Stadium and facilities redevelopment post KMC

[CaptainMorgans]

Liverpool's version of the South stand extension cost £100 million.

That's probably a better example.

It added 8500 to the capacity of that stand, which is probably what we'd be looking at with the South Stand.

Add in a whole new Kop. You could easily see the development being around the £200m mark.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Have you seen Brentford's stadium? It's very small, hardly comparable, especially if the capacity of a rebuilt kop would likely be similar to their entire stadium.

There's also the cost of moving a hill.

And as for Liverpool, don't forget that is technically an expansion, not a rebuild.

An expansion would be much much cheaper.

A total rebuild means additional costs and massive inconvenience to fans due to prolonged partial stadium closure ie reduced capacity

 

[YES Blade]

An expansion would be much much cheaper.

A total rebuild means additional costs and massive inconvenience to fans due to prolonged partial stadium closure ie reduced capacity

That’s true, but in the long run a bit of short term pain will be worth it if we’ve a got stadium of superior quality in the end.

 

[Shakespeare blade]

Many will be surprised at just how many people there are in this region that would come to watch United in the Premier League

It's not that long ago when Sunderland and Newcastle would have seen 15,000 as a good attendance, and in many cases attendances dropped to 8,000 - 10,000

Clubs like Leicester have doubled their traditional average attendance, even a relatively good Leicester team wouldn't get any more than 15,000 - 20,000

Bristol City have probably quadrupled their traditional average

Brighton have increased their capacity 3 times over what they would traditionally expect at the Goldstone Ground, and increased it six times over what they were getting a short time ago at the Withdean.

Southampton, 15,000 at The Dell,
Did they build a new stadium with a 15,000 capacity because occasionally one or two seats were left unsold?
No they built a 32,000 seater stadium without any history of getting those attendances.

United with higher traditional numbers than these clubs should be aiming higher

If you build it, they will come,
Never a truer statement said.

42,000 - 44 000 and there should not be a problem filling it provided that everybody can actually see what's going on on the pitch, prices are reasonable and a person can buy two or three tickets for his family or friends

I agree, I struggle to get tickets at the moment as I don’t live close enough for a season ticket, so find myself as a floating supporter who can only go to the odd game, how many of us are there
If I knew on a regular basis I could get tickets I would come a lot more
As you’ve said build it and they will come
Also don’t forget about how many students fill Sheffield and surrounding cities

 

[bromtom]

Anfield Road expansion is going to cost £60m and add 7-8k.

That's a better guide than the one they've already done, which is kitted out to a Champions League level.

We don't need that, we need indoor concourses and some bogs, not a cheese room and a Michelin starred restaurant.

 

[Shakespeare blade]

We really need to stop comparisons with Spurs. To start with it wasn’t a development or redevelopment of WHL, it was a complete rebuild.

Building bars etc? Clubs put bars and food outlets out to tender so reducing possible stock losses. How many days a year will they be operational? That’s like the Pig who said Chansiri should buy all the takeaways, chip and sandwich shops around the Sty as “they were all really busy on match days”.

In any event. Money. The business plan will need to be positive. The South Stand nearly killed us. The Income money levels are hugely different but so are the costs. Consolidate first.
[/QUOTE
It depends how you structure those contracts and with whom
I’ve always believed in house is the way forward with guest company’s flogging their merchandise, bring in real smaller real ale companies for example giving them a chance to sell to a wider audience, they pay for the privilege for the audience given to them, same could be said of street food vendors etc, along side your own in house catering and wet sales team, contractors are there to get as much money as possible from the situation for as little outlay as possible, they always end up getting sacked and plan for it
Hospitality can be very lucrative if done correctly, Sheffield United along with most clubs are very, very poor at this as it’s not their main business

We really need to stop comparisons with Spurs. To start with it wasn’t a development or redevelopment of WHL, it was a complete rebuild.

Building bars etc? Clubs put bars and food outlets out to tender so reducing possible stock losses. How many days a year will they be operational? That’s like the Pig who said Chansiri should buy all the takeaways, chip and sandwich shops around the Sty as “they were all really busy on match days”.

In any event. Money. The business plan will need to be positive. The South Stand nearly killed us. The Income money levels are hugely different but so are the costs. Consolidate first.

It depends how you structure those contracts and with whom
I’ve always believed in house is the way forward with guest company’s flogging their merchandise, bring in real smaller real ale companies for example giving them a chance to sell to a wider audience, they pay for the privilege for the audience given to them, same could be said of street food vendors etc, along side your own in house catering and wet sales team, contractors are there to get as much money as possible from the situation for as little outlay as possible, they always end up getting sacked and plan for it
Hospitality can be very lucrative if done correctly, Sheffield United along with most clubs are very, very poor at this as it’s not their main business

 

[Kanye]

You could easily see the development being around the £200m mark.

Which is why it probably won't happen.

That’s true, but in the long run a bit of short term pain will be worth it if we’ve a got stadium of superior quality in the end.

What if the short term pain was relegation? Would it be worth it?

Anfield Road expansion is going to cost £60m and add 7-8k.

That's a better guide than the one they've already done, which is kitted out to a Champions League level.

We don't need that, we need indoor concourses and some bogs, not a cheese room and a Michelin starred restaurant.

People are talking about completely demolishing the kop and removing the hill underneath - not really comparable to Liverpool's expansion.

 

[Bladesman]

Very interesting comment found in the memorial garden post made today...

“In the near future, we anticipate that there will be extensive development of Bramall Lane's facilities to improve our historic home. “

View attachment 91469

Finally! We are going to fit some better toilets on the KOP.

 

[bromtom]

Which is why it probably won't happen.



What if the short term pain was relegation? Would it be worth it?



People are talking about completely demolishing the kop and removing the hill underneath - not really comparable to Liverpool's expansion.

The Anfield Road expansion is a completely new stand, replacement of the old one, building back to front (as far as I can work out)

 

[Kanye]

The Anfield Road expansion is a completely new stand, replacement of the old one, building back to front (as far as I can work out)

You're right, it looks like a completely new stand. They do seem to have the benefit of using the old base (not a technical term lol) though, and they obviously didn't have to move a hill!

 

[bromtom]

You're right, it looks like a completely new stand. They do seem to have the benefit of using the old base (not a technical term lol) though, and they obviously didn't have to move a hill!

How many cubic metres of dirt do you reckon we could shift with a "own a bit of the Kop" scheme. Bag it up and let people come and collect it from the car park haha

 

[Jon Bon II]

Brighton’s stadium cost £93m, ok that’s about 10 years ago, but materials and labour costs haven’t gone up that much.

Apart from the fact that we don't want a stadium that's anything like Brighton's.

Some right shit being talked on this thread about knocking up a new stadium like it's The fucking Sims. Anyone that advocates moving to a new stadium or turning Bramall Lane into a soulless bowl, should be hung upside down from gibbets along Cherry Street, with their atmosphere enhancing clappers rammed firmly up their arses and left for the crows. We've got a magnificent, HISTORIC stadium that just needs some extending and tweaking. We neither need, nor want, a fucking soulless bowl, thank you very much.

 

[Kanye]

How many cubic metres of dirt do you reckon we could shift with a "own a bit of the Kop" scheme. Bag it up and let people come and collect it from the car park haha

Dibs on the unexploded bombs.

 

[YES Blade]

Apart from the fact that we don't want a stadium that's anything like Brighton's.

Some right shit being talked on this thread about knocking up a new stadium like it's The fucking Sims. Anyone that advocates moving to a new stadium or turning Bramall Lane into a soulless bowl, should be hung upside down from gibbets along Cherry Street, with their atmosphere enhancing clappers rammed firmly up their arses and left for the crows. We've got a magnificent, HISTORIC stadium that just needs some extending and tweaking. We neither need, nor want, a fucking soulless bowl, thank you very much.

I never said we do!

 

[SW12 to S12 to S18]

Anfield Road expansion is going to cost £60m and add 7-8k.

That's a better guide than the one they've already done, which is kitted out to a Champions League level.

We don't need that, we need indoor concourses and some bogs, not a cheese room and a Michelin starred restaurant.

I’d love a pre match cheese room to be fair.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

The construction costs would be cheaper if you did both at the same time, but it wouldn't be the brightest move due to the reduced capacity during a season.

To be clear, you could probably implement McCabe's plans for £70m(ish). But a complete rebuild of the Kop, the corners and a new South tier with all of the concourse facilities as discussed... I don't think it's crazy to think it would be double.

McCabe’s costs were nothing like that. From memory I think it was about £26m for the job lot which he was going to personally pay for.

Obviously would be more now but considering the effects of the current economic climate, maybe not a lot more.

 

[Gareth Kay]

West Ham had a huge ST waiting list. Hardly surprising their attendances increased. It’s hardly been a secret.

Have you jumped back on the PL bandwagon or are you still golfing?

So why did they have empty seats for 19 years

 

[metalblade]

I'd say adding 3000 seats onto the back of the kop is crazy the facilities can't cope as it is when it is full put 3000 more on there and it would take half a hour to go for a piss. Then there is the time it would take to evacuate the kop if need be, if you are sat in the middle like I do it takes 10minutes to get out after the game unless you leave your seat bang on 90mins and watch extra time as you make your way to the exits. 50 years past it's sell by date at least, maybe even 70 years out of date it is in desperate need of a change.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I'd say adding 3000 seats onto the back of the kop is crazy the facilities can't cope as it is when it is full put 3000 more on there and it would take half a hour to go for a piss. Then there is the time it would take to evacuate the kop if need be, if you are sat in the middle like I do it takes 10minutes to get out after the game unless you leave your seat bang on 90mins and watch extra time as you make your way to the exits. 50 years past it's sell by date at least, maybe even 70 years out of date it is in desperate need of a change.

So do the South Stand and BL first then connect the SS and Kop when you expand it with more facilities. No fans have to miss any games either.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I'd say adding 3000 seats onto the back of the kop is crazy the facilities can't cope as it is when it is full put 3000 more on there and it would take half a hour to go for a piss. Then there is the time it would take to evacuate the kop if need be, if you are sat in the middle like I do it takes 10minutes to get out after the game unless you leave your seat bang on 90mins and watch extra time as you make your way to the exits. 50 years past it's sell by date at least, maybe even 70 years out of date it is in desperate need of a change.

The expansion designs weren’t just extra seats.
There was also going to be a massive enclosed concourse with plenty of large toilet areas, bars and kiosks. Top quality spacious facilities.
There were also to be some office space and a car park.

Thats my point....a total rebuild is probably double the cost for not much extra benefit compared to McCabes old design.
The main difference between the old design and a total rebuild would be a couple of inches more knee room.

 

[Sheffsteel]

So do the South Stand and BL first then connect the SS and Kop when you expand it with more facilities. No fans have to miss any games either.

Fans would miss the games....the Kop and South stand are different rake angles...so the Kop would need closing to make it steeper.
Also the current Kop goes well behind the South stand so joining then wouldn’t provide any extra seats.
Think it would reduce seats and make the ground more like a bowl style....which usually means the atmosphere suffers.

 

[metalblade]

The expansion designs weren’t just extra seats.
There was also going to be a massive enclosed concourse with plenty of large toilet areas, bars and kiosks. Top quality spacious facilities.
There were also to be some office space and a car park.

Thats my point....a total rebuild is probably double the cost for not much extra benefit compared to McCabes old design.
The main difference between the old design and a total rebuild would be a couple of inches more knee room.

Why would you want offices where fans could sit? McCabe really was a wanker file his plans in the bin.

 

[JOEYDEE]

So why did they have empty seats for 19 years

Have you seen the price of their pies

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Fans would miss the games....the Kop and South stand are different rake angles...so the Kop would need closing to make it steeper.
Also the current Kop goes well behind the South stand so joining then wouldn’t provide any extra seats.
Think it would reduce seats and make the ground more like a bowl style....which usually means the atmosphere suffers.

If you expand the SS first by the proposed 5,000 and then BL over the road you have the capacity of Shoreham, hence no one needs to miss anything. The joining stands comment was just about the fella who posted was saying you couldn’t expand Shoreham because of the toilets .

 

[Sheffsteel]

Why would you want offices where fans could sit? McCabe really was a wanker file his plans in the bin.

The offices were underneath the seats below the concourse areas.....if theres space underneath the stand then may as well use it for something...ideally which could bring in an income. Office rental space. His plan was also for a media centre in the corner between the Kop and South stand.

Corners can’t really be used....unless you join them up making a bowl.
Also a media centre is important in today’s Premier League when there are so many journalists and media people visiting your stadium.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If you expand the SS first by the proposed 5,000 and then BL over the road you have the capacity of Shoreham, hence no one needs to miss anything. The joining stands comment was just about the comment where the posted was saying you could expand Shoreham because of the toilets .

If you do it this season nobody will miss anything anyway. No way are fans coming back any where near capacity this season.

Now is the time to rebuild.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

If you do it this season nobody will miss anything anyway. No way are fans coming back any where near capacity this season.

Now is the time to rebuild.

But you can’t if you're wanting to change the currently approved plans. It would take at least a year to get through planning, unless we’re cracking on with the SS in which case I’d agree, as you can then submit plans to expand Bramall Lane with no capacity reduction when football returns.
Alternatively I’d just put the approved plans into practice, but I ain’t bothered about cost without return or the current leg room. Happily lose the posts though.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

But you can’t if you're wanting to change the currently approved plans. It would take at least a year to get through planning, unless we’re cracking on with the SS in which case I’d agree, as you can then submit plans to expand Bramall Lane with no capacity reduction when football returns.

Though we already had planning permission?

 

[Sheffsteel]

If you expand the SS first by the proposed 5,000 and then BL over the road you have the capacity of Shoreham, hence no one needs to miss anything. The joining stands comment was just about the fella who posted was saying you couldn’t expand Shoreham because of the toilets .

Fair enough Farting Bob.
Im often in 2 minds regards these stadium discusioms.
I’d love us to be really ambitious and our owner to gift us a new stadium as a vanity project just to impress his pals back in Saudi Arabia.

I could pretend I’m playing Sims or Football manager I’d turn the stadium 90 degrees and totally rebuild each stand 1 by 1 making a 60,000 stadium
Then I wake up and try to face realities of the business world....everything must have a clear convincing business plan....preferably with supporting evidence.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Though we already had planning permission?

Only for those McCabe plans that have been approved, no knocking down the Kop etc.