Change in Style of Play

[Breakingblade]

Really interesting thread this, I've been thinking about the same thing.

I saw it as a deliberate thing, CWAK realising that possession doesn't = wins, especially in light of our good away form. Look at the way we got done against So'ton and Newcastle, compared to how we set up against West Ham. I'm sure our play/formation was closer to Brighton away than earlier home matches.

Simply speaking, it's players being less willing to get forward/make risky close passes, meaning more long balls. Defensive solidity at the expense of possession. I'm sure more tactically astute observers will be able to give better insights into this though.

The main thing is that we're riding high in the Premier league, personally I'd take a load of scrappy 1-0 wins to end the season. Let's not forget the difference in budget between us and everyone around us - anything we can do to win is fine by me.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I've noticed this as well. it's not even balanced 50/50 either ATM it is balanced massively in favour of hoofing it. I get that sometimes it has it advantages but it's a shit tactic that 1/2 times wastes possession and in turn invites further pression on us. It's a bit of snowball effect because the more time you spend out of possession in a game the more uncomfortable they are on the ball when they get it back after chasing it down, which means more paniced clearances and shit hoofs.

It's a bad habbit that we should be trying to coach out of the players. It wasnt part of our 'dna' coming through the leagues and earlier on in the season we adapted a balanced approach to it which worked wonders. The last few games have been frustrating to watch and painfully hoofy.

Reading yesterday showed the greater technical ability on the ball and looked a lot more comfortable in possesion playing neat 1-2s and driving with the ball. I personally thought we looked like the championship team in possession - very basic.

In summary - i hate it, once we are safe (another 6/7 points) we should be looking to instill confidence on the ball and revert to attacking fluid footy.

So we 'hoof' it and we aren't safe?

I think you might have lost perspective on things slightly.

I reckon we've just stopped fannying about with it at the back as much, earlier in the season we were guaranteed to give the opposition 1 decent chance per game by getting caught on the ball at the back, we've eradicated this now and are still 8th in the league with a game in hand on those above us.

 

[Dkc]

Once we are safe (another 6/7 points) we should be looking to instill confidence on the ball and revert to attacking fluid footy.

We're safe now, but every game is vital as we are looking to finish as high as we can, and potentially qualify for the European spots. The way we play should depend on the conditions, who is fit and who we are playing.

 

[SUFCinks]

So we 'hoof' it and we aren't safe?

I think you might have lost perspective on things slightly.

I reckon we've just stopped fannying about with it at the back as much, earlier in the season we were guaranteed to give the opposition 1 decent chance per game by getting caught on the ball at the back, we've eradicated this now and are still 8th in the league with a game in hand on those above us.

We definately arent safe yet, the league this year is so tight and although we are having a fantastic season and in 8th it would only take a few losses and teams beneath us a few wins and we are right in the mix.

Yes we do hoof it, not as much as we have in the past, but compared to 90% of the league we are direct.

I would argue that you are always stronger in possession, as you can't score and can only concede. I think being overly direct often leads to giving the opposition the ball back and inviting more pressure on ourselves. I agree possession across the back line is pointless but also smashing it long is an easy way for the opposition to regain control, the midfield and forwards need to link the play on the floor a lot more.

 

[ucandomagic]

There are only 3 ways of winning - round, over or through, and we have to adapt and use different ways depending how the opposition set up.

Mousse is crap with his back to goal - and so he wasn’t suited to the Reading game. When teams sit back like Reading you need a team of Silva’s to play through them or else create 50/50 balls and pick up the pieces.

Away at Citeh or Liverpool, who come at you, there is space for a ball to be played in front of Mousse to run onto, and that is when he has been at his most lethal.

Different jobs, different tools - you can’t drill a hole with a hammer.

Magic comes in many different forms.

 

[Houston_Blade]

We definately arent safe yet, the league this year is so tight and although we are having a fantastic season and in 8th it would only take a few losses and teams beneath us a few wins and we are right in the mix.

Yes we do hoof it, not as much as we have in the past, but compared to 90% of the league we are direct.

I would argue that you are always stronger in possession, as you can't score and can only concede. I think being overly direct often leads to giving the opposition the ball back and inviting more pressure on ourselves. I agree possession across the back line is pointless but also smashing it long is an easy way for the opposition to regain control, the midfield and forwards need to link the play on the floor a lot more.

If you think we hoof it I'm assuming you haven't seen us in the Basset/Warnock/Blackwell years? Newcastle and Burnley hoof it, we don't.

We aren't mathematically safe, however if we go down from this position I'll donate £100 to a charity of your choice. We aren't going to get dragged into any kind of scrap unless you think that the bottom teams are going to win a load of games, contrary to what they've managed all season so far.

The team in possession is normally in the best position in a football match, however it isn't the be all and end all. City had 80% last night and scored 1 goal. We had 30% at Everton and won 2 nil.

 

[BushBlade]

If you think we hoof it I'm assuming you haven't seen us in the Basset/Warnock/Blackwell years? Newcastle and Burnley hoof it, we don't.

We aren't mathematically safe, however if we go down from this position I'll donate £100 to a charity of your choice. We aren't going to get dragged into any kind of scrap unless you think that the bottom teams are going to win a load of games, contrary to what they've managed all season so far.

The team in possession is normally in the best position in a football match, however it isn't the be all and end all. City had 80% last night and scored 1 goal. We had 30% at Everton and won 2 nil.

Please don’t suggest the football we played under Bassett was like most of the turgid shit served up under that chubby loser.
Under Bassett we played with two strikers and the aim was to get the ball to them as quickly as possible and create as many chances as possible. It was basic but exciting.
Blackwell was a ‘kill the game and nick one’ manager, horrible anti football.
And Bassett signed players to do specific jobs. I’ve still no idea what Blackwell was trying to achieve with his recruitment and I’ll never be convinced that he did either.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Please don’t suggest the football we played under Bassett was like most of the turgid shit served up under that chubby loser.
Under Bassett we played with two strikers and the aim was to get the ball to them as quickly as possible and create as many chances as possible. It was basic but exciting.
Blackwell was a ‘kill the game and nick one’ manager, horrible anti football.
And Bassett signed players to do specific jobs. I’ve still no idea what Blackwell was trying to achieve with his recruitment and I’ll never be convinced that he did either.

I'm not suggesting Bassets football was bad, it was extremely effective with the players we had and entertaining to me as a young kid at the time.

Blackwell's version of hoof was full on hoof in the way that you may as well not bother with a midfield.

 

[elgoog44]

I think the way we can mix it up with different styles and have a few plans, shows why we are where we are.

we only have to think back to the Adkins season, to remember at that time we had no plan A, B or C, and substitution by the look of when and how they happened must have been drawn out of a hat!

with Mr Wilder, we have a few plans and can change shape with out substitutions and everyone still know the job they should do

 

[elgoog44]

I'm not suggesting Bassets football was bad, it was extremely effective with the players we had and entertaining to me as a young kid at the time.

Blackwell's version of hoof was full on hoof in the way that you may as well not bother with a midfield.

I always wondered, if the biggest injures the midfield got under Blackwell was neck strain, from watching it fly over head so many times during the game!

 

[Houston_Blade]

I always wondered, if the biggest injures the midfield got under Blackwell was neck strain, from watching it fly over head so many times during the game!

It was a key reason under Warnock why Jags moved back to CB, he was wasted in midfield and had the athleticism to do a job at the back. Turned out he was pretty good at it.

 

[Roygbiv]

We definately arent safe yet, the league this year is so tight and although we are having a fantastic season and in 8th it would only take a few losses and teams beneath us a few wins and we are right in the mix.

Yes we do hoof it, not as much as we have in the past, but compared to 90% of the league we are direct.

I would argue that you are always stronger in possession, as you can't score and can only concede. I think being overly direct often leads to giving the opposition the ball back and inviting more pressure on ourselves. I agree possession across the back line is pointless but also smashing it long is an easy way for the opposition to regain control, the midfield and forwards need to link the play on the floor a lot more.

We are safe. We could lose every game and be safe.

 

[elgoog44]

It was a key reason under Warnock why Jags moved back to CB, he was wasted in midfield and had the athleticism to do a job at the back. Turned out he was pretty good at it.

You could see it in Jags early on that he was better than we were at the time, loves those years, Brownie & tonge, Ndlovu, but Jags was always that touch above, a classy and talented player.

 

[SUFCinks]

If you think we hoof it I'm assuming you haven't seen us in the Basset/Warnock/Blackwell years? Newcastle and Burnley hoof it, we don't.

We aren't mathematically safe, however if we go down from this position I'll donate £100 to a charity of your choice. We aren't going to get dragged into any kind of scrap unless you think that the bottom teams are going to win a load of games, contrary to what they've managed all season so far.

The team in possession is normally in the best position in a football match, however it isn't the be all and end all. City had 80% last night and scored 1 goal. We had 30% at Everton and won 2 nil.

I was too young for Bassett, but remember warnock and blackwell years. I agree burnley and newcastle hoof it, but newcastle have the technical ability to play it more than we do. The have some very good players in their squad. The rest of the league all play with it on the ground a lot more than us.

Ive just looked at the official stats to see if i'm out of touch and infact they back me up. For long balls we are top of the league, above burnley, comfortably above newcaslte etc.

For completed passes we are 15th, so our passing game in genenral is pretty poor. In amount of shots we are 20th, but goals conceded and clean sheets we are right up there with the best.

So this tells us, we 100% are launching the ball forward, we do it way more than any other team despite the fact our completed passes is so low. Proportionally long balls make up a huge amount of our game.

In an attacking sense we are poor, we create very few opportunities, this could very well be down to being so wasteful in possession. Our defensive ability is our strength and our attacking/possession based game is our weakeat.

My point is that to progress as a club we need not be less wasteful with the ball. We need to be ambitious, ambition got us where we are today and the second we stop we will fall. I think a mixed style is right for us now but we are too reliant on it at the moment and if we want to score more goals and be better in possession/create more chances we will need to be less wasteful especially moving forward as a club.

 

[SUFCinks]

.

 

[CornwallBlade]

It is difficult to play passing football in March and April when pitches are bobbly and unpredictable after the winter months.

Haha! Those were the days! Just look at old Matches from the 70’s. To win the, then, 1st division, teams had to master rock hard late summer pitches, winter quagmires and your nobbly spring pitches. Kids today

 

[Harry's Game]

We definately arent safe yet, the league this year is so tight and although we are having a fantastic season and in 8th it would only take a few losses and teams beneath us a few wins and we are right in the mix.

Yes we do hoof it, not as much as we have in the past, but compared to 90% of the league we are direct.

I would argue that you are always stronger in possession, as you can't score and can only concede. I think being overly direct often leads to giving the opposition the ball back and inviting more pressure on ourselves. I agree possession across the back line is pointless but also smashing it long is an easy way for the opposition to regain control, the midfield and forwards need to link the play on the floor a lot more.

We are safe,

We don’t hoof it... what are the posssion stats last three games?

I will give you credit for being at least being honest about your feelings, but it is feeding into a false narrative that some are jumping all over especially on shout box.

I am starting to find the criticism and the snide digs from a few other lately getting a little tiresome.

 

[Dnblade]

I'm ok with us mixing it up a bit and the weather conditions haven't been great...but nearly everytime we go long,we lose the ball...it's not as though we are incapable of playing out from the back at times...The ball goes back to Hendo,we push up,turn and face...Hendo punts it up,and the opposition get the ball back...If I remember right Maupay's goal was a prime example of that...a Hendo punt,Brighton win the ball,3 passes later it's in the back of our net...Just an observation,i'm not knocking the lads or CW,but don't think it's been very effective.

 

[CornwallBlade]

I was too young for Bassett, but remember warnock and blackwell years. I agree burnley and newcastle hoof it, but newcastle have the technical ability to play it more than we do. The have some very good players in their squad. The rest of the league all play with it on the ground a lot more than us.

Ive just looked at the official stats to see if i'm out of touch and infact they back me up. For long balls we are top of the league, above burnley, comfortably above newcaslte etc.

For completed passes we are 15th, so our passing game in genenral is pretty poor. In amount of shots we are 20th, but goals conceded and clean sheets we are right up there with the best.

So this tells us, we 100% are launching the ball forward, we do it way more than any other team despite the fact our completed passes is so low. Proportionally long balls make up a huge amount of our game.

In an attacking sense we are poor, we create very few opportunities, this could very well be down to being so wasteful in possession. Our defensive ability is our strength and our attacking/possession based game is our weakeat.

My point is that to progress as a club we need not be less wasteful with the ball. We need to be ambitious, ambition got us where we are today and the second we stop we will fall. I think a mixed style is right for us now but we are too reliant on it at the moment and if we want to score more goals and be better in possession/create more chances we will need to be less wasteful especially moving forward as a club.

This! You’ll get some who crucify you for daring to doubt our style “lord knows how we’re on the verge of CL etc.” But we have to improve in our ability to play on the deck and create and finish next season

 

[Harry's Game]

Are people wanting us to play the short goal kicks when we are squeezed up on the edge of the box?

 

[blademark]

Not mathematically safe, but you can get odds of up to 1000/1 against.
Conversely we are 14/1 to get a CL spot, and 11/4 to finish top 6.
We have as much chance of being runners up than going down.

 

[SUFCinks]

We are safe,

We don’t hoof it... what are the posssion stats last three games?

I will give you credit for being at least being honest about your feelings, but it is feeding into a false narrative that some are jumping all over especially on shout box.

I am starting to find the criticism and the snide digs from a few other lately getting a little tiresome.

We hoof it mate - look at the official premier league stats, top of the prem and ahead of king hoofers burnley, thats a fact.

It will serve us well this season but as others have suggested we need to evolve and be less reliant on it, great to have in the locker but in the champions league/europa i think we will get dominated every game. We need to create more opportunities and the key to that will be a more varied/balanced possession game that includes more intricate passing.

 

[Harry's Game]

We hoof it mate - look at the official premier league stats, top of the prem and ahead of king hoofers burnley, thats a fact.

It will serve us well this season but as others have suggested we need to evolve and be less reliant on it, great to have in the locker but in the champions league/europa i think we will get dominated every game. We need to create more opportunities and the key to that will be a more varied/balanced possession game that includes more intricate passing.

That stat includes the long raking 40 yard cross field balls.

totally misleading.

 

[SUFCinks]

That stat includes the long raking 40 yard cross field balls.

totally misleading.

Not that misleading when we are also near the bottom of the passes completed table for the league. Easy one to work out.

 

[gordoncharles]

Ive just looked at the official stats to see if i'm out of touch and infact they back me up. For long balls we are top of the league, above burnley, comfortably above newcaslte etc.

For completed passes we are 15th, so our passing game in genenral is pretty poor. In amount of shots we are 20th, but goals conceded and clean sheets we are right up there with the best.

So this tells us, we 100% are launching the ball forward, we do it way more than any other team despite the fact our completed passes is so low. Proportionally long balls make up a huge amount of our game.

In an attacking sense we are poor, we create very few opportunities, this could very well be down to being so wasteful in possession. Our defensive ability is our strength and our attacking/possession based game is our weakeat.

I think in general you're right, and we've gone long since Christmas for sure, but you're also missing some other key indicators.

Shots means very little on its own. There's barely any danger from a hopeful, misdirected effort from 25 yards but it gets recorded as if it was some sort of genuine attempt on goal.

In crosses we're actually 4th in the league. I'd say the majority of our crosses are not just hopeful long diagonals but from moves where we've worked it down to near the byline with the trademark overload.

We're also 4th in "big chances missed" which, together with the "shots" stat means we're not getting on the end of a lot of dangerous crosses. We've only scored twice all season from headers.

So, we're not as bad going forward as those figures initially suggested. We have not been finishing.

 

[Dnblade]

I'm ok with us mixing it up a bit and the weather conditions haven't been great...but nearly everytime we go long,we lose the ball...it's not as though we are incapable of playing out from the back at times...The ball goes back to Hendo,we push up,turn and face...Hendo punts it up,and the opposition get the ball back...If I remember right Maupay's goal was a prime example of that...a Hendo punt,Brighton win the ball,3 passes later it's in the back of our net...Just an observation,i'm not knocking the lads or CW,but don't think it's been very effective.

Ahhh...not the Maupay goal,my memory is getting worse..I meant Frazer nearly scoring for Bournemouth came from Hendo kicking long and us losing possession and nearly cost us...Maupay's was from a Free Kick ofcourse,I remember now.

 

[S40BLADE]

Like I've said non stop since first match of preseason the lack of a number 10 behind the two lads up front encourages longer balls and increases the likelihood of losing possession so much more. Just a good job we are immense defensively.

 

[Jan Age]

You could see it in Jags early on that he was better than we were at the time, loves those years, Brownie & tonge, Ndlovu, but Jags was always that touch above, a classy and talented player.

I remember him breaking in to the 1st team and it was like watching a Rolls Royce amongst Ford Escorts

 

[Jan Age]

I’m more concerned looking at next season that we need to score more goals. Draws can easily become losses and wins draws. We can’t always rely on the the defence doing such a grand job!

 

[I should coco]

We hoof it mate - look at the official premier league stats, top of the prem and ahead of king hoofers burnley, thats a fact.

Maybe if you stopped checking the in game stats on your phone and actually watched the game, you'd realise we don't 'hoof it'.

We definitely hoofed under Warnock and then Blackwell but that was just aimless stuff down the channels. If you really think what we do now is 'hoof', you need your bumps feeling.

#MadeUpFirstWorldProblems