Has Wilder been found out?

[Top Cat]

I’m still here, nothing much to moan about at the minute.

So you make no comment when the Blades win automatic promotion to the Premier League against all the odds. You only post when there is something to moan about?

You are either a piggy, or a very weird individual.

Did you realise that the Blades will be playing in the Premier League next season, or did it pass you by?

 

[tonytonycurrie]

Managing in the Sunday league, or in Leagues 1 and 2, is very different to managing in the Championship. Could it be that he simply hasn't got the chops - in either man management or transfer management terms - to manage a club of our size in the second tier?

Did he think it would be as easy as making sure that everyone drinks beer together and that a great bunch of lads with team spirit would be able to hold their own?

Did he imagine that a rigid wage structure would enhance the espirit de corps, encouraging the team to become more than the sum of its parts?

Did he think that people would come to the club for the honour of playing for us?

I suspect that he's a great manager when at the helm of a club where all the players in the league are a similar standard, as he can get the best out of them by engendering an 'all for one' team spirit. However, I fear that at this level he hasn't got a clue about how to successfully manage a team, and I make two predictions: one, that he won't last the season, and two, that we'll finish lower than we did last year.

 

[Sirius]

Excellent first post, not suspicious at all. Well played.

Thank you porky pig

 

[Sirius]

So you make no comment when the Blades win automatic promotion to the Premier League against all the odds. You only post when there is something to moan about?

You are either a piggy, or a very weird individual.

Did you realise that the Blades will be playing in the Premier League next season, or did it pass you by?

You are either a piggy, or a very weird individual. Can you tell the difference

 

[Rodley]

Go on then.

Not sure this one is coming back up the u-bend I’m afraid pal.

 

[Tezza1889]

Not a single considered response. Fantastic. I'm not pork, by the way. Maybe I'll return to highlight this thread when my prophesies come to pass. I feel a little like Cassandra...

You’re definitely not a unitedite, and you never will be posting that kind of drivel..

 

[blade too long]

Man city only lost out in the cl to a tight offside on VAR . Was hardly a fail

 

[Prestonblade5]

So you make no comment when the Blades win automatic promotion to the Premier League against all the odds. You only post when there is something to moan about?

You are either a piggy, or a very weird individual.

Did you realise that the Blades will be playing in the Premier League next season, or did it pass you by?

I think the joke went straight over your head. Great season and I was completely surprised that we did it.

Looking forward to next season, they can finish bottom for all I care, the fact they are there is unreal.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I think the joke went straight over your head. Great season and I was completely surprised that we did it.

Looking forward to next season, they can finish bottom for all I care, the fact they are there is unreal.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Managing in the Sunday league, or in Leagues 1 and 2, is very different to managing in the Championship. Could it be that he simply hasn't got the chops - in either man management or transfer management terms - to manage a club of our size in the second tier?

Did he think it would be as easy as making sure that everyone drinks beer together and that a great bunch of lads with team spirit would be able to hold their own?

Did he imagine that a rigid wage structure would enhance the espirit de corps, encouraging the team to become more than the sum of its parts?

Did he think that people would come to the club for the honour of playing for us?

I suspect that he's a great manager when at the helm of a club where all the players in the league are a similar standard, as he can get the best out of them by engendering an 'all for one' team spirit. However, I fear that at this level he hasn't got a clue about how to successfully manage a team, and I make two predictions: one, that he won't last the season, and two, that we'll finish lower than we did last year.

A number of points, which I’ll try and address.

As has been stated a number of times, CW started managing a Sunday league level, but it’s not like he stepped out of an office job and began involving himself in football. He had been a professional footballer for 20 years previously and had obviously taken in the techniques, tactics & strategies of the managers he played under. He has subsequently evolved his style as he’s moved up the divisions, accommodating to his surroundings and jettisoning things that didn’t work and picking up new things along the way. He has evolved and refined himself, whilst others have lost interest, been unlucky, become stagnant or found a natural level from which they can’t improve.

One of the apparent strengths in his armoury is the engendering and protection of team spirit and an appreciation of what can be achieved with everyone pushing in the same direction. At various times SUFC have had teams that individually weren’t the best, but collectively they were excelled. He's been a part of one and he's obviously learnt from the others.

There’s been discussions around this and how it’s achieved, from player recruitment to player socialising, and so far it has worked. The strategy was put under pressure in League 1 and came through, and has been put under pressure in the Championship and come through. Obviously, the premier league is harder still, and more pressure will be applied and we will have to wait and see what happens. But having seen the fight that Cardiff put up this season, it’s evident how far team spirit and work rate can make you at least competitive.

He’s managed to mesh this with a modern approach to fitness and conditioning and progressive tactics covering open play and set pieces. He’s also put together and excellent back room staff.

Due to the two promotions in three years, and the teams from where we bought the players, it would seem that other than a couple of players, wages haven’t been a problem and players have benefited from pay rises when merited. I suspect that the same will happen again in close season. It is probably an active ingredient in the recruitment strategy of the club as well, through chatting with players to ascertain their motivation by money.

I think that CW has turned the club into one where players would want to come and play, and that isn’t linked to an easy pay day. It’s effort and reward. And that is one of the lasting legacies of CW, he's re-booted the club ethos, from a shambling set of arseholes under previous managers to players who are proud to wear the shirt and the fans are proud for them to wear the shirt.

‘Found out’ would suggest some degree of deception or the misleading people, it’s a loaded phrase and would be more applicable to a Frank Lampard type of appointment as opposed to CW who have worked his way up from the bottom rungs of English football and been successful at every level. He hasn’t been parachuted into a top job with no experience to much fanfare.

Fair questions are:

‘Was he given a job he didn’t deserve?’ No, he was a level of manager that we were in the market for when we employed him, and he has shown himself to be highly competent at every level we've been at. he was a time served manager who has ground into the job.

‘Has he over performed?’ Possibly, but that's no crime. He may have already peaked, or he may just be moving upwards towards his natural higher level. Who knows? He’s certainly seized his opportunity with both hands and maximised the return from the materials given to him, and that counts for a lot in football, and it’s what separates the Brian Clough’s from the Ron Atkinson’s of the world and the Ronaldo’s from the Gazza’s.

Have his tactics been effectively countered by the opposition? Not as yet. What we do has been discussed, and analysed. It is one thing to see what is happening, but another to stop it from happening. This hasn’t happened to date, and the Prem is a different level, so we’ll have to wait and see.

Have the players lost interest/belief in his methods? No. To date, CW has stepped up to the plate and faced every increasing difficult challenge with aplomb and brought the players along with him, even the non-playing ones. There have been times in the last three seasons where things could've been derailed but haven't been.

 

[SUFC Guy]

Why what's he done now?

 

[dc_blade]

Thank you porky pig

?

 

[Bladezz]

He finished 10th last season with a bottom 4 budget? Close the thread.

Just want to say I was right.

 

[blade67]

Not trying to stir up shit by posting on this thread at this time, honest I tried to find a thread title around which my point would be relevant.

One of the themes that often comes out in Roygbiv pre-view from posts is blades saying things like, "I'm glad they think we are shit, means we can go under the radar". Another narrative I hear regularly is that the season may get harder as the other teams "work out" how to play against us or pay more attention to us.

I raise this now as Wilder made some really good points in his interviews this about the level of preparation that premier league clubs go to prior to each and every game.

There is simply no way that any side we have met so far this season has been surprised by United's tactics or players. The reality is that we have been analysed to death by every side and they will have planned exactly how to play against us, just as we have done the same to them. Wilder tells a tale of Mourinho handing the analysis dossier he'd had prepared to an FA Cup opponent after Chelsea had played them and the opposition manager being open mouthed at the level of detail.

This is because premier league teams employ teams of analysts who do nothing more than watch opponents live and on video to identify every strength and weakness, and then prepare reports for managers. I know for a fact that united do it, and as Wilder states in his interview, he know how many of these guys the other premier league teams employ, so he knows they are all doing it too.

I guess my point is that Wilder, and his systems were found out years ago, that challenge isn't knowing what is being done but how to stop it, and when that system involves players working tremendously hard, then countering that is equally hard. Wilder effectively laughed off the idea that we were under greater scrutiny, "we've probably been watched for the last 2 years" and made the point that our continued success lies in our own ability to maintain standards.

All round he's got a pretty decent approach to the game. 8/10, maybe even a 9

 

[Bath Blade]

Not trying to stir up shit by posting on this thread at this time, honest I tried to find a thread title around which my point would be relevant.

One of the themes that often comes out in Roygbiv pre-view from posts is blades saying things like, "I'm glad they think we are shit, means we can go under the radar". Another narrative I hear regularly is that the season may get harder as the other teams "work out" how to play against us or pay more attention to us.

I raise this now as Wilder made some really good points in his interviews this about the level of preparation that premier league clubs go to prior to each and every game.

There is simply no way that any side we have met so far this season has been surprised by United's tactics or players. The reality is that we have been analysed to death by every side and they will have planned exactly how to play against us, just as we have done the same to them. Wilder tells a tale of Mourinho handing the analysis dossier he'd had prepared to an FA Cup opponent after Chelsea had played them and the opposition manager being open mouthed at the level of detail.

This is because premier league teams employ teams of analysts who do nothing more than watch opponents live and on video to identify every strength and weakness, and then prepare reports for managers. I know for a fact that united do it, and as Wilder states in his interview, he know how many of these guys the other premier league teams employ, so he knows they are all doing it too.

I guess my point is that Wilder, and his systems were found out years ago, that challenge isn't knowing what is being done but how to stop it, and when that system involves players working tremendously hard, then countering that is equally hard. Wilder effectively laughed off the idea that we were under greater scrutiny, "we've probably been watched for the last 2 years" and made the point that our continued success lies in our own ability to maintain standards.

All round he's got a pretty decent approach to the game. 8/10, maybe even a 9

Although I think you’re entirely correct, I can’t help but think the Arsenal manager decided he couldn’t be bothered with the effort to read the report and that they’d just turn up and beat us with their superior quality players.

 

[blade67]

Although I think you’re entirely correct, I can’t help but think the Arsenal manager decided he couldn’t be bothered with the effort to read the report and that they’d just turn up and beat us with their superior quality players.

I know, it looks like it and sometimes they even talk like they haven't been paying attention, like the west Ham manager but given that they pay people to do this research and have been given these jobs due to having had so much previous success, then the only conclusion is that they have done the research but that the players haven't been able to overcome the challenges we've set them. Crazy times

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Not trying to stir up shit by posting on this thread at this time, honest I tried to find a thread title around which my point would be relevant.

One of the themes that often comes out in Roygbiv pre-view from posts is blades saying things like, "I'm glad they think we are shit, means we can go under the radar". Another narrative I hear regularly is that the season may get harder as the other teams "work out" how to play against us or pay more attention to us.

I raise this now as Wilder made some really good points in his interviews this about the level of preparation that premier league clubs go to prior to each and every game.

There is simply no way that any side we have met so far this season has been surprised by United's tactics or players. The reality is that we have been analysed to death by every side and they will have planned exactly how to play against us, just as we have done the same to them. Wilder tells a tale of Mourinho handing the analysis dossier he'd had prepared to an FA Cup opponent after Chelsea had played them and the opposition manager being open mouthed at the level of detail.

This is because premier league teams employ teams of analysts who do nothing more than watch opponents live and on video to identify every strength and weakness, and then prepare reports for managers. I know for a fact that united do it, and as Wilder states in his interview, he know how many of these guys the other premier league teams employ, so he knows they are all doing it too.

I guess my point is that Wilder, and his systems were found out years ago, that challenge isn't knowing what is being done but how to stop it, and when that system involves players working tremendously hard, then countering that is equally hard. Wilder effectively laughed off the idea that we were under greater scrutiny, "we've probably been watched for the last 2 years" and made the point that our continued success lies in our own ability to maintain standards.

All round he's got a pretty decent approach to the game. 8/10, maybe even a 9

1. You deserve an award for 'services to the forum' for refraining the urge to start a new thread.

2. Excellent post.

I know professional footballers get paid an incredible amount of money but you really get the impression that, currently, ours are going furthest to justifying their pay by the sheer effort they put in.

 

[WalkelyFan]

My own thoughts are these. The analysts are there to spot weaknesses/strengths but mainly concentrate on individual weaknesses. That’s because I can also hear managers saying ‘OK , so they have overlapping centrebacks. So what? We’ll play to our strengths and let them worry about us.’

Most teams have a strategy based on the strengths of their players. It’s the constant breaking up of those strategies that has made us such a good team, and I reckon CWAK can react quickly to things if needed. (Rarely).

 

[Carlton Blade]

Not trying to stir up shit by posting on this thread at this time, honest I tried to find a thread title around which my point would be relevant.

One of the themes that often comes out in Roygbiv pre-view from posts is blades saying things like, "I'm glad they think we are shit, means we can go under the radar". Another narrative I hear regularly is that the season may get harder as the other teams "work out" how to play against us or pay more attention to us.

I raise this now as Wilder made some really good points in his interviews this about the level of preparation that premier league clubs go to prior to each and every game.

There is simply no way that any side we have met so far this season has been surprised by United's tactics or players. The reality is that we have been analysed to death by every side and they will have planned exactly how to play against us, just as we have done the same to them. Wilder tells a tale of Mourinho handing the analysis dossier he'd had prepared to an FA Cup opponent after Chelsea had played them and the opposition manager being open mouthed at the level of detail.

This is because premier league teams employ teams of analysts who do nothing more than watch opponents live and on video to identify every strength and weakness, and then prepare reports for managers. I know for a fact that united do it, and as Wilder states in his interview, he know how many of these guys the other premier league teams employ, so he knows they are all doing it too.

I guess my point is that Wilder, and his systems were found out years ago, that challenge isn't knowing what is being done but how to stop it, and when that system involves players working tremendously hard, then countering that is equally hard. Wilder effectively laughed off the idea that we were under greater scrutiny, "we've probably been watched for the last 2 years" and made the point that our continued success lies in our own ability to maintain standards.

All round he's got a pretty decent approach to the game. 8/10, maybe even a 9

I don't agree that teams are prepared. The only teams who haven't fallen for the throw in routine where the CB ends up in your box at the touchline are Leicester and Liverpool. We've been doing that for 2 years

 

[blade67]

I don't agree that teams are prepared. The only teams who haven't fallen for the throw in routine where the CB ends up in your box at the touchline are Leicester and Liverpool. We've been doing that for 2 years

I think I know the one you mean where the midfielder comes short and "dollies" the ball over their defender for the thrower to run on to?

You may be right, but I suspect that this falls into my point that teams will know we do this, but then they have to stop it. I suspect, and may well be wrong, that we only deploy this in certain circumstances, when it's "on" perhaps.

Either way it's a great little move that delights every time it comes off.

It reminds me a bit of when Agana used to come short for corners and then lay a reverse pass back into the corner takers path who'd run into the box. We got away with that for ages as well and scored a few from it, despite just being a side of big lads who could mix it.

 

[Dec]

The great thing about Wilder and Knill is that they will already be thinking of the next tactical tweak they can make to our system. It's never a finished product.

Think about the wingbacks starting to drift inside to central positions (Baldock in particular was doing this) or even to the other wing entirely at the end of last season. This was likely done because we believed the teams were setting up to counteract the wide overload... so instead we bring another player into the mix or create an overload in the middle of the park.

Our management team will be thinking ahead of different ways teams might look to stifle us and will have tactical tweaks being planned in or at least thought about.

The move away from the one in behind the strikers is an example of this. We didn't need to do that, but sometimes you have to change it up to keep things fresh and pose more questions to the opposition. We are in a very good place where we can be proactive rather than reactive.

 

[WalkelyFan]

Not trying to stir up shit by posting on this thread at this time, honest I tried to find a thread title around which my point would be relevant.

One of the themes that often comes out in Roygbiv pre-view from posts is blades saying things like, "I'm glad they think we are shit, means we can go under the radar". Another narrative I hear regularly is that the season may get harder as the other teams "work out" how to play against us or pay more attention to us.

I raise this now as Wilder made some really good points in his interviews this about the level of preparation that premier league clubs go to prior to each and every game.

There is simply no way that any side we have met so far this season has been surprised by United's tactics or players. The reality is that we have been analysed to death by every side and they will have planned exactly how to play against us, just as we have done the same to them. Wilder tells a tale of Mourinho handing the analysis dossier he'd had prepared to an FA Cup opponent after Chelsea had played them and the opposition manager being open mouthed at the level of detail.

This is because premier league teams employ teams of analysts who do nothing more than watch opponents live and on video to identify every strength and weakness, and then prepare reports for managers. I know for a fact that united do it, and as Wilder states in his interview, he know how many of these guys the other premier league teams employ, so he knows they are all doing it too.

I guess my point is that Wilder, and his systems were found out years ago, that challenge isn't knowing what is being done but how to stop it, and when that system involves players working tremendously hard, then countering that is equally hard. Wilder effectively laughed off the idea that we were under greater scrutiny, "we've probably been watched for the last 2 years" and made the point that our continued success lies in our own ability to maintain standards.

All round he's got a pretty decent approach to the game. 8/10, maybe even a 9

And that was against Scunthorpe!

 

[Carlton Blade]

I think I know the one you mean where the midfielder comes short and "dollies" the ball over their defender for the thrower to run on to?

You may be right, but I suspect that this falls into my point that teams will know we do this, but then they have to stop it. I suspect, and may well be wrong, that we only deploy this in certain circumstances, when it's "on" perhaps.

Either way it's a great little move that delights every time it comes off.

It reminds me a bit of when Agana used to come short for corners and then lay a reverse pass back into the corner takers path who'd run into the box. We got away with that for ages as well and scored a few from it, despite just being a side of big lads who could mix it.

I agree on most parts but the fact that Liverpool and Leicester, 2 of the best 3 teams in the country were prepared says a lot. I think the Premier league is a bit lazy defensively, especially against a team like United who they believe are way inferior to them

 

[Paulus]

I'd be very surprised if Spurs haven't done their homework properly today Poch... strikes me as a man with an obsessive eye for detail.

 

[Mad Mick]

I bet the OP feels a right TIT If he is still around.

 

[Harry's Game]

Managing in the Sunday league, or in Leagues 1 and 2, is very different to managing in the Championship. Could it be that he simply hasn't got the chops - in either man management or transfer management terms - to manage a club of our size in the second tier?

Did he think it would be as easy as making sure that everyone drinks beer together and that a great bunch of lads with team spirit would be able to hold their own?

Did he imagine that a rigid wage structure would enhance the espirit de corps, encouraging the team to become more than the sum of its parts?

Did he think that people would come to the club for the honour of playing for us?

I suspect that he's a great manager when at the helm of a club where all the players in the league are a similar standard, as he can get the best out of them by engendering an 'all for one' team spirit. However, I fear that at this level he hasn't got a clue about how to successfully manage a team, and I make two predictions: one, that he won't last the season, and two, that we'll finish lower than we did last year.

 

[BushBlade]

I'd be very surprised if Spurs haven't done their homework properly today Poch... strikes me as a man with an obsessive eye for detail.

They will have but how much work can they do on the training ground in two days? I think that’s a lot of the problem. You don’t have time to make radical changes to how you play.
And I do think there’s a bit of arrogance, they won’t accept the idea that a top six club needs to change what they do to beat a ‘little club’. Look at Leicester. Second half of the season everyone knew they like to sit deep and use Mahrez’s deliveries and Vardy’s pace to hit teams on the break. But the big teams still turned up, kept a high line and lost.

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

I bet the OP feels a right TIT If he is still around.

With an attitude like his I doubt very much he ever gets his hands on any kind of TIT

 

[Superblades]

I actually think our system keeps evolving. We are now seeing Stevens on the right of their box when we have a throw near the opponents area and the same with Baldock.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Wilder could be a good manager if he didn't have such a tiny EQ.