Are we scared to give the young lads a try??

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EddieColquhoun said:
Calvert-Lewin, Ramsdale, Brooks, Eastwood and Slater all got into the first-team in the transformation from mid-League table League One team to good Premier League team.
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As a genuine question. Everton & Bournemouth both invested fairly big money on Dominic & Aaron when they weren't established first team players. They bought them young & as prospects. They didn't immediately slot into their first team squads. But, they are currently paying off in terms of Premier League minutes & goals. I'm saying .... Utd haven't been able to do that yet. We've more "lived off scraps". Would forum readers be happy with big money going on "prospects". Is that something you can see happening & being accepted?
 

The sales of Brooks, Ramsdale, DCL enabled us to bring in the players that now see us in the top half of the EPL.

Bournmouth and Everton could afford to take their time in developing and finishing off the rough edges of Ramsdale and DCL.

To my memory, the last academy prospect to get extended minutes for us was George Long. Who ended up being hounded out of the club for his frequent mistakes.
 
sufcboy95 said:
That wasn’t your point.
One thing offering a young kid a contract it’s another putting him in the match day squad
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If he's deemed good enough for a contract, then he must have something surely, and unless he gets a chance, non of us can say whether he's good enough or not.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
As a genuine question. Everton & Bournemouth both invested fairly big money on Dominic & Aaron when they weren't established first team players. They bought them young & as prospects. They didn't immediately slot into their first team squads. But, they are currently paying off in terms of Premier League minutes & goals. I'm saying .... Utd haven't been able to do that yet. We've more "lived off scraps". Would forum readers be happy with big money going on "prospects". Is that something you can see happening & being accepted?
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On the flip side, we're being forced into spending far bigger money on unproven premier league players are we not?
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Posters suggesting we need to invest in Cat 1 Academy. If that was the right thing to do, Wilder & Knill would have surely made it happen already. (I'm trying to get the hang of this in Wilder we trust thing.....)
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Wilder's gone on the record wanting a Cat one academy.
 
nopigfansintown said:
Wilder's gone on the record wanting a Cat one academy.
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I'll accept your word on that. I recall him mentioning improvements to The Academy. But, not specifically mentioning Cat 1. It'd help me out if you had a link to specific mention of Cat 1. But, happy to take your word.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Brilliant. Thank you so much for searching that out for me. I'm glad I said I'd take your word....
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It does say Category A rather than Category One but I presume it's a misprint. It's also not a direct quote, so it's worth a follow up question. I feel sorry for Binnion if he's taken the wrap for underperformance, if the club seems to be tacitly acknowledging that productivity levels have fallen at least partly due to EPPP.
 
BigBed said:
No, that's why I asked the original question, and everyone has commented, it's a nice little debate isn't it.
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Last season, I think, Parkhouse and his agent decided that a loan to Derry would be the best move and now he doesnt want to continue with us so why would we pick him for the first team if he doesnt want to continue with us. It is a poor debate if you have already known about this.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I do not believe he is infallible.
If he really is God's Gift, how come he hasn't got an Academy Youngster into the First Team?
And don't give me all the "because they're not good enough...." shit
Isn't it his job to make them good enough, you know, if he really is infallible.....
Also ..... fucking Peroni .... laughable
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As you have been an Academy watcher for many years, I was surprised you hadnt really heard of the EPPP and that some of our best Academy players had moved to other clubs who have Category 1 Academy and that I had to explain these to you. Since our Academy had been downgraded a few years ago, we have not had many youth players who are good enough for the 1st team.
 
Silent Blade said:
Last season, I think, Parkhouse and his agent decided that a loan to Derry would be the best move and now he doesnt want to continue with us so why would we pick him for the first team if he doesnt want to continue with us. It is a poor debate if you have already known about this.
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4 pages of poor debate then, and i was using Parkhouse as an example, we don't see many, if any breaking through lately.
 

Silent Blade said:
As you have been an Academy watcher for many years, I was surprised you hadnt really heard of the EPPP and that some of our best Academy players had moved to other clubs who have Category 1 Academy and that I had to explain these to you. Since our Academy had been downgraded a few years ago, we have not had many youth players who are good enough for the 1st team.
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Of course. I'm an Academy Watcher. So, I can only really watch U18 & U23 players. I go to enjoy watching the games, shooting the breeze with the Carrier Bag Firm & getting the beers in. Who has been poached from us that I'll have seen play or heard of?
 
BigBed said:
4 pages of poor debate then, and i was using Parkhouse as an example, we don't see many, if any breaking through lately.
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You and I dont even know if Parkhouse is good enough for the first team. Since the EPPP was introduced, in the last few years our best Academy players have moved to other clubs who have Category 1 Academy. It is not Wilder's fault!
 
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BigBed said:
The David Parkhouse situation got me thinking, it's quite rare for us to play any of the young academy lads, and with Parkhouse turning down a new deal, are we pushing our home grown talent out to other clubs??
Brooks was really the last to break through the academy, and he suprised us all!
Calvert-lewin came through and wasn't good enough for us, but he's an established prem striker now.
Arron Ramsdale, now first choice at Bournemouth, didn't get a chance with us.
It makes you wonder, after seeing how many young lads are coming straight into the game now, we seem to be more reliant on the usual faces at the moment, and yes they're doing a job, but why not stick Parkhouse on the bench and give him a couple of 10min cameos??
Just wondered if he could turn out to be the missing bit up top?
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I think as all things these players can’t break into the premier league as we cant take the risk, or maybe they are just not good enough at the time. Just look at Maguire most thought he was slow and not good enough, needed to leave united to fulfill his potential with a team who would pay him cash and slowly blood him
 
That’s why we should have a reserve team playing in a reserves league. It’s oreight all this Academy lark but these lads need testing against real men. Blokes with chads and handlebar moustaches, bulging biceps and missing teeth. That’s where we’re going wrong! ;)
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Of course. I'm an Academy Watcher. So, I can only really watch U18 & U23 players. I go to enjoy watching the games, shooting the breeze with the Carrier Bag Firm & getting the beers in. Who has been poached from us that I'll have seen play or heard of?
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I have told you before that since the EPPP was introduced a few years ago, coaches at both SUFC and SWFC Academies have said to me that the best players under 16 have gone to other clubs.
 
BigBed said:
THIS is what I mean, who's to say he hasn't??
If Celtic believe he's good enough, why don't united??
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My take on it is this - Celtic do not have an abundance of strikers. Indeed, they are over reliant on Odsonne Edouard; they have Rangers breathing down their necks, a Europa League campaign, so they can’t afford for him to get injured. With Griffiths still struggling for fitness they are desperate. So much so, Rhodes has even been mentioned up here.

Parky may well do them a job against the likes of Hamilton, St Jonstone et al, allowing Edouard to be rested.

So, as he’s not a born Blade, the thought of playing in front of 50,000 every other week rather than trying to get past Moose, McB, Sharpe, Robinson Didzy or even Clarke might be more pleasing to him.
 
Silent Blade said:
I have told you before that since the EPPP was introduced a few years ago, coaches at both SUFC and SWFC Academies have said to me that the best players under 16 have gone to other clubs.
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I don't know any coaches at either SWFC or SUFC. I'm very happy to take your word. Stuff like that doesn't spoil my enjoyment of games.
 
But Silent Blade, if there is someone who was poached from us at a young age "because of EPPP" who is now ripping up the PL - I'd not be the only one interested in names....
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I don't know any coaches at either SWFC or SUFC. I'm very happy to take your word. Stuff like that doesn't spoil my enjoyment of games.
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I was an Academy and reserves watcher from 2001 to 2005 and have posted reports in the BU forum. I thought Ian Ross was going to be the next big thing. I often spoke to Brian Jessop. Does he still go to Academy matches?
 
Silent Blade said:
I was an Academy and reserves watcher from 2001 to 2005 and have posted reports in the BU forum. I thought Ian Ross was going to be the next big thing. I often spoke to Brian Jessop. Does he still go to Academy matches?
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Yes. Brian is still a regular. He's routinely done 100+ SUFC games a season in recent years.
 
Yes, we're shit scared of giving young players their "chance".

Luckily, this policy seems to have got us into the upper echelons of the top division, playing the most enjoyable football I've seen in my 56 years of going, so it doesn't appear to be holding us back at the moment.
Perhaps, if we can maintain our status for a number of seasons this will change, but for now . . . having too much fun to really give one.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
As a genuine question. Everton & Bournemouth both invested fairly big money on Dominic & Aaron when they weren't established first team players. They bought them young & as prospects. They didn't immediately slot into their first team squads. But, they are currently paying off in terms of Premier League minutes & goals. I'm saying .... Utd haven't been able to do that yet. We've more "lived off scraps". Would forum readers be happy with big money going on "prospects". Is that something you can see happening & being accepted?
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No
 

Silent Blade said:
He always scribbled down his thoughts of the matches and has kept all the records at home since 1988!
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The last time I quizzed him, I got the impression that nowadays he just writes shit down because he knows other anoraks will ask him for details and he'll need them to hand. When I go, my job is to confirm his "goal timings" as I put a stopwatch on games.
 
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