SUFC England hopefuls

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YES Blade said:
The Premier League contributes billions in tax to the UK government, so I’m sure they will make a special case for football and footballers in terms of immigration.

Why would the government rock the boat and hamper one of countries biggest exports? It would only allow Spain, Italy or Germany to increase their tax revenues at our expense.
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We had a vote. Get Brexit done. It was in the papers.
 

YES Blade said:
When did anyone mention Premier League footballers in the brexit debate?
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I think you probably already know they didn't.
But, I also think you know the country voted to leave the EU. And hence remove the automatic rights of EU citizens to have freedom of labour in the UK. That means we will have to have new regulations for workers from EU countries. Including nurses. Including plumbers. Including footballers.
The idea that money makes the Premier League & footballers immune from labour laws is simply not true. We have a long established & well understood set of regulations which already restrict which foreign national footballers can gain work permits.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I think you probably already know they didn't.
But, I also think you know the country voted to leave the EU. And hence remove the automatic rights of EU citizens to have freedom of labour in the UK. That means we will have to have new regulations for workers from EU countries. Including nurses. Including plumbers. Including footballers.
The idea that money makes the Premier League & footballers immune from labour laws is simply not true. We have a long established & well understood set of regulations which already restrict which foreign national footballers can gain work permits.
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Money talks

www.premierleague.com

Success of Premier League a boost for UK, finds report

EY study stresses importance of League to UK economy, contributing £3.3bn in tax and supporting 100,000 jobs in 2016/17
www.premierleague.com www.premierleague.com
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Yes. But, despite that, there are already a set of well established & widely understood regulations which currently restrict which foreign national footballers can play in the Premier League
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Why can’t the rules be changed post brexit?
 
YES Blade said:
Why can’t the rules be changed post brexit?
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They can. Indeed, they must be, as the work permit regulations for workers from EU countries will simply cease to exist. But, isn't the direction of travel to gain more control, to be stricter, tighter, to make it more difficult for foreign workers to gain work permits. Whichever side of the argument you sit, surely anyone would be surprised if we made it wider, easier, for foreign nationals to work in the UK.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
surely anyone would be surprised if we made it wider, easier, for foreign nationals to work in the UK.
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I wouldn't :)

It's pomo-politics. Society of the Spectacle. Kayfabe. The Gulf War Did Not Take Place. Travels in Hyperreality.

Reality doesn't matter. It's all about Theatre. Enjoy the show. It's really something.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
They can. Indeed, they must be, as the work permit regulations for workers from EU countries will simply cease to exist. But, isn't the direction of travel to gain more control, to be stricter, tighter, to make it more difficult for foreign workers to gain work permits. Whichever side of the argument you sit, surely anyone would be surprised if we made it wider, easier, for foreign nationals to work in the UK.
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I can’t speak for those that voted for Brexit as I voted to remain, but I think those that voted for Brexit with immigration as a motivation did so due to the influx of Eastern European workers. I don’t remember anyone moaning about foreign EU footballers so I can’t see it being an issue if a points based system allowed EU footballers to work in the UK relatively easily.
 
YES Blade said:
I can’t speak for those that voted for Brexit as I voted to remain, but I think those that voted for Brexit with immigration as a motivation did so due to the influx of Eastern European workers. I don’t remember anyone moaning about foreign EU footballers so I can’t see it being an issue if a points based system allowed EU footballers to work in the UK relatively easily.
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Fair enough. There has been a long ongoing debate about the large number of foreign nationals playing Premier League football & the impact on the England national team. That has included an argument that giving more opportunities to UK nationals in the Premier League would give more experience to English qualified players & improve the quality & chances of the England team.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Fair enough. There has been a long ongoing debate about the large number of foreign nationals playing Premier League football & the impact on the England national team. That has included an argument that giving more opportunities to UK nationals in the Premier League would give more experience to English qualified players & improve the quality & chances of the England team.
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That’s a separate debate but as you have brought it up, I’ll give my opinion. I’ve never bought into the too many foreigners having an impact on England for a few reasons.

1. England weren’t a great side in the 70s and 80s, when there were hardly any foreign players in English football.
2. The lack of English talent has always been due to poor coaching and with the academy system in place we’re seeing better players come through.
3. Sending the foreign players packing won’t make our players better, you will just end up with worse players playing at Premier League level.
4. If you’re good enough you’ll make it to the top. Countless young English players make it into top sides in this country, they don’t need to be put into these teams by default when they are good enough already.
 
YES Blade said:
That’s a separate debate but as you have brought it up, I’ll give my opinion. I’ve never bought into the too many foreigners having an impact on England for a few reasons.

1. England weren’t a great side in the 70s and 80s, when there were hardly any foreign players in English football.
2. The lack of English talent has always been due to poor coaching and with the academy system in place we’re seeing better players come through.
3. Sending the foreign players packing won’t make our players better, you will just end up with worse players playing at Premier League level.
4. If you’re good enough you’ll make it to the top. Countless young English players make it into top sides in this country, they don’t need to be put into these teams by default when they are good enough already.
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Thanks.
I understand why you say it's a separate debate. But, it's a debate that could get nowhere pre Brexit. Because there was free movement within the EU. My view is that both the FA & the PFA will be consulted on work permit regulations. And, I would expect the issue of the impact of foreign players on the England national side to be raised. As I've said earlier in this thread, I was responsible for helping to maintain the algorithm used for non-EU foreign footballers work permits. But, of course, the points you make are all part of that debate. May I ask, are you in favour of scrapping work permits for ALL footballers signed by PL Clubs? For eg, clubs are currently only allowed to sign the very best Argentinians. Would you be prepared to see work permits given to ANY Argentinian (for eg) signed by a club?
Thanks
 

Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Thanks.
I understand why you say it's a separate debate. But, it's a debate that could get nowhere pre Brexit. Because there was free movement within the EU. My view is that both the FA & the PFA will be consulted on work permit regulations. And, I would expect the issue of the impact of foreign players on the England national side to be raised. As I've said earlier in this thread, I was responsible for helping to maintain the algorithm used for non-EU foreign footballers work permits. But, of course, the points you make are all part of that debate. May I ask, are you in favour of scrapping work permits for ALL footballers signed by PL Clubs? For eg, clubs are currently only allowed to sign the very best Argentinians. Would you be prepared to see work permits given to ANY Argentinian (for eg) signed by a club?
Thanks
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I think the current work permit rules are fine to be honest, would allowing a free for all mean League One and Two teams would be full of South Americans and Africans? I can’t see it, but I think it’s probably best to have a system in place which would prevent our leagues being filled with bang average foreign players.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
There will need to be some regulations for EU immigrants working in the UK. Those have not been decided yet. I am not able to let you know the regulations under which Mousset will be judged. You & me are saying the same thing aren't we? I'm not sure what you're coming back at me with....
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Am I right in thinking that it will take some years after we leave the EU when there will need to be some regulations for EU immigrants working in the UK?
 
Silent Blade said:
Am I right in thinking that it will take some years after we leave the EU when there will need to be some regulations for EU immigrants working in the UK?
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Essentially, I'm dodging that one. As I don't know enough about what happens when & to whom. But, I think you're right. We need to get to the end of January 2020. When we leave the EU. As we move into the transition period, very little will change for EU workers in the UK. In post 115, Sithblade very helpfully explains the rights of those EU workers already in the UK to apply for Settled Status. But, the transition period will end in December 2020. Depending on what is negotiated when, and with how much shit hitting the fan, it is possible that there will be a completely different (maybe radically so) work permit regime for NEW EU workers MOVING to and STARTING a job in the UK from January 2021. There is a distinction between those already here & those coming after the transition arrangements end (Dec 2020).
I'll very very very much stand to be corrected
 
[/QUOTE]
December 2019? It's already ended?
 
December 2019? It's already ended?
[/QUOTE]
Sorry. I got all the fucking dates wrong. I've edited it.....
 
Just for info, there is already a mechanism in place for players to get a 'work permit' when they don't meet the normal criteria; the FA can still give an endorsement - they take into account transfer fee, wages, the league the club they're coming from play in etc.
 
Freddy Dunning-Kruger said:
Just for info, there is already a mechanism in place for players to get a 'work permit' when they don't meet the normal criteria; the FA can still give an endorsement - they take into account transfer fee, wages, the league the club they're coming from play in etc.
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Thanks. Yes that is the case. But, those regulations are still aimed at making sure only the elite players get endorsements. They cover things like - the player would be in the top 25% of wage earners in the PL, the club they're coming from must play in the Champions League Group Stage. I'm neutral on it all. But, my point remains.......

Given we already have a detailed set of criteria for granting permits/endorsements to only elite players from non-EU foreign countries. How much will we relax those criteria (if at all) for new signings once the EU Brexit withdrawal Transition arrangements end in December 2020? Might Premier League clubs only be allowed to sign elite EU players from Jan 2021. Might signing a non-elite foreign player like Mousset not be possible in the future?

..... I'm not particularly looking for answers, but Brexit does mean something will have to change...
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Essentially, I'm dodging that one. As I don't know enough about what happens when & to whom. But, I think you're right. We need to get to the end of January 2020. When we leave the EU. As we move into the transition period, very little will change for EU workers in the UK. In post 115, Sithblade very helpfully explains the rights of those EU workers already in the UK to apply for Settled Status. But, the transition period will end in December 2020. Depending on what is negotiated when, and with how much shit hitting the fan, it is possible that there will be a completely different (maybe radically so) work permit regime for NEW EU workers MOVING to and STARTING a job in the UK from January 2021. There is a distinction between those already here & those coming after the transition arrangements end (Dec 2020).
I'll very very very much stand to be corrected
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Watford dont seem to be worried, they have just signed an Argentinian on a 4 and half year contract
 
Silent Blade said:
Watford dont seem to be worried, they have just signed an Argentinian on a 4 and half year contract
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Isn't the usual BLAG "Argentinian with Spanish Passport". A few years ago, Yorkshire Cricket specialised in signing Overseas Players Eligible for Australia who DIDN'T meet the Work Permit requirements but had British Flag Of Convenience Passports. Including Jake Lehmann.
I once had a discussion with a football agent who specialised in African players. I was pitching a "partnership" to him where I would use my knowledge of the non-EU Work Permit regs. I would calculate which players from which countries would immediately become eligible "if Senegal beat Gambia a week on Friday". He would then hoover up those players into his Agency. Crikey - the "nationality Blags" he was in on was a right eye opener.
 
See John Stones is the transfer gossip.

Would anyone here trade him for Basham?





No?

So why isn't he playing for England then I wonder.

Well... I don't wonder, because Southgate has no guts.
 
FMBlade1 said:
See John Stones is the transfer gossip.

Would anyone here trade him for Basham?





No?

So why isn't he playing for England then I wonder.

Well... I don't wonder, because Southgate has no guts.
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He’s 31 Mike.
‘Well, if you’re old enough, you’re good enough’
 

1579777980368.png

'Shortage of quality options'

If only there was a solid defensive partnership out there which works together as a team, not a group of individuals...
 
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