Genuine leadership?

[S64 Blade]

Thought I was on a Middlesbrough forum for a moment then.

 

[oldblade]

Gentlemen.

As stated previously, the only people who can prevent others having their say is Foxy and myself.

Can we get back on topic please and stop getting personal? Frankly, I'm getting rather sick of all the bickering so will start stepping in. Consider this a final warning.

As far as the rules of the forum are concerned, everyone has a right to voice an opinion. We prefer that those opinions are discussed without resorting to childish "you can't say that" behaviour.

Foxy and myself are not prepared to pay for this board if this is the kind of thing that's going to become the norm.

Cut it out... that goes for you all.

I found it all quite amusing. Cheered me up a bit after a dismal few (footballing) days!

 

[themaninblack]

Thought I was on a Middlesbrough forum for a moment then.

At the risk of getting carried away with what is going on at Boro, this is an interesting read with some parallels to BDTBL

http://anthonyvickers.boroblogs.co.uk/2009/10/gate-closes-for.html

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Didn't Cattermole and Downing come through their academy as well?
That's four high quality players that have come through in recent years.
It's an outstanding record.

I'm glad you've brought Cattermole up - wouldn't it have been better leadership (from Southgate or Gibson) to have kept him, rather than offload him to Wigan? Looks like a major error in judgement that, both financially (his fee doubled in a year after Middlesbrough ditched him), and for the club in general, given that he could well have helped save them from relegation. Bringing a player through the academy and selling them off cheaply would surely be criticised by you were it done at this club. We actually got considerably more for Naughton than Boro got for Cattermole, despite the fact that Cattermole plays in an area of the pitch that would tend to command a higher fee than full-back, and had greater experience both in the Premiership and at Under 21 level.

But back the question I posed (not the one you answered), based on your post, no other current players then?

 

[Darren]

I'll not bother arguing with the Gospel According To You Two then. I didn't realise you were the arbiters of what is and isn't a valid opinion. It's great that you are here to tell us what is and what isn't valid. What next? Do we need your permission to merely post? Shall we put every post forward for your critique as to what is and what isn't a valid opinion? I might not agree with what you say, but I won't suggest that your opinion is less valid.

If this is the quality of the argument that Blades United used to attract then thank God it's dead. If you disagree with the likes of lenners and company then
Thanks fellas, we'll all not bother having a differing opinion then, as you are correct in everything and nobody is allowed to disagree.

Freedom of speech. Just watch what you say.

You're completely missing my point and resorting to the same personal abuse as you resorted to with Revolution.

Can we get a few things straight

1. I am not saying that you cannot post whatever you like and wouldn't dream of saying that. My point is that, on the evidence, I think what you say is clearly wrong and invalid. If you think the evidence is otherwise, why don't we debate that instead of name calling?

2. You are quite at liberty to call my opinions wrong and invalid if you like. I think it would help the forum though if you put forward cogent reasons if you say that.

3. Maybe we have different definitions of "valid" which may be what has caused you to get a bit upset. To me an invalid argument is one that does not follow from the premises, which I don't think yours does. The word "valid" apparently means to you a suggestion that you do not have the right to put forward your argument. No-one has ever said that.

4. Notwithstanding this, I really can't see how you make the jump from people disagreeing with your opinion to an attack on free speech.

 

[LSF]

Me thinks that Shoreham bloke lost his rag at some point during the debate. He's not the first to be tied in knots by Len & Darren

 

[shorehamview]

Okay, fair enough, I'm tied in knots and Middlesbrough are in fact the greatest football side in the world, nay, the cosmiverse.

Steve Gibson has shown greater leadership than Churchill, Caesar, Terry Nutkins and The Wurzels. £200 million, which is frankly fuck-all, really, for a whole League Cup and a highly coveted place in the Championship is a fantastic return and we should all want Steve Gibson for Prime Minister. Let's hear it for Steve and his leadership! Yay Steve!!!!!!!

Oh no, hang on, I didn't mean it. I just wanted to say that I don't think his leadership has been "strong". That's all. I, that is to say, me, myself, personally have the opinion that, despite the views of others, Steve Gibson is not the greatest chairman that English, and that means World football, has ever seen.

Is that okay now? Can I have a cup of tea and a biscuit now please?

 

[Revolution]

Oh no, hang on, I didn't mean it. I just wanted to say that I don't think his leadership has been "strong". That's all. I, that is to say, me, myself, personally have the opinion that, despite the views of others, Steve Gibson is not the greatest chairman that English, and that means World football, has ever seen.

Fair enough. I think Steve Gibson is a good chairman, on the whole, and is primarily responsible for Middlesbrough having its best period in it's history. I think he's done a better job for Boro than any chairman, including McCabe, has done for us. You think he should have done better with all that money. I can see that's an arguable point.

People are also saying that Gibson can't pick a manager, noting his appointments of McClaren, Robson and Southgate. Southgate, I'd agree, was a poor appointment. Robson did an excellent job early on, and McClaren was also good for Boro. I'd say people are thinking of their post Boro careers when designating them as bad managers. But again, it's arguable you might be right.

But the only issue I picked you up on was the assertion that Middlesbrough and United had had an equally succesful last 15 years. That statement, as others have shown, stands up to no scrutiny whatsoever. If we'd been debating that matter face to face, or perhaps 20 years or so ago before this idea that Darren speaks of that all views are equally valid took hold, you'd have just said you were exaggerating and we'd have moved on to talk about the more interesting points in this thread. But no, toys have to be thrown out of the pram because people venture to suggest that someone"s "opinion" might be invalid when on any objective measure it plainly was. Indeed, what is worse, you then go and accuse me off being a former BU poster, which I am not. It's a shame that bandwidth paid for by other people is wasted on such matters.

To conclude, post what you want. But be prepared for people to disagree with you, or even dismiss you arguments outright. That is how internet forums work. That is how life works.

And Linz:

As far as the rules of the forum are concerned, everyone has a right to voice an opinion. We prefer that those opinions are discussed without resorting to childish "you can't say that" behaviour.

If that is aimed at me, it is unfair. People can say what they like. If what they say is untenable, don't be surprised if other people call them on it.

 

[DuncDisorderly]

Crikey, I imagine most Boro fans can scarcely believe their luck in having Gibson as chairman for the last decade or so.
Must have been the most dramatic transformation of a going nowhere club in modern history.

I'd still wager on there will still be fans on web sites proclaiming...

a. He's an idiot.
b. He's out of touch.
c. He's filling his own pockets.

 

[Micalijo]

I'd still wager on there will still be fans on web sites proclaiming...

a. He's an idiot.
b. He's out of touch.
c. He's filling his own pockets.

Very probably, but those same fans have seen their side in domestic and european (that's UEFA not CL by the way) cup finals.

 

[lenners]

I'd still wager on there will still be fans on web sites proclaiming...

a. He's an idiot.
b. He's out of touch.
c. He's filling his own pockets.

And?
I suspect there are actually very few given the outlay on players and the level of success they've had.
But every club has a Brian or two in its ranks though most objective measures of Gibson would have him down as the club's best ever chairman by some distance and one of the best at any club in recent menory.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I see that Genuine Leadership worked out well then.....

It'll be interesting to see who they get in now. If you think our problems are bad, then look at Boro. Gibson can't afford to bankroll them anymore, and without the parachute payments, next season will be very tricky.

 

[lenners]

I see that Genuine Leadership worked out well then.....

It'll be interesting to see who they get in now. If you think our problems are bad, then look at Boro. Gibson can't afford to bankroll them anymore, and without the parachute payments, next season will be very tricky.

Oh come on, we ain't having this argument again.
They reached for the stars and bloody well got there under Gibson.
We had one season in the Prem.
The achievements of a smaller club than United are now etched in history.
'If you think our problems are bad, then look at Boro'? Are you for real?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Oh come on, we ain't having this argument again.
They reached for the stars and bloody well got there under Gibson.
We had one season in the Prem.
The achievements of a smaller club than United are now etched in history.
'If you think our problems are bad, then look at Boro'? Are you for real?

Very real. Strachan has left them with a highly paid squad, with falling attendances. If they don't go up this season they are completely fucked.

Boro have done great under Gibson, but they are now paying the price for that genuine leadership he showed last season when they were a point off the top of the league.

 

[lenners]

Very real. Strachan has left them with a highly paid squad, with falling attendances. If they don't go up this season they are completely fucked.

Boro have done great under Gibson, but they are now paying the price for that genuine leadership he showed last season when they were a point off the top of the league.

Jeez, thank the lord we haven't had to put up with Steve Gibson for 15 years. All those cup finals, European football, world class players would have been a right pain in the arse.

 

[DuncDisorderly]

Len was right. Gibson has done real wonders for Boro over the last 10 years, but really cocked up with the appointment of Southgate, then keeping him too long, then firing him too early, recruiting Strachan, then allowing him to buy a bunch of Scots journeymen. The distance from Hero to Zero can be very, very short.

So far as predictions are concerned, it also goes to show that time can make fools of us all...

 

[lenners]

Len was right. Gibson has done real wonders for Boro over the last 10 years, but really cocked up with the appointment of Southgate, then keeping him too long, then firing him too early, recruiting Strachan, then allowing him to buy a bunch of Scots journeymen. The distance from Hero to Zero can be very, very short.

So far as predictions are concerned, it also goes to show that time can make fools of us all...

I very much doubt Steve Gibson will ever be viewed anything other than an absolute star for what he's done for Middlesbrough.
Like Strachan's decision to walk and take no compo, pretty rare taking of responsibility. Mebbes it's out of respect for the chairman..

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Jeez, thank the lord we haven't had to put up with Steve Gibson for 15 years. All those cup finals, European football, world class players would have been a right pain in the arse.

Point out where i've said that, or even implied it please.

 

[lenners]

Point out where i've said that, or even implied it please.

Your sarky post at 5.18pm.
When we're in the kind of glasshouse we find ourselves in, it's pretty ridiculous to start chucking stones at Middlesbrough.

 

[Micalijo]

This thread was absolutely brilliant, loved it. I hope Shoreham is around to read some of his posts again, truly comical and now Highbury comes back for more of the same albeit in a slightly different way - fantastic!

Blackie for Boro - go on Gibbo. Now that would ruin all of his genuine goodwill in the eyes of the fans.

 

[Ollessendro]

Blackie for Boro - go on Gibbo. Now that would ruin all of his genuine goodwill in the eyes of the fans.

That's probably the only move that would wipe out Gibson's legendary status in Middlesborough. It would be hillarious. Maybe he'd take his wife with him too and she's make the pies at the Riverside.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Your sarky post at 5.18pm.
When we're in the kind of glasshouse we find ourselves in, it's pretty ridiculous to start chucking stones at Middlesbrough.

Lenny sunbeam, don't be so touchy.

My sarky post at 5:18 was in reference to your original post. Nowhere in that post was there any reference to what boro have achieved over the last 15 years, and henceforth none in my post.

His genuine and decisive leadership over the last year has seen them landed in a relegation battle.

 

[DuncDisorderly]

I very much doubt Steve Gibson will ever be viewed anything other than an absolute star for what he's done for Middlesbrough.
Like Strachan's decision to walk and take no compo, pretty rare taking of responsibility. Mebbes it's out of respect for the chairman..

Come off it Len. Successes are fleeting and easily forgotten. Gibsons place in history will be as the Chairman with deep pockets who bought them some success, then fecked up royally.

It is me being selective, but I did find this quote on a Boro forum. There were quite a few others.

"Gibson and co have lied to the fans for many years and I have said before he treats the fans with contempt and has done for longtime."

Kind of reminds me of the response to another chairman I know. Seems strange that you stand up for another clubs chairman, but you wont stand up for your own.


Strachan is a unique character. He said when he took the job he did so without the financial need to be in work, so after losing the confidence of everyone in the town by the look of it, its easy for him to shake hands and walk away, or are you implying by your comment about Gibson that no-one has any respect for McCabe..?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Strachans post match interview said it all really. It was obvious from his demeanour that he really didn't give a shit anymore.

 

[lenners]

Come off it Len. Successes are fleeting and easily forgotten. Gibsons place in history will be as the Chairman with deep pockets who bought them some success, then fecked up royally.

It is me being selective, but I did find this quote on a Boro forum. There were quite a few others.

"Gibson and co have lied to the fans for many years and I have said before he treats the fans with contempt and has done for longtime."

Kind of reminds me of the response to another chairman I know. Seems strange that you stand up for another clubs chairman, but you wont stand up for your own.


Strachan is a unique character. He said when he took the job he did so without the financial need to be in work, so after losing the confidence of everyone in the town by the look of it, its easy for him to shake hands and walk away, or are you implying by your comment about Gibson that no-one has any respect for McCabe..?

Dunc, if McCabe got us to cup finals, won a cup, got us to a European final I'd kiss his rear end never mind stand up for him.
As for Strachan, how many other megarich people in football do you know who've walked for nothing?

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 PM ----------

Lenny sunbeam, don't be so touchy.

My sarky post at 5:18 was in reference to your original post. Nowhere in that post was there any reference to what boro have achieved over the last 15 years, and henceforth none in my post.

His genuine and decisive leadership over the last year has seen them landed in a relegation battle.

It was a pointless dig at a chairman of the kind we can only dream of and will probably never have.

 

[DuncDisorderly]

Dunc, if McCabe got us to cup finals, won a cup, got us to a European final I'd kiss his rear end never mind stand up for him.

Lenny. I've been reading your posts for more than five years now, and I can't bring to mind any occasion, even promotion ('limped over the line', I think it was..?) when you have actually been happy about anything. From your constant downplaying of every achievement, to your losing score forecasts (every game), it is your natural reaction to everything Sheffield United to write it off, make derisory comments ('Injury prone donkey' wasn't it for Rob Hulse?), or to meet what success we have with predictions of imminent failure. Believe me if we'd had the ride that Boro have had, you'd still be posting about what a shambles the club was, the squad, the manager, the tactics, the tickets, the marketing and everything else. Fundamentally, I think you believe with all your being that you could be running the club better than the current proprietor although you will never be in a position for us to test that hypothesis.

Gibson has done well for Boro, but he's equally shown himself to be human in the mistakes he has made and then compounded which leaves them below us, with the clock ticking on the parachute payment and a process of downsizing the wage bill still to be done. A man to be respected, yes, but not beatified for his good works...

 

[alcoblade]

Lenny. I've been reading your posts for more than five years now, and I can't bring to mind any occasion, even promotion ('limped over the line', I think it was..?) when you have actually been happy about anything. From your constant downplaying of every achievement, to your losing score forecasts (every game), it is your natural reaction to everything Sheffield United to write it off, make derisory comments ('Injury prone donkey' wasn't it for Rob Hulse?), or to meet what success we have with predictions of imminent failure. Believe me if we'd had the ride that Boro have had, you'd still be posting about what a shambles the club was, the squad, the manager, the tactics, the tickets, the marketing and everything else. Fundamentally, I think you believe with all your being that you could be running the club better than the current proprietor although you will never be in a position for us to test that hypothesis.

I think you need to plead guilty here Lennard....

UTB

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I wonder what the stance will be next year once the parachute payments have run out and Boro are slashing their squad left right and centre.

 

[raul]

They will be very very similar to us, only with some better memories(Trophies, Juninho, that sort of thing) to keep them warm. Rocket Science it is not.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

They will be very very similar to us, only with some better memories(Trophies, Juninho, that sort of thing) to keep them warm. Rocket Science it is not.

Surely they will be in a worse state than us. Their wage bill is far higher than ours ever was even during the Robson reign.

Lenny. I've been reading your posts for more than five years now, and I can't bring to mind any occasion, even promotion ('limped over the line', I think it was..?) when you have actually been happy about anything. From your constant downplaying of every achievement, to your losing score forecasts (every game), it is your natural reaction to everything Sheffield United to write it off, make derisory comments ('Injury prone donkey' wasn't it for Rob Hulse?), or to meet what success we have with predictions of imminent failure. Believe me if we'd had the ride that Boro have had, you'd still be posting about what a shambles the club was, the squad, the manager, the tactics, the tickets, the marketing and everything else. Fundamentally, I think you believe with all your being that you could be running the club better than the current proprietor although you will never be in a position for us to test that hypothesis.

Gibson has done well for Boro, but he's equally shown himself to be human in the mistakes he has made and then compounded which leaves them below us, with the clock ticking on the parachute payment and a process of downsizing the wage bill still to be done. A man to be respected, yes, but not beatified for his good works...

If we were in the top 3 and sacked a young promising manager to replace him with Strachan Len would have gone off the scale.