VAR killing the game

[Scooter_mcgavin]

ignored a nudge on Pickford for our 1st goal

Give over.

 

[Bladesway]

Personally I couldn’t give a monkeys whether decisions are 100% right or not. I’m quite happy to come to terms with the notion that life isn’t perfect and sometimes things will go in your favour, and sometimes they won’t. So for me it’s entire reason for existence is pointless.

But it’s impact on the joy of watching live football is terminal in my view. There is not really anything in life to match the sudden rush of pride and exhalation of a United goal whilst sat with your nearest and dearest on the Kop. It simply won’t ever be the same again. VAR will be the death of the live experience, mark my words.

Not that the bean counters will care less whilst they w**k themselves senseless over every millimetre here or there. If 10 million folk in Thailand or wherever are happy, no one’s going to give a rat’s ass about 30,000 people in a stadium.

This, just this. If fans can accept that it is t about decisions always being right then VAR has no reason to exist. You only have to see the Chelsea Liverpool game yesterday to see why VAR will be the ruination of football as a live spectator sport.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

One thing that has surprised me is how poor the VAR cameras are. You’d think they’d insist on super high speed cameras that record at hundreds of frames per second.

 

[mancunianblade]

A keeper doesn’t have a divine right to run to the ball unimpeded. If anything Pickford impeded Robinson more than vice versa. However, if Pickford had exaggerated the contact and gone down you can bet that the goal would have been disallowed. Not a single comment questioning the decision in the Everton View From.

Never suggested they do, although dont see how you get the idea that Pickford impeded Robinson? Robinson runs across him makes no attempt to play the ball puts his arm out to block him and O'Connell attempts to nod it in, straight off the training ground can tell it was all rehearsed because as O'Connell runs back he asks the referee if the goal is good.

I mean im happy as they come we got one over an established team and VAR didn't rule it out. just saying I wouldn't have been surprised if it had been ruled out.

42 seconds in

 

[gordoncharles]

One thing that has surprised me is how poor the VAR cameras are. You’d think they’d insist on super high speed cameras that record at hundreds of frames per second.

They're also going to need a different camera placed at intervals of no more than, say, 10cm apart for the whole length of the pitch if they're going to insist on this level of, currently, spurious accuracy.

So that's 1,000 cameras just to have a chance of correctly judging offside, because we need it to be "right".

Oh, and 1,000 more on the other side because there's a good chance the actual position of one of the players will be obscured.

And they'll need to sync the very instant the ball is played from camera 512 with the images from cameras 711A and 711B, that's after they decide the definition of at what point it's considered that the ball has been played. So we're going to need to be certain about the exact frame that's being synched.

What are NASA up to these days?

 

[TaxiBlade]

I watched the Arse Villa game last night after work (didn't know result as kept radio off to not ruin f1)

and it was first game, so expected arse thrashing villa, or villa winning - but again 1st game because of VAR again I think - I turned it off. It's not worth watching games. Looked like a good game, then Villa had that call for a handball. Stonewall one! A bit like our Soton one, but much more obvious.

Seems to me, the defenders might as well try and handle the ball away from goal, and hope the ref misses it. Especially in a crowded box.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

No!! Please don't even suggest this!

What will I shout at the TV every time he appears?!

The other thing that never sat right me with on this one, was why Gerard was on the ground. The ref gave a penalty for intent, acknowledging that there was no contact made. So why wasn't Gerard booked for diving? If there was no contact made then how did he end up on the floor face down?

It's funny that since this very day I've never seen another penalty given for intent. Has anyone else seen one given anywhere in world football?

I blame Warnock for annoying Rob Styles amongst every other referee he came into contact with.

 

[Mojo]

That spurs goal and arsenal handball is a complete and utter joke. I would be absolutely fuming if I supported spurs or villa. Only the clowns in this country could come up with the most utterly ridiculous way to use VAR. Lets disallow goals cause his armpit was 0.2mm offside but let's not give pens for absolutely blatent handballs cause we don't want to undermine refs. Get an effing grip.

 

[Chief14]

So the Man Utd/Arsenal game tonight, linesman puts flags up for offside and Arsena go through and score. The goal went to VAR and was correctly given so are all offsides now allowed to be played through to a shot so they can be reviewed if a goal is scored? And I know you should play to the whistle but if the defending team stops and a goal is scored and given despite the flag being up isn’t that going to potentially cause some issues?

 

[mancunianblade]

So the Man Utd/Arsenal game tonight, linesman puts flags up for offside and Arsena go through and score. The goal went to VAR and was correctly given so are all offsides now allowed to be played through to a shot so they can be reviewed if a goal is scored? And I know you should play to the whistle but if the defending team stops and a goal is scored and given despite the flag being up isn’t that going to potentially cause some issues?

lino was waaaay to keen. I mean it wasn’t even close was it,he was inside by 2 meters

 

[jt64]

So the Man Utd/Arsenal game tonight, linesman puts flags up for offside and Arsena go through and score. The goal went to VAR and was correctly given so are all offsides now allowed to be played through to a shot so they can be reviewed if a goal is scored? And I know you should play to the whistle but if the defending team stops and a goal is scored and given despite the flag being up isn’t that going to potentially cause some issues?

Play to the whistle. Ref didn't start to do that until the shot was already on target. Obv the linesman made a big error, but that wasn't the thing that annoyed me most last night, it was the ref failing to book Lingard after about 20 minutes for cynically stopping a break away, which would have seen him sent off in the second half when he did get booked for something else.

Except he wouldn't have been sent off as refs have a nonsensical inconsistent level as to what is worth giving a yellow card for when someone already has one

 

[Bladesman]

The other thing that never sat right me with on this one, was why Gerard was on the ground. The ref gave a penalty for intent, acknowledging that there was no contact made. So why wasn't Gerard booked for diving? If there was no contact made then how did he end up on the floor face down?

It's funny that since this very day I've never seen another penalty given for intent. Has anyone else seen one given anywhere in world football?

I blame Warnock for annoying Rob Styles amongst every other referee he came into contact with.

I was thinking that during the match on Saturday. I’ve never seen a foul given for intent before or since that Gerrard penalty.

It probably was given because Warnock had pissed off every ref he ever met.

 

[benn5712]

Including himself. "Qualified referee, I am."

 

[Snake]

It also seems that had Leon scored that chance very later on, then VAR would probably have ruled it out for offside. I now think, that fook he didnt score. Taking that defeat was hard enough as it was, never mind if I'd gone absolutely mental with an equaliser only to have it chalked off 1 minute later.

Having now given VAR a lot of thought, it's definitely a NO from me. I can accept if a linesman has called a wrong decision but it's literally 6 inches or even a foot either way. That's the way it goes, you win some you lose some. But to score a goal, see the flag is down, go mental, then have it chalked off a minute or so later is horrible. That's not what football for the paying supporter should be like. VAR is for the armchair fans to enhance their viewing entertainment.

 

[Woodwardfan]

So the Man Utd/Arsenal game tonight, linesman puts flags up for offside and Arsena go through and score. The goal went to VAR and was correctly given so are all offsides now allowed to be played through to a shot so they can be reviewed if a goal is scored? And I know you should play to the whistle but if the defending team stops and a goal is scored and given despite the flag being up isn’t that going to potentially cause some issues?

The linesman should not have put his flag up until the ball hit the net.Thats the supposedly agreed way now. Causes confusion, particularly in the stands but is fair and will become understood and accepted.

I agree with Solskjar, a couple of players stopped, including the keeper I reckon.

IMO the ref should have blown up as soon as the flag went up, even if he suspected it was a wrong decision.

 

[Torrix1889]

The linesman should not have put his flag up until the ball hit the net.Thats the supposedly agreed way now. Causes confusion, particularly in the stands but is fair and will become understood and accepted.

I thought he was supposed to put it up as soon as the player who was offside, (or supposed to be anyway) touched the ball?

 

[FMBlade1]

They should use the cricket/tennis system.

You can challenge anything twice a game. If upheld you keep the review, if it's frivolous you lose it if interpretive 'referee's call' and you keep it.

Except for offsides and goaline technology where it can't be subjective and is matter of fact

 

[Woodwardfan]

I thought he was supposed to put it up as soon as the player who was offside, (or supposed to be anyway) touched the ball?

Thats not my understanding.

 

[1889]

I read an interesting article written by a mathematician, which claimed that due to camera shutter speed, VAR cannot accurately narrow offsides down to the fine margins it claims to. I cant remember where it was, but the above graphic is along similarlr lines.

Apologies if posted before,

 

[Torrix1889]

Thats not my understanding.

clear as mud eh!

 

[stringer]

I thought he was supposed to put it up as soon as the player who was offside, (or supposed to be anyway) touched the ball?

That’s if it’s blatantly offside. If it’s tight the lino’s supposed to keep their flag down until the ball is dead, then indicate they thought it was offside. VAR will then check it (if there’s a goal)

 

[Dkc]

VAR is for the armchair fans to enhance their viewing entertainment.

Exactly. The vast majority of those watching PL are armchair fans, and their money is more important than ours

 

[PokerBlade]

View attachment 62155

I read an interesting article written by a mathematician, which claimed that due to camera shutter speed, VAR cannot accurately narrow offsides down to the fine margins it claims to. I cant remember where it was, but the above graphic is along similarlr lines.

Apologies if posted before,

It's not a new point but it's nice to see it broken down so well. One way to do things would be to calculate the margin of error in the VAR and only make decisions if they go over that. It wouldn't be hard to have the computer spit out a decision +/- however many cm. The question would be whether that margin of error is so wide as to make the VAR useless.

The other thing this misses is the silliness of pretending to know, within 2.4cm, where Sterling's arm ends and his shoulder begins. That's another margin of error to factor in.

It's what I've said for years; some decisions in football are really difficult and we argue about them for hours after the game and after a hundred replays from ten angles. It's a waste of energy to worry about them too much. There was a thing on Look North last week about grass roots refereeing where they said that the majority of young refs quit the game within two years, in large part due to the abuse they take during games. Maybe worry about that a bit and we'd be able to start raising the standards of referees. The referees in football aren't the best and the brightest, they're the only ones who were willing to take dog's abuse from a bunch of Sunday League players long enough to work up the ranks. It's hardly surprising a lot of them are wankers.

 

[JohnDenver]

There was a thing on Look North last week about grass roots refereeing where they said that the majority of young refs quit the game within two years, in large part due to the abuse they take during games. Maybe worry about that a bit and we'd be able to start raising the standards of referees.

This a million times over. A complete misdirection of resources and a total lack of moral courage.

 

[Ace of Blades]

It also seems that had Leon scored that chance very later on, then VAR would probably have ruled it out for offside. I now think, that fook he didnt score. Taking that defeat was hard enough as it was, never mind if I'd gone absolutely mental with an equaliser only to have it chalked off 1 minute later.

Having now given VAR a lot of thought, it's definitely a NO from me. I can accept if a linesman has called a wrong decision but it's literally 6 inches or even a foot either way. That's the way it goes, you win some you lose some. But to score a goal, see the flag is down, go mental, then have it chalked off a minute or so later is horrible. That's not what football for the paying supporter should be like. VAR is for the armchair fans to enhance their viewing entertainment.

Spot on

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's about time the offside rule was scrapped. If a striker bog lines then mark him.

 

[SB_90]

watching rugby this morning & wales v france was fantastic game. but nice to see that rugby taught the premier league a huge lesson in VAR. because they did what we have been screaming for, if its not clear don't give it, because Ref went to the TMO/VAR, because they thought the ball had gone forward. instead of the bollocks we get now of "but he's 0.2mm offside" & ridiculous decisions given where its impossible to see with naked eye

it was a tight call nobody could completely sure even in slow mo, so they didn't overturn it. why can football do this. as I said with the offside unless attacker is clearly ahead then don't give it. nobody gives a toss if you have to get a ruler out

 

[bromtom]

After yesterday's 9th shitshow in as many game weeks, to use Premier League parlance, I was just saying to my brother if a human makes an error on an offside call or penalty they can't really see, it's terrible, but as a fellow human you eventually begrudgingly accept the mistake because you realise no-one is perfect and stuff is hard to see in real time from behind players etc.

But when 2 assistants, 3 VAR officials and 6 camera angles still come up with the wrong decision that's hard to take, and shouldn't be taken.

Watford's pen claim was as stonewall as it gets, how can it not be a penalty?

The only reason that's become clear as to why nothing gets given by VAR, only rubber-stamped, is that they don't want to take a long time - which is crap because they do anyway.

They've ruined the flow, it's gone, and they're not going to get rid of VAR now, so at least ruin the flow with correct decisions.

Take the time needed, and let the ref use the bastard screen pitch side. Not using it because you don't want flack from the crowd is shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, lived a full life, and ended up in a Findus crispy pancake.

They're already booing, have a look.

As soon as VAR gets called the referees should run over to the touchline to the monitor, if there are players protesting or fighting the lino closest should come onto the pitch and keep the peace.

It's a joke at the moment, it's costing teams points. I wouldn't be surprised if all the teams relegated have good cases for VAR having taken the amount of points required for safety off them, and then the PL are open to legal action.

As I said, when a human makes these points losing mistakes, it's a bollock but you accept it. VAR is different though, it's multiple levels of incompetence.

 

[Akinbiyi]

If a decision can’t be made within 30 seconds it’s clearly not a ‘clear and obvious error’ so let the original decision stand.

But there’s no excuse for not giving the penalties, handballs etc.

Burnley’s disallowed goal yesterday was a fucking disgrace. He tripped himself up ffs.

 

[derryblade]

I'm losing track of what's killing the game, we have had Sky, fixture changes, ticket prices, inept referee/linesman, foreign players, wages, diving players and the rich clubs getting richer and that's only some of them. As for VAR we will be happy when decisions go for you disappointed when they don't, is any system going to be spot on. I don't think many Blades will moan about a VAR error if it goes in our favour on Monday, that's football fans for you