Change in Style of Play

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

I was too young for Bassett, but remember warnock and blackwell years. I agree burnley and newcastle hoof it, but newcastle have the technical ability to play it more than we do. The have some very good players in their squad. The rest of the league all play with it on the ground a lot more than us.

Ive just looked at the official stats to see if i'm out of touch and infact they back me up. For long balls we are top of the league, above burnley, comfortably above newcaslte etc.

For completed passes we are 15th, so our passing game in genenral is pretty poor. In amount of shots we are 20th, but goals conceded and clean sheets we are right up there with the best.

So this tells us, we 100% are launching the ball forward, we do it way more than any other team despite the fact our completed passes is so low. Proportionally long balls make up a huge amount of our game.

In an attacking sense we are poor, we create very few opportunities, this could very well be down to being so wasteful in possession. Our defensive ability is our strength and our attacking/possession based game is our weakeat.

My point is that to progress as a club we need not be less wasteful with the ball. We need to be ambitious, ambition got us where we are today and the second we stop we will fall. I think a mixed style is right for us now but we are too reliant on it at the moment and if we want to score more goals and be better in possession/create more chances we will need to be less wasteful especially moving forward as a club.

I would imagine that the ball played by Lundstram to Mousset v Everton was classed as a long ball, the numerous switches we do each week from JOC or Bash to Baldock and Enda are long balls, the pings from Norwood are long balls. It doesn't mean we hoof it.

The one thing we have stopped doing that other teams do is having Hendo pass the ball out from goal kicks, he now invariably goes long. The main reason being that lots of teams have conceded goals by fannying about around their box and at the start of the season we were guilty of giving the ball away a lot in these areas.

I think moaning about us not being safe and hoofing the ball are very negative ways to look at things at the moment. You'll be calling our football 'basic' next.
 



I think the change in style has been quite apparent over recent weeks. Certainly a bit more direct and at times a little aimless and hopeful rather than measured. I'm not sure if this is down to CW or just a collective thing as the players tire towards the end of a grueling season. As someone else pointed out on here, a similar pattern emerged at the end of the last two seasons. Just my observation and not a huge criticism.

Maybe if you stopped checking the in game stats on your phone and actually watched the game, you'd realise we don't 'hoof it'.

We definitely hoofed under Warnock and then Blackwell but that was just aimless stuff down the channels. If you really think what we do now is 'hoof', you need your bumps feeling.

#MadeUpFirstWorldProblems
 
Maybe if you stopped checking the in game stats on your phone and actually watched the game, you'd realise we don't 'hoof it'.

We definitely hoofed under Warnock and then Blackwell but that was just aimless stuff down the channels. If you really think what we do now is 'hoof', you need your bumps feeling.

#MadeUpFirstWorldProblems

Yeh i've never watched a game. You're such a bladey blade for pointing that out, sowell done. Cold hard facts there and a great argument.

Maybe, just maybe, i do watch them, maybe i also watch other games and maybe my opinion is formed by comparing the two. Stats have backed my opinion up. You would have to be pretty stupid to discard the stats as they are nothing but a reflection of our play.

Yes we ping it into the channels nicely sometimes, but we also ping it straight into the opposition as well far too often. I think we are are doing great this season but equally see a lot of places we can still improve!
 
I would imagine that the ball played by Lundstram to Mousset v Everton was classed as a long ball, the numerous switches we do each week from JOC or Bash to Baldock and Enda are long balls, the pings from Norwood are long balls. It doesn't mean we hoof it.

The one thing we have stopped doing that other teams do is having Hendo pass the ball out from goal kicks, he now invariably goes long. The main reason being that lots of teams have conceded goals by fannying about around their box and at the start of the season we were guilty of giving the ball away a lot in these areas.

I think moaning about us not being safe and hoofing the ball are very negative ways to look at things at the moment. You'll be calling our football 'basic' next.

The lunny goal was a through ball, long ball is an aerial ball.

I have nothing against us playing like this when we switch it up. Norwood balls into channels Have been effective and would be stupid to stop that absolutely. The balls that we are lumping to mcburnie aimlessly that totally by pass the midfield are the problem.

As per the OP we have become over reliant on it and recently its become a little 1 dimensional. We used to switch it up a lot more. We are also capable of playing it on
the deck which has been evident in games against man utd etc. So we are capable but we arent chosing to.

Our football is not basic but i've noticed that the standards have certainly dipped recently which may simply be because weve missed didsy to link the play on the deck.
 
Yeh i've never watched a game. You're such a bladey blade for pointing that out, sowell done. Cold hard facts there and a great argument.

Maybe, just maybe, i do watch them, maybe i also watch other games and maybe my opinion is formed by comparing the two. Stats have backed my opinion up. You would have to be pretty stupid to discard the stats as they are nothing but a reflection of our play.

Yes we ping it into the channels nicely sometimes, but we also ping it straight into the opposition as well far too often. I think we are are doing great this season but equally see a lot of places we can still improve!

So what? We are a game in hand away from the champions league.
 
The lunny goal was a through ball, long ball is an aerial ball.

I have nothing against us playing like this when we switch it up. Norwood balls into channels Have been effective and would be stupid to stop that absolutely. The balls that we are lumping to mcburnie aimlessly that totally by pass the midfield are the problem.

As per the OP we have become over reliant on it and recently its become a little 1 dimensional. We used to switch it up a lot more. We are also capable of playing it on
the deck which has been evident in games against man utd etc. So we are capable but we arent chosing to.

Our football is not basic but i've noticed that the standards have certainly dipped recently which may simply be because weve missed didsy to link the play on the deck.

That’s your definition of a long ball, the PL stats might be different. The only time we go long to McBurnie is when we go from Hendo to the front. Our outfield players very rarely play a long ball to the front man. I don’t need stats to tell me that, I have eyes. If you think we hoof it to McBurnie then you need to have a look at what you qualify as a ‘hoof’.
 
So what? We are a game in hand away from the champions league.

it's a good point, and i obviously hope we do. i'm simply pointing out that some people i think are a little blinkered in thinking we are the reincarnation of barca when infact we've outdone burnley for long balls.
 
That’s your definition of a long ball, the PL stats might be different. The only time we go long to McBurnie is when we go from Hendo to the front. Our outfield players very rarely play a long ball to the front man. I don’t need stats to tell me that, I have eyes. If you think we hoof it to McBurnie then you need to have a look at what you qualify as a ‘hoof’.

Your argument - you have eyes, stats are lies.
Cool story 👍
 
Your argument - you have eyes, stats are wrong.
Cool story 👍

I’m suggesting that the reason we are top of these stats is because Hendo doesn’t play short passes and most other teams do.

The difference between us and Burnley/Newcastle is that their outfield players play long balls to big centre forwards. I really can’t recall the last time I saw Egan/Basham/JOC just hoof it to McBurnie.

‘Cool story’, are you 15 and American?!
 
I’m suggesting that the reason we are top of these stats is because Hendo doesn’t play short passes and most other teams do.

The difference between us and Burnley/Newcastle is that their outfield players play long balls to big centre forwards. I really can’t recall the last time I saw Egan/Basham/JOC just hoof it to McBurnie.

‘Cool story’, are you 15 and American?!

i don't think we are going to agree. Honestly Bash egan and oconell are prime offenders for this when i watch them in my opinion so im struggling to understand your view.

Agree with the hendo point though and his distribution from kicks is questionable at times. Makes up for it with his shot stopping ability so i'll spare him.

I think we've been using mcburnie as the big CF which is frustrating because hes actually really handy with the ball at his feet and linking play.
 
Yeh i've never watched a game. You're such a bladey blade for pointing that out, sowell done. Cold hard facts there and a great argument.

Maybe, just maybe, i do watch them, maybe i also watch other games and maybe my opinion is formed by comparing the two. Stats have backed my opinion up.

As I'm sure you well know, stats can be very misleading. We generally have a lower % possession stat than most teams, but that's because we let them fanny about in their own half. Our possession is usually in the final third, which is far more dangerous.

It's nothing to do with being 'Bladey' but more about interpreting statistical information. All you have 'proven' is that the stats say we hit some misplaced long balls.
It doesn't make us a poor team to watch and it most certainly doesn't make us 'hoof', which was your initial silly assertion.

Well done you for watching other games though. 1583486196999.png
 
i don't think we are going to agree. Honestly Bash egan and oconell are prime offenders for this when i watch them in my opinion so im struggling to understand your view.

Agree with the hendo point though and his distribution from kicks is questionable at times. Makes up for it with his shot stopping ability so i'll spare him.

I think we've been using mcburnie as the big CF which is frustrating because hes actually really handy with the ball at his feet and linking play.

You've made me paranoid now so I'm going to buy an anorak ,a notepad and pencil and I'll tick off every time an outfield player plays a long ball tomorrow that isn't an actual pass to a player. I'm not counting cross field switches or Hendo kicks from inside his box.
 
As is the way with threads when they have the appearance of being dense and/or circular, the point is often lost.

In some quarters there seems to be an almost hysterical hatred of any pass that is longer than 10 yards...no idea why, surely the point of football is to seek a team-mate no matter where they happen to be on the pitch? I grew up on a diet of great passers such as the wonderful Johnny Haynes who could send a pass on a sixpence (apologies to those who, through no fault of their own, don't recognise the analogies), and deliver with such accuracy as to cause this wide-eyed youth to consider whether he might be able to emulate his hero.....of course it was just fantasy on my part. As much as I loved football, and still do, I eventually realised that to become a professional footballer required far more than ambition, a modicum of talent was also needed, as was the capacity to combine hard work with said talent and maintain the belief that a canny scout would notice me.

I digress.....the type of pass is unimportant as long as it's the right pass, short, medium, or long, that's all that matters. I've seen posters on this forum wet themselves over the great Italian player, Pirlo. What a player, possessed of the full range of passing talents, and could deliver a pass in whatever way made the recipient's job easier to exploit the situation he found himself in. Often the receiving player didn't have to break their stride, they knew that the pass would be so perfect, weighted so well, as to make their job so much easier.

So why some of us appear hostile to a long pass baffles me. Naturally, if a player attempts something they're not equipped to perform then their ambition will outstrip their talent, and of course those who've paid to witness great skill will get the hump with such a clear failure of talent, but it doesn't mean that the notion of the long pass is wrong, just that the player concerned could never deliver such a pass if they tried this a thousand times over! So please, if you happen to be one of those who too easily deride a long pass, try and consider what a player was intending to achieve...was the recipient unworthy of said pass? If they failed to control/collect said pass then it's their skill that needs to be polished, not that of the player who made the original pass. There is nothing sweeter, more awesome, than a pass that spans 30 yards plus, it's a thing of beauty, it changes the pattern of a game, in short it's worthy of our appreciation rather than to chortle on about 'hoofing' the ball.
 
I digress.....the type of pass is unimportant as long as it's the right pass, short, medium, or long, that's all that matters.... There is nothing sweeter, more awesome, than a pass that spans 30 yards plus, it's a thing of beauty, it changes the pattern of a game, in short it's worthy of our appreciation rather than to chortle on about 'hoofing' the ball.

I agree with you, although I also do think that we've also become a little aimless in the last couple of months as well.

However, what you're saying above, which is 100% right, is exactly what the much maligned F.A. coach of the 1980s Charles Hughes used to say. He was unfairly labelled at the time as an advocate for long ball hoofing of the John Beck, Bobby Gould, Lou Macari and dare I say, Harry Bassett type, but what he proposed is pretty much exactly how the best teams now play today.
 
Are people wanting us to play the short goal kicks when we are squeezed up on the edge of the box?
People don’t know what they want. Our system and the way we play has made our players look better than they actually are. Every manager has worked out that if you press us we can’t play out from the back, we don’t have players who can beat the press.
So we go long so we can push our defence up, make the opponents play through our press and try to win it back in midfield so we can launch an attack.
If the opposition responds by dropping to a low block it then gives us time and space on the ball to start passing it around. If they don’t, we have to keep playing longer balls.
We don’t play like Man City because we don’t have the players who can do it. Bournemouth try to play like Man City, Brighton do, Norwich do. We played like Man City when we were in L1 because we had the best players in that league. We haven’t got the best players in the PL. Just hard working honest ones.
 



People don’t know what they want. Our system and the way we play has made our players look better than they actually are. Every manager has worked out that if you press us we can’t play out from the back, we don’t have players who can beat the press.
So we go long so we can push our defence up, make the opponents play through our press and try to win it back in midfield so we can launch an attack.
If the opposition responds by dropping to a low block it then gives us time and space on the ball to start passing it around. If they don’t, we have to keep playing longer balls.
We don’t play like Man City because we don’t have the players who can do it. Bournemouth try to play like Man City, Brighton do, Norwich do. We played like Man City when we were in L1 because we had the best players in that league. We haven’t got the best players in the PL. Just hard working honest ones.

This.

I’ll also add even Man City on occasion fuck up with the short goal kick but they probably reckon even if that costs them a goal their world class strikers will probably score two or three at the other end.

and I still maintain even in games when we have gone more direct we are far from“hoof”
 
I have given consideration to all aspects and points raised in this thread and have come to the conclusion that it is 100% McBafflings fault 😀.

UTB
 
As I'm sure you well know, stats can be very misleading. We generally have a lower % possession stat than most teams, but that's because we let them fanny about in their own half. Our possession is usually in the final third, which is far more dangerous.

It's nothing to do with being 'Bladey' but more about interpreting statistical information. All you have 'proven' is that the stats say we hit some misplaced long balls.
It doesn't make us a poor team to watch and it most certainly doesn't make us 'hoof', which was your initial silly assertion.

Well done you for watching other games though. View attachment 73126

Look my issue is not using long balls, my issue is using it so often. Norwood pinging a 60 yard cherry onto someones foot is a beautiful sight. Will never have a problem with doing it if we pull it off. My issue is that we are so reliant on it. We use it the most out of any team in the league, fact. We have some of the lowest pass completed rates also.

I feel when we have the option to play it sometimes we often punt an aimless one. I get it, we are new to the league and stabilising but we know we can play it on the deck and it gives us a better chance of gaining control and influence on a game if we do.

Agree that there are a lot of teams who aimlessly pass it around the back 4, again that's equally shit. I just would like us to be more confident on the deck.
 
You've made me paranoid now so I'm going to buy an anorak ,a notepad and pencil and I'll tick off every time an outfield player plays a long ball tomorrow that isn't an actual pass to a player. I'm not counting cross field switches or Hendo kicks from inside his box.

Do it, you might learn something.
 
It was a key reason under Warnock why Jags moved back to CB, he was wasted in midfield and had the athleticism to do a job at the back. Turned out he was pretty good at it.

He wasn’t completely wasted in midfield in 05/06 – plenty of important goals, and Morgs & Short were good at the back for us that season. 06/07 though, if he’d been kept at centre-back all season I suspect we’d have stayed up.

What’s perhaps more inexcusable, based on the 2006/07 games that he presumably had him scouted in, is that David Moyes played him in midfield for the first half of 2007/08. I remember him paired at one point with Phil Neville there...
 
In fairness, yep McBurnie rather than McGoldrick has an effect (as does looking for Moose's pace in the channels) but I'm not sure it's an actual tactic.

It's been a stop/start couple of months hasn't it really?? Enforced weeks off, played the best teams in the league, then cup games with different sides out, new signings to bed in, and some freakish weather. We've played 2 or 3 in genuine gales which of course affects how you play.

Decent results still. I'm sure now we've got a proper run at it (refreshed) we'll settle down again into our normal way of things

BANYARD!
 
Didn’t see much hoof from front to back today, only the goal kicks from Hendo that are standard now. Did anyone else?

Played well first half, mixed it nicely. Second half saw plenty of aimless punts upfront.
 
According to the stats, Norwich played more long balls than us while we made more accurate ones. Also, today we made 177 passes in Norwich's half, compared to 88 in our own. Norwich on the other hand made 266 in their own half and 154 in ours. Definitely not the stats of a long ball team.

It shows how we control play in the opponents half, rather than fannying about at the back. We might go long sometimes but surely everyone is excited by how we're playing at the moment? Our movement and passing around the opponents' penalty box is a joy, couldn't be further away from the hoof of the past.
 
According to the stats, Norwich played more long balls than us while we made more accurate ones. Also, today we made 177 passes in Norwich's half, compared to 88 in our own. Norwich on the other hand made 266 in their own half and 154 in ours. Definitely not the stats of a long ball team.

It shows how we control play in the opponents half, rather than fannying about at the back. We might go long sometimes but surely everyone is excited by how we're playing at the moment? Our movement and passing around the opponents' penalty box is a joy, couldn't be further away from the hoof of the past.

The passing in opposition half stat is a good one, and it's true that we don't tend to fuck about with it when under pressure in our half. I think first half we mixed it really well. We did make less long balls than norwich (8) but we also made 160 less passes overall. Proportionally though when we had the ball we used the long ball more than them. 17% compared to there 13%. Like you pointed out a lot of those extra passes would have been passing around there back line. First half we utilised and mixed it really well. I think second half we could of been a lot better. Another 3 points though against a decent team in good form.
 
Played well first half, mixed it nicely. Second half saw plenty of aimless punts upfront.

Last 15 mins we played a lot of clearances and only had 1 up top. When a team is pushing for a goal towards the end of a game it tends to happen. I’m still denying that we hoof it.
 



All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom