid plan. I know of at least one sentient being who posted that at the time, more than once, during the summer.
If you do that, you then do not end up having fans posting 'what are we going to do now?' threads in the middle of the season when you're short of players having failed to do what should have been done in the summer.
I'm not sure if I can make it any clearer for you than that.

 

[SwissBlade]

Trig, much as I wouldn't claim having a full complement of players in the summer is a masterplan, I think most sentient beings would recognise that as a solid basis and solid plan. I know of at least one sentient being who posted that at the time, more than once, during the summer.
If you do that, you then do not end up having fans posting 'what are we going to do now?' threads in the middle of the season when you're short of players having failed to do what should have been done in the summer.
I'm not sure if I can make it any clearer for you than that.

Lenners, read the other posters on this thread, they have attempted to offer solutions, a plan (something you want United to come up with) however you keep going round in circles making vague statements but no solid way forward.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Trig, much as I wouldn't claim having a full complement of players in the summer is a masterplan, I think most sentient beings would recognise that as a solid basis and solid plan. I know of at least one sentient being who posted that at the time, more than once, during the summer.
If you do that, you then do not end up having fans posting 'what are we going to do now?' threads in the middle of the season when you're short of players having failed to do what should have been done in the summer.
I'm not sure if I can make it any clearer for you than that.

Is that it? Well, it's certainly not rocket science, but at least now we know......we need some players. Why can't Speedo and McCabe see it, dozy sods?

 

[alcoblade]

Trig, much as I wouldn't claim having a full complement of players in the summer is a masterplan, I think most sentient beings would recognise that as a solid basis and solid plan. I know of at least one sentient being who posted that at the time, more than once, during the summer.
If you do that, you then do not end up having fans posting 'what are we going to do now?' threads in the middle of the season when you're short of players having failed to do what should have been done in the summer.
I'm not sure if I can make it any clearer for you than that.

For Christ sake Len, I think most will accept that the broken clock was correct in the summer. You've got another thread you can dedicate to gloating about it.

This is a thread for what next. It's not rocket science.

UTB

 

[beightonblade]

#1 priority find a new owner, the whole ethos at BDTBL is wrong....rotten to the core.
In the short term get rid of Tom Hark and cross yer fingers for results.

 

[Vancouver]

 

[lenners]

For Christ sake Len, I think most will accept that the broken clock was correct in the summer. You've got another thread you can dedicate to gloating about it.

This is a thread for what next. It's not rocket science.

UTB

Re-read the original post by Swiss.

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

Lenners, read the other posters on this thread, they have attempted to offer solutions, a plan (something you want United to come up with) however you keep going round in circles making vague statements but no solid way forward.

No my friend. The solution was there in the summer and was pointed out in the summer.
Nothing vague, just simple and straightforward. The starting point is to assemble a squad and team ready for the new season. Not try to assemble one half way through and even fail at that.
There is no solution now. Just a scuffle, a loan here and there, a few prayers, try and get by.
A pretence that there's some great masterplan to be unearthed, some kind of 'solution', is just that, a complete pretence. Too late.

 

[SwissBlade]

Re-read the original post by Swiss.

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------



No my friend. The solution was there in the summer and was pointed out in the summer.
Nothing vague, just simple and straightforward. The starting point is to assemble a squad and team ready for the new season. Not try to assemble one half way through and even fail at that.
There is no solution now. Just a scuffle, a loan here and there, a few prayers, try and get by.
A pretence that there's some great masterplan to be unearthed, some kind of 'solution', is just that, a complete pretence. Too late.

Oh right! That is/was the solution.... great! I will make sure I read your pearls of wisdom in future. Sorry I missed it the first time, I just assumed you were being vague. More than enough detail there.

So the solution to all our problems was... Assemble a squad and team ready for the new season. Genius.

Oh and this weeks Lottery numbers - will be 6 different numbers between 1-49... Good luck everyone!

 

[Worksop II]

Oh and this weeks Lottery numbers - will be 6 different numbers between 1-49... Good luck everyone!

Surely, it should be between 0 and 50