31 points in the bag already - no fear

[mattbianco1]

Perhaps, Dunc/Matt you think that Blackwell left a decent squad and hence we are not in any sort of trouble. The league table and performances suggest otherwise, but of course you guys know best.

Perhaps Mr Blackwell left behind the best possible squad he could given the rope that was tied around his hands.

Players SOLD / RELEASED - Hulse 1.7m, Shelton 1m, Armstrong 500k, Tonge Undiscl (2m?) Beattie 3.5m Ehiougu, Webber (released, probably to cut age bill?) Naughton & Walker 10m, Carney undsl, Bromby unds, Howard unds, Cotterill 600k, Kilgallon 1.5m? Kenny 750k.

And how much of that was given back to the man to spend on players? £2m on Cotterill, Henderson 1.5m, Evans 750k, Harper, Williamson, Taylor etc.. were all signed for peanuts and yet we still finished 3rd, got to a play off final, finished just outside play offs again last year with the "Injury Jinx."

Now i'm not saying he shouldn't have been sacked but for god sake, there's not many managers that would have got the points he did under the restraints he had.

Blame the board for the squad, not Blackwell

 

[lenners]

Absolutely right on every point, Furphy. As long as the criticism is constructive.

But doing it on an internet forum is pretty pointless. What is needed is a mass movement, as BIFA was in the 90s but ceased to be pretty well as soon as Brealey went, with a wide enough support that the club HAS to take notice. All this place does is allow people to vent spleen, and although you will get the odd comment of "the club probably reads this" the reality is that the knocking comments on here do exactly zero to bring about any positive change whatsoever.

I would imagine that actually the club does very much notice what's said on fans' forums as a barometer of thinking.
They'd be a remarkably daft business not to.

 

[shorehamview]

Commenting on the reality of United's situation is hardly negative.

Being negative about every single thing is hardly original though, is it? It's like a stuck record. "United are shit, this club is shit, everything is shit." I know United aren't going to win a trophy anytime soon, because they haven't in the years I've been going, unless you count the Fourth Division or the odd Steel City Cup bollocks. I hope one day they do, but I don't demand it like some divine right.

Getting an answer in either the negative or positive from certain posters is like trying to nail jelly to the ceiling though. And there are certain posters on this forum who will never ever accept that somebody else's point of view might be valid, and they believe that they are always right regardless of the fact that it's only an opinion, and therefore subjective and possibly even subject to questioning.

Not all posters are of the Big Mart "I'm always correct because I say so" view, but a few are, admittedly without plumbing the depths of of buffoonery and sheer fuckwitedness that our now banned cross-dresser managed, but there are that small few that can only ever see the bad in something, and only raise their heads to criticise, yet seem to disappear when there is something good to shout about, and will never ever admit to being wrong about anything.

This is meant to be something that we enjoy, and if you can't enjoy the football then at least try and enjoy the surrounding parts of it. There's no need to be a Grade A Miserable Bastard all the time, but then again grinning like a lunatic at every single thing the club does won't help either. Perhaps there might be some middle ground that can be found where people are allowed to find the good in things now and again?

If all I went to the football for was to watch a team play scintillating football and win lots I'd have emigrated to Manchester a long time ago.

I know United are, basically, a second-tier team. I've been watching them for long enough to accept that. I don't cry like a girl when we lose, and us losing doesn't totally ruin my week like it used to. I really hope like hell that one day we'll be up in the top flight competing for the title, but I don't demand it along with the moon on a stick.

It's about reality, and whereas I don't like what's happening to the club now I don't witter on and on about it like the DJ Eeyore 12" remix of "I'm a fucking misery and I'm always right about every fucking thing in the world because I'm me."

I know we're shit at the moment, but until I win the Euromillions or find the world's biggest gas supply at the bottom of my garden then there's fuck-all I can personally do to change either the way the team plays or the way the club is run, and you know what? I don't lose any sleep over it, and my blood pressure doesn't go through the roof every time we let a goal in or sell a player, and I don't even get too agitated when I see Ryan France called a "footballer" and not a "wage thief".

It's all about balance.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I would imagine that actually the club does very much notice what's said on fans' forums as a barometer of thinking.
They'd be a remarkably daft business not to.

I'm sure they take notice of it, but will feel no need whatsoever to act on it because I have rarely, if ever, seen any of the knockers offer anything constructive about what, realistically given the club's situation, should happen. The criticism is never constructive, in the sense that it puts forward an alternative, unless it is done with hindsight, about what should have happened, as opposed to what should happen now. It is just criticism, and, as such, is pointless.

 

[shorehamview]

I'm sure they take notice of it, but will feel no need whatsoever to act on it because I have rarely, if ever, seen any of the knockers offer anything constructive about what, realistically given the club's situation, should happen. The criticism is never constructive, in the sense that it puts forward an alternative, unless it is done with hindsight, about what should have happened, as opposed to what should happen now. It is just criticism, and, as such, is pointless.

Imagine Kevin McCabe reading this forum -

KM - "Trevor, Big Mary on that interweb says we're shit."

TB - "Oh well then sire, best we all run off to Timbuctoo now your worshipfulness."

KM - "Fuck that for a game of stormtroopers Trev, I'm not shifting from this keyboard until Lenners and Beightonblade have told me how to run MY football club. I live for their wisdom, me."

TB - "Prithee sire, who owns the freehold?"

KM - "And you can fuck off with that too Trev. Where's my Peter's Pie anyway? The Swan and Dolphin flavour one?"

TB - "Alas my lord, I gave them all to Happyhippy, to persuade him to return to the hallowed ground."

KM - "Good plan, underling. Now, where's that new manager? Barry? BARRY!!!???"

GS - "Here I am boss, look you."

KM - "Get them wastrels playing proper football Barry. Fucking sharpish."

GS - "It's Gary sir. Yes, Mr. Chairman, sir. Will do sir. Has Foxy sorted the thanks button out yet sir?"

KM - "Has he fuck. He's too busy gelling his bloody hair. Anyway, bugger off the pair of you. Keenzy has just put a new link on and I want to see what it is."

TB - "Bet you the freehold it's octopus porn, again."

KM - "OUT!!!"



Something like that, I reckon.

 

[lenners]

I'm sure they take notice of it, but will feel no need whatsoever to act on it because I have rarely, if ever, seen any of the knockers offer anything constructive about what, realistically given the club's situation, should happen. The criticism is never constructive, in the sense that it puts forward an alternative, unless it is done with hindsight, about what should have happened, as opposed to what should happen now. It is just criticism, and, as such, is pointless.

That makes no sense. Criticism nearly always involves an alternative.
For example, United have over-charged for season-tickets, failed to market them and are now over-charging for 'cheap' tickets.
This has been pointed out and the alternative is clearly to charge lower prices and to market the club far more effectively.
This, for example - as was pointed out at the time - does not involve holding fans forums where comments such as Billy Sharp being part of the future are made by the club's chairman.
It should involve clear direction from the top - as has been pointed out.
The failings and alternatives are clearly expressed - I think you might be commenting on what you imagine is written, not what actually is.

 

[lenners]

Shoreham,
When you say: "Being negative about every single thing is hardly original though, is it? It's like a stuck record. "United are shit, this club is shit, everything is shit..." you've lost the argument before you've virtually opened your mouth.
No-one has said that.

 

[mattbianco1]

SV that is "Officially F*cking Ace!"

 

[shorehamview]

Shoreham,
When you say: "Being negative about every single thing is hardly original though, is it? It's like a stuck record. "United are shit, this club is shit, everything is shit..." you've lost the argument before you've virtually opened your mouth.
No-one has said that.

len, No one has said that word for word, except me just then, but they might as well have done.

And I'm not arguing. Argument would imply that you have a point of view that is relevant, but of course you don't, because I am always right, because I say so.

Fucking annoying, isn't it?

Accept that there might be people who disagree with you once in a fucking while.

You don't have to like it, but it won't go away lenners, no matter how many times you tell us all you are correct.

 

[shorehamview]

SV that is "Officially F*cking Ace!"

You don't have to tell me I'm fucking ace. I already know.

 

[lenners]

len, No one has said that word for word, except me just then, but they might as well have done.

And I'm not arguing. Argument would imply that you have a point of view that is relevant, but of course you don't, because I am always right, because I say so.

Fucking annoying, isn't it?

Accept that there might be people who disagree with you once in a fucking while.

You don't have to like it, but it won't go away lenners, no matter how many times you tell us all you are correct.

I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me.
That I'm pretty much always right is a matter of public record but I have no problem with people disagreeing.
They usually come round in the end.

 

[mattbianco1]

You don't have to tell me I'm fucking ace. I already know.

That's cos us 'clappers' are always right about everything, never wrong. Full f*cking stop .

 

[Nick Jansky]

That makes no sense. Criticism nearly always involves an alternative.
For example, United have over-charged for season-tickets, failed to market them and are now over-charging for 'cheap' tickets.
This has been pointed out and the alternative is clearly to charge lower prices and to market the club far more effectively.
This, for example - as was pointed out at the time - does not involve holding fans forums where comments such as Billy Sharp being part of the future are made by the club's chairman.
It should involve clear direction from the top - as has been pointed out.
The failings and alternatives are clearly expressed - I think you might be commenting on what you imagine is written, not what actually is.

No, I think you are wrong, the failings are certainly clearly expressed, but the alternatives are not. And bear in mind that I am not just talking about you personally here.

I agree with your thoughts on tickets, but again, you are criticizing after the event at which point it is too late for your offered alternative to happen, other than on the marketing side of things admittedly, without either pissing off everybody who bought a season ticket before they lowered the prices, or handing them refunds which has the potential (if they don't subsequently sell enough tickets to compensate) of buggering up an already seriously stretched budget. I would imagine that a football person of the calibre & experience of TB (and I rate him so far) may have weighed up a number of options before the prices were finally set and, taking into account the number of renewers that the club thought it could count on even at the hiked prices, decided that this was in the best interests of the club's finances. He might be right, he might be wrong, I guess we'll have a better idea once this year's accounts are published. But do you not think it is likely that the prices were a calculated business decision that might prove to be the right one, on the basis that the club knew it would piss off the fans, but in the majority of cases not enough for them not to renew, which would then justify the higher prices in terms of overall income generation? So it is not necessarily as black & white as just reducing the prices. As it happens I agree with you, but I don't agree that the alternatives are always as clear as you imagine them to be.

I also agree with you that the Fans Forums are pretty useless, but what alternative structure would you put forward for establishing a forum for proper two way dialogue between the club and the general fan base?

And to turn your final comment around, I think you might imagine that the message you intend to put across in your posts isn't actually being lost in the tone & manner you have chosen to adopt.

 

[bricktop]

I also agree with you that the Fans Forums are pretty useless, but what alternative structure would you put forward for establishing a forum for proper two way dialogue between the club and the general fan base?

Make Lenners Spokesperson


:kissass::kissass::kissass:opo:opo::gallop:


:gallop: :gallop:

:gallop:

 

[happyhippy]

KM - "And you can fuck off with that too Trev. Where's my Peter's Pie anyway? The Swan and Dolphin flavour one?"

TB - "Alas my lord, I gave them all to Happyhippy, to persuade him to return to the hallowed ground."

Fuck off. I'm full.

 

[Grecian2000]

Can't we merge this thread with the "Witch Hunt" one and we can everything all in seven glorious pages.

Clappers, knockers, pissing contests, grammar and spelling pisstakes, flouncing, abuse, sarcasm, et al.

Fantastic stuff, shame we have to get back to watching the football again so soon. Can't wait for the International break to give us a full fortnight of hate.

 

[lenners]

NickJ,
I'm sure it was a calculated business decision - but it was one they misjudged as was pointed out at the time.
There were several people who said so.
It was also said at the time that direction was lacking from the top - and this was the real key to season tickets and gates dropping so drastically.
Not many people believe in what the club says anymore and when you get to that stage you will get a lot of people thinking this club doesn't care about us - and they walk away.
It isn't about being wise after the event - a lot of people could see what was coming. They knew it from friends and family.
As for fans forums, they will only work if you really say something at them.
I don't think you really need them if your chairman or chief executive regularly communicate what is going on - and are straight about it.
The chairman now says virtually nothing - despite being at the match when Blackwell was sacked and at Speed's first game.
The chief executive also says very little other than a belated attempt to beg for fans to come to games (when it's too late) or to say a few words when Speed was appointed.
As much as individual marketing initiatives, this is what really counts.

 

[Ollessendro]

That's cos us 'clappers' are always right about everything, never wrong. Full f*cking stop .

thought you weren't reading or replying to any posts or threads started by 'sunshine band' mambers?

 

[Ollessendro]

Perhaps Mr Blackwell left behind the best possible squad he could given the rope that was tied around his hands.

Players SOLD / RELEASED - Hulse 1.7m, Shelton 1m, Armstrong 500k, Tonge Undiscl (2m?) Beattie 3.5m Ehiougu, Webber (released, probably to cut age bill?) Naughton & Walker 10m, Carney undsl, Bromby unds, Howard unds, Cotterill 600k, Kilgallon 1.5m? Kenny 750k.

And how much of that was given back to the man to spend on players? £2m on Cotterill, Henderson 1.5m, Evans 750k, Harper, Williamson, Taylor etc.. were all signed for peanuts and yet we still finished 3rd, got to a play off final, finished just outside play offs again last year with the "Injury Jinx."

Now i'm not saying he shouldn't have been sacked but for god sake, there's not many managers that would have got the points he did under the restraints he had.

Blame the board for the squad, not Blackwell

I can't believe that someone is still coming and supporting Blackwell after the state he left our club in. I know you are aiming to clap your way up to Dunc's side, but this is ridiculous. Blackwell had a fantastic squad to work with (at the start) and he achieved nothing. As the rug was pulled from under him (i.e. players being sold) he got to really stamp his authority on the squad/team. The team is his know. They are pretty much all his signings and they are not good enough. You can argue about players being sold and funds available, but the fact is that Blackwell built a squad that is not good enough. That's the bottom line.

 

[Micalijo]

Perhaps Mr Blackwell left behind the best possible squad he could given the rope that was tied around his hands.

Players SOLD / RELEASED - Hulse 1.7m, Shelton 1m, Armstrong 500k, Tonge Undiscl (2m?) Beattie 3.5m Ehiougu, Webber (released, probably to cut age bill?) Naughton & Walker 10m, Carney undsl, Bromby unds, Howard unds, Cotterill 600k, Kilgallon 1.5m? Kenny 750k.

And how much of that was given back to the man to spend on players? £2m on Cotterill, Henderson 1.5m, Evans 750k, Harper, Williamson, Taylor etc.. were all signed for peanuts and yet we still finished 3rd, got to a play off final, finished just outside play offs again last year with the "Injury Jinx."

Now i'm not saying he shouldn't have been sacked but for god sake, there's not many managers that would have got the points he did under the restraints he had.

Blame the board for the squad, not Blackwell

This is truly unbelievable stuff.

Ask most managers in our section if Blackwell had alot of money to spend on fees/wages compared with them.

Evans did not and has not cost us a mere £750k - read what Trev said at the forum.

 

[super_pig]

same sheep.. different shepherd.. the shepherd will have some job on to organise these sheep i can tell you.. i'm coming to the conclusion that i don't give a monkeys if we get relegated because then monty and quinn will be bought off us by one of their many admirers :-/.. that would make it worth it

 

[Nick Jansky]

As for fans forums, they will only work if you really say something at them.
I don't think you really need them if your chairman or chief executive regularly communicate what is going on - and are straight about it.
The chairman now says virtually nothing - despite being at the match when Blackwell was sacked and at Speed's first game.
The chief executive also says very little other than a belated attempt to beg for fans to come to games (when it's too late) or to say a few words when Speed was appointed.
As much as individual marketing initiatives, this is what really counts.

I fully agree with all of the above, and communication is a big issue for the club at the moment. We get little other than platitudes & soundbites, and very little of any substance at all. This includes the Fans Forums.

What I would really like to see is the establishment of a Supporters Trust with the ultimate aim of securing a seat, voting or otherwise, on the board via its shareholding. This has worked very successfully at other clubs, and would undoubtedly help with engendering a proper 2 way communication between club & fanbase. Being a relative newcomer to the forum I am not sure if the idea has been mooted on here previously. What do you think of the idea?

 

[lenners]

I fully agree with all of the above, and communication is a big issue for the club at the moment. We get little other than platitudes & soundbites, and very little of any substance at all. This includes the Fans Forums.

What I would really like to see is the establishment of a Supporters Trust with the ultimate aim of securing a seat, voting or otherwise, on the board via its shareholding. This has worked very successfully at other clubs, and would undoubtedly help with engendering a proper 2 way communication between club & fanbase. Being a relative newcomer to the forum I am not sure if the idea has been mooted on here previously. What do you think of the idea?

I support fans involvement in clubs, trusts etc but I do think that ultimately you do come back to who's got the power.
Looking across the city, Wednesdayite own plenty of shares and though it gives them some leverage in reality it all comes back to the debts and the bank.
In general, it does seem like football's heading for a major reality check. Gates are dropping everywhere and the obscene wages players are getting is riling more and more people.
Admission at United should be no more than £15 for the best seats and £10 on the kop. It's ridiculous to be charging what we - and other clubs - do for very average 2nd division football.

 

[mattbianco1]

thought you weren't reading or replying to any posts or threads started by 'sunshine band' mambers?

No, i said i'm not even going to bother opening new ones.

As the rug was pulled from under him (i.e. players being sold) he got to really stamp his authority on the squad/team. The team is his know.

Where would we be if the rug hadn't been pulled from under him? I seem to remember a late play off push when we were looking at relegation & i'm sure we had a day out in North London sometime in May last year. How many points behind 2nd did we finish that season? You tell me.

I think the carpet would still be clean. Try it in your house mate, see if your hallway gets dirty when you remove the mat to wipe your feet on.

 

[Wobbly Blade]

is that rhetorical?

 

[Grecian2000]

Is it logical?

 

[Ollessendro]

No, i said i'm not even going to bother opening new ones.



Where would we be if the rug hadn't been pulled from under him? I seem to remember a late play off push when we were looking at relegation & i'm sure we had a day out in North London sometime in May last year. How many points behind 2nd did we finish that season? You tell me.

I think the carpet would still be clean. Try it in your house mate, see if your hallway gets dirty when you remove the mat to wipe your feet on.

I'm absolutely flabbergasted that even you are still defending Blackwell. I seem to remember you being a whisker away from running around Sheffield naked because Super Kev took us through a truly awful run of games. You were saved by luck and some terrible refereeing decision, as Barnsley (yes the fucking Dingles) tore us to shreds last night. Still you continue to defend this inept manager. Someone who bludgened a good team, failed in every aspect, took al the fighting spirirt out of the club and fully established us as hoof merchants.

Blackwell had a great squad to work with all 3 (or 2 and a half) seasons he was in charge. The season you talk about were we LOST at Wembeley (with a pathetic performance). I can't remember exqactly, but ti think we finished 4 points behind Birmingham. A decent manager would have had us in second. Birmingham were shocking that year and limped over the finsih line. They were there for the taking and we flopped. That season was NOT a success. We ended up with nothing. Did you have a nice day out in North London Matt? How was it after 3pm? Nice jounrey home? The football was unnattractive (although I admit effective) but Blackwell was lucky to have such a fantastic defence. Funnily enough Cotterill was the best player of the 2nd half of the season, after KB reluctantly started to play him.

 

[mattbianco1]

Gary Speed's got a 0% win record, shall we start on him too?

 

[JohnDenver]

Gary Speed's got a 0% win record, shall we start on him too?

Sod it. Let's go. Bring him in.

I've supported that useless clown Robson, the ego-centric gob on legs Warnock, and the crushingly dull Blackwell. I've got enough bile stored up to fill a bath tub. Shame to waste it...

 

[Grecian2000]

Gary Speed's got a 0% win record, shall we start on him too?

Knock yourself out. I'd personally give him more time.