Bolton report

[Jim Chimmerney]

I agree, the facts don't lie and he has been involved in more than one play-off final defeat, all I'm saying is if you get to the final you must have done something right. He may well always fall just short but that doesn't make him crap, just not quite good enough which is a different thing.

 

[SwissBlade]

Whilst I wasn't at the game yesterday as i'd had knee surgery this week, I listened on Bladesplayer. But I don't think that's important. On a thread named "Bolton Report" read "More reasons to get rid of Blackwell".

Nothing wrong with that Micalijo, you obviously saw the game and have your opinion.

But Poor PL side or not, they took their chances, thats perhaps why they and several other teams from the PL managed to get through this weekend against lower league opposition.

Begs the question though, whilst Bolton are very poor, were also not far off them. Afterall, we have a keeper that never makes a save and he was at fault for both goals along with a crap left back, the lack of a proper right winger and we didn't play 4-5-1 assuming we'd got these things then we'd have got a draw or better. Is that what you meant?

So Bunn is the reserve keeper, brought in to replace the banned Paddy. We have Bennett, Bunn, Paddy and Haber on our books don't we? We do need a reliable keeper.

Left Back, true Taylor is woeful at defending, but he came with a decent reputation and he's a young lad. Naysmith has taken a long time to recover from a very bad injury (i'm going through it for the 2nd time in a year) and he needs to come back in the right way otherwise he runs the risk of further damage or if unfit, risks othe injury. In many ways this is tough shite, we got Kallio in, but he was recalled moments after we'd extended his loan, Geary's not fully fit and Stewart, not sure why he's not playing.

Add to that the fact we sold a quality centre half midweek and his back up was injured in the warm up, only to be replaced with the back up to the back up. Hardly the greatest of preparation going into a big game.

Right wing, Surely its good that we don't start a Jamie Ward thats recovering from a Hamstring injury, true Williamson isn't ideal on the right, but based on what was available yesterday, he was the best we had.

And 4-5-1. Jim Chim was right, Blackie gets slated when he plays this formation, yet when he plays two strikers, he also gets slated. We have an abundance of strikers fit at the moment Camara gives us a decent option. Hendo isn't fit yet, so playing him up top on his own would have been a risk yesterday, its a demanding role.

No excuses, we have a small squad, when its stretched with injuries and suspensions it gets exposed. We don't have 2-3 players for each position, but we're overloaded in some. Recent players coming in have mostly had the thumbs up, but we have a problem that when we sell players, we don't replace them with the same quality.

Personally, whilst I really wanted us to beat Bolton, we now have a run of 9 games until the end of Feb. I just hope we have the squad to cope with it

 

[davidpinder]

I am not going to add your whole post swiss but if i can just add to the last sentence, the only place we are struggling with players is centre half again. We have 4 first choice strikers competing for 2 spots (hendo, evans, camera, cresswell). 6 first choice midfielders competing for 4 spots (williamson, ward, harper, monty, yeates, quinny) but only 2 centre half's in seip and morgs (seip just got injured). So if we can get in another good centre half then we should have the squad to challenge.

 

[boo radley]

Nice of you to give him 48 hours in the job before losing his 1st 'big game'

It's also a tad unfair to include the failure to beat Soton as proof that he's crap manager despite the fact his team had lost only 2 of the previous 12 or 13 to get us into that position in the 1st place.

Blackwell may be the Tim Henman of the managerial world but you don't have an almost 50% win record by being totally crap.

Agree JIM Also to count the soton result and not to count the previous 2 results against teams in the play offs is out of line 2-1 against Bristol and 2-0 against Hull They made the Prem that year. Also without going in to too much there was also the game against Brum last year. So it depends on what people want to class as a big game. He may loose more or draw more of these than we would like. He may also be a frustrating manager but surely
Micalijo your not saying we should change our manager now are you?

 

[LouTheBlade]

I think saturday was a strong reflection of where we are at the moment. We have a reasonable squad of players good enough to finish in the top 6 of the Championship but we wouldnt be good enough to go up and stay up. We would need 5 or 6 players minimum to even give us a chance if we went up.

That Bolton side are piss poor, make no mistake. They play more unimaginative football than anyone could ever level at Blackwell. The problem was that our manager wasnt clever enough to combat it. He picked the wrong starting eleven and despite a reasonable display in the first half he adopted the wrong approach as well. Playing right into Bolton's hands was bad enough but when we went behind it was quite apparent he had no idea how to change things.

The fact that Jaaskelainen didnt break sweat at any point in the game just shows how much we struggled to get at them. The difference was that Premier League nous of how to win games and make pressure count. You can be a piss poor PL side and still have that nous. Sadly a set of long ball merchants with no intention of passing the ball were to clever for us. Im normally a KB supporter but im really having my doubts now. Man for man we are a better football team than them and they were there for the taking. Shame.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

The problem was that our manager wasnt clever enough to combat it.

What would you have done differently ?

 

[LouTheBlade]

What would you have done differently ?

Lets see;

Before the game:-

1) I wouldnt have started Camara - good player but too lightweight to handle close attention from their back four.

2) Never play Taylor

3) Williamson is a central midifielder, not a winger


At one nil down:-

1) Made changes to the front line a lot earlier, clearly wasnt working - their back four were always comfortable.

2) Taken Monty off for Ward and moved Williamson into the middle. With Monty and Harper the midfield was sat far too deep to force any kind of pressure onto Bolton.

3) Taken Quinn off 10 mins into the second half as he struggled all game.

Blackwell's biggest let down - wrong substitutions at the wrong time. Lets hope he gets it right tomorrow night.

 

[LouTheBlade]

"I thought there was nothing in the teams. They were two sloppy goals, make no bones about it, and straight after half-time it was disappointing," said Blackwell.

"Really you would have been hard pressed to work out which was the Premier League side today.

That's because neither side looked like one Kevin.............

 

[Revolution]

2) Taken Monty off for Ward and moved Williamson into the middle. With Monty and Harper the midfield was sat far too deep to force any kind of pressure onto Bolton.

I have to say that I think putting Williamson on the wing to accomadate Monty is one of the most frustrating things Blackwell has done this season selection wise, and that's saying something. Better players should not make way for lesser players.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Lets see;

Before the game:-

1) I wouldnt have started Camara - good player but too lightweight to handle close attention from their back four.

2) Never play Taylor

3) Williamson is a central midifielder, not a winger


At one nil down:-

1) Made changes to the front line a lot earlier, clearly wasnt working - their back four were always comfortable.

2) Taken Monty off for Ward and moved Williamson into the middle. With Monty and Harper the midfield was sat far too deep to force any kind of pressure onto Bolton.

3) Taken Quinn off 10 mins into the second half as he struggled all game.

Blackwell's biggest let down - wrong substitutions at the wrong time. Lets hope he gets it right tomorrow night.

Me too

To be fair, I think giving Hendo and Camara pitch time wasn't a bad idea in the big scheme of things.

I keep saying I'd like to see Willo and Harper in the middle but there's no chance of that and it will be interesting to see if Yeates gets in tomorrow bearing in mind the team is crying out for width and neither Willo nor Squinny provide it.

 

[LouTheBlade]

Me too

To be fair, I think giving Hendo and Camara pitch time wasn't a bad idea in the big scheme of things.

I keep saying I'd like to see Willo and Harper in the middle but there's no chance of that and it will be interesting to see if Yeates gets in tomorrow bearing in mind the team is crying out for width and neither Willo nor Squinny provide it.

Agree with all of that and do see your point about Hendo and Camara. I would have started with Hendo and Cresswell saturday though.

The best our midfield looked was definately when Harper and Willo played together. Think it was the Palace game wasnt it?

 

[Grecian2000]

The best our midfield looked was definately when Harper and Willo played together. Think it was the Palace game wasnt it?

Palace and Peterborough. Both wins, both clean sheets and both featuring some of the best football we've played all season.

 

[Ollessendro]

I think saturday was a strong reflection of where we are at the moment. We have a reasonable squad of players good enough to finish in the top 6 of the Championship but we wouldnt be good enough to go up and stay up. We would need 5 or 6 players minimum to even give us a chance if we went up.

That Bolton side are piss poor, make no mistake. They play more unimaginative football than anyone could ever level at Blackwell. The problem was that our manager wasnt clever enough to combat it. He picked the wrong starting eleven and despite a reasonable display in the first half he adopted the wrong approach as well. Playing right into Bolton's hands was bad enough but when we went behind it was quite apparent he had no idea how to change things.

The fact that Jaaskelainen didnt break sweat at any point in the game just shows how much we struggled to get at them. The difference was that Premier League nous of how to win games and make pressure count. You can be a piss poor PL side and still have that nous. Sadly a set of long ball merchants with no intention of passing the ball were to clever for us. Im normally a KB supporter but im really having my doubts now. Man for man we are a better football team than them and they were there for the taking. Shame.

Blumin ekc Lou, what's got into you today!? Although we disagree about a lot of things I have to say you got it spot on in this post! (IMO of course )

 

[Ollessendro]

Blackwell's biggest let down - wrong substitutions at the wrong time. Lets hope he gets it right tomorrow night.[/QUOTE]

Another excellent point!

When we got 1-0 down KB hasn't got a clue what to do. This is 9and what Lou says above) is the reason why we have such as dismal record of coming back from defeat.

Against Newcastle it was pathetic. We went 1-0 and KB stood with his hands in his pockets for 15 mins. During this time we had 2 right wingers on the bench (both his signings and good players) and he continued with a left back in right mid. This just summarises him for me. I can give other examples if necessary.

 

[boo radley]

2)I have to say that I think putting Williamson on the wing to accomadate Monty is one of the most frustrating things Blackwell has done this season selection wise, and that's saying something. Better players should not make way for lesser players.

I'd say putting Williamson on the wing to accomodate Harper could be the way to look at it. Although harper seems to distribute well on occasions he sits too deep on Monty and you know he wont drop Monty. Williamson can do as good a job as Harper in the centre and he will get forward that way we will get better distribution in the last third and he will get more goals than Harper.

 

[LouTheBlade]

Blumin ekc Lou, what's got into you today!? Although we disagree about a lot of things I have to say you got it spot on in this post! (IMO of course )

Saturday I was thinking about some of the things you said about KB and got me thinking when we went 1-0 down.

Ive started having serious doubts about him. It got me thinking last week when someone mentioned stats about us never coming back from a goal down under him, but conversely it has been ages since we lost after going in front. Shows he's very one dimensional as a manager.

Strange, strange substitutions. I think he's so wrapped up in trying to be clever tactically, his tactics actually work out to be very poor and detrimental on the occasions he gets it wrong - if that makes any sense.

I know what im trying to say anyway

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Agree with all of that and do see your point about Hendo and Camara. I would have started with Hendo and Cresswell saturday though.

The best our midfield looked was definately when Harper and Willo played together. Think it was the Palace game wasnt it?

Willo was at the centre of most of the good moves in the 1st half on Saturday but he was drifting all over the pitch rather than staying out wide (probably playing the role most of us would like to see him in). Looks like he's out again tomorrow though which will probably leave the way open for Yeates to take his place given Wardy's position dropped/still injured/leaving *

* delete as appropriate

 

[SwissBlade]

Just a thought....

But its taken Willo ages to get over his injury. Not sure what his injury was exactly but wasn't it his back like Speed?

When he first came in he played a game and missed a game, he's rarely finished a game so i'm wondering if he can't manage more than an hour on the pitch. Centre Mid is obviously his position, but maybe he's being accomodated on the wing so that he's not in the thick of it for 90 mins.

Hence Monty and Harper in the middle.

Plus, has Monty actually done anything to merit being dropped?

I think more pressure should be heaped on Harper to get the ball down and play football. He should be the box to box midfielder that we've cried out for, for years.

 

[Grecian2000]

I'd say putting Williamson on the wing to accomodate Harper could be the way to look at it. Although harper seems to distribute well on occasions he sits too deep on Monty and you know he wont drop Monty. Williamson can do as good a job as Harper in the centre and he will get forward that way we will get better distribution in the last third and he will get more goals than Harper.

But Harper plays better alongside Williamson and when Williamson and Harper play together it looks like the best pairing we can put out.

 

[boo radley]

But Harper plays better alongside Williamson and when Williamson and Harper play together it looks like the best pairing we can put out.

Tend to agree but neither Harper or Williamson tackle and if Williamson goes forward then we have no chance of further protection of back four especially as we have a unfit Fortune who no one wants in the side and everyone thinks Taylor is lacking what it takes at the moment. Monty gives that protection and I think that the weekness of our defence at the mo means he wont drop him.
I also think he is playing well at the mo. Although i understand the desire for creativity.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Williamson is quite effective at getting back and putting a tackle in from what I've seen of him.

 

[Micalijo]

'Begs the question though, whilst Bolton are very poor, were also not far off them. Afterall, we have a keeper that never makes a save and he was at fault for both goals along with a crap left back, the lack of a proper right winger and we didn't play 4-5-1 assuming we'd got these things then we'd have got a draw or better. Is that what you meant?'

Good post Swiss - and loads of others above.

Yes, I really do think that if we had a half decent keeper we would still be in the Cup but quite obviously it is more complciated than that

I slate Taylor and Bunn, think Fortune is really slow and Willo is not a right winger so against a Prem team we didn't do that badly. Totally accept that, and as I said earlier, KB must have some attributes because we have alot of what I call big games - thankfully at the right end of the section.

The main focus of my frustration re Saturday is the response to the goal. It was really non-existant which is a shame when over the weekend as a whole plenty of lesser teams than us seem to give better teams than Bolton alot more to think about defensively.

 

[SwissBlade]

The response to goals against teams above us or around us seems to be the common theme in the so called "big games".

Again, I can't comment on Sat, but generally from what i've seen in the past couple of seasons.

We have so often this season, come from goals behind or grabbed very late goals, so scoring isn't a big problem as such.

The problem is that when games are so tight, with chances few and far between we need to make sure we take our chances when the pressure is on.

For my mind we only have Ward and possibly Quinn (seriously, he CAN at times) that can have a moment of genius, but these moments are few and far between.

Whilst i'm on it, we rarely produce from corners and freekicks

 

[Ollessendro]

'Begs the question though, whilst Bolton are very poor, were also not far off them. Afterall, we have a keeper that never makes a save and he was at fault for both goals along with a crap left back, the lack of a proper right winger and we didn't play 4-5-1 assuming we'd got these things then we'd have got a draw or better. Is that what you meant?'

Good post Swiss - and loads of others above.

Yes, I really do think that if we had a half decent keeper we would still be in the Cup but quite obviously it is more complciated than that

I slate Taylor and Bunn, think Fortune is really slow and Willo is not a right winger so against a Prem team we didn't do that badly. Totally accept that, and as I said earlier, KB must have some attributes because we have alot of what I call big games - thankfully at the right end of the section.

The main focus of my frustration re Saturday is the response to the goal. It was really non-existant which is a shame when over the weekend as a whole plenty of lesser teams than us seem to give better teams than Bolton alot more to think about defensively.

Some good points Mic, but I think you're been a bit hard on Bunn.

The 1st goal was soft I'll gove you that. Still the defending from Taylor was woeful. His positional sense was terrible and then he played like a 9 year running towards the ball. He needs to be dropped. But Bunn should not have been beaten at his near post.

The 2nd goal wasn't his fault. I don't think he could have done a lot about it. It was the fault of Morgan and/or Fortune. Morgs steps out and Fortune drops in and hence the striker has a clear run at goal. It's diffiult to attribute blame as it depends on communication at the team and what they've said to each other before the game etc.

Where have you been the last 2 months when Bunn has kept 6 clean sheets? In a 10 game spell he conced 6 goals, has contributred towards a lot of our victories and has generally been solid. He concedes one goal and you'r straight back on his back! I agree with a lot of the things you say Micalijo, but I think you've got this one wrong.

 

[Micalijo]

The response to goals against teams above us or around us seems to be the common theme in the so called "big games".

Again, I can't comment on Sat, but generally from what i've seen in the past couple of seasons.

We have so often this season, come from goals behind or grabbed very late goals, so scoring isn't a big problem as such.

The problem is that when games are so tight, with chances few and far between we need to make sure we take our chances when the pressure is on.

For my mind we only have Ward and possibly Quinn (seriously, he CAN at times) that can have a moment of genius, but these moments are few and far between.

Whilst i'm on it, we rarely produce from corners and freekicks

Very true. When was the last time we scored a header from a set-piece? On Saturday our corners were more a danger to us re quick break than a threat to Bolton

Totally agree with your assessment. I sensed a total lack of conviction on Saturday, which is a shame because on plenty of occassions this season we have scored when behind or mounted a serious barrage against Newcastle in last 10 minutes (although someone on here classically suggested we didn't create much in that spell!!)

 

[Micalijo]

Some good points Mic, but I think you're been a bit hard on Bunn.

The 1st goal was soft I'll gove you that. Still the defending from Taylor was woeful. His positional sense was terrible and then he played like a 9 year running towards the ball. He needs to be dropped. But Bunn should not have been beaten at his near post.

The 2nd goal wasn't his fault. I don't think he could have done a lot about it. It was the fault of Morgan and/or Fortune. Morgs steps out and Fortune drops in and hence the striker has a clear run at goal. It's diffiult to attribute blame as it depends on communication at the team and what they've said to each other before the game etc.

Where have you been the last 2 months when Bunn has kept 6 clean sheets? In a 10 game spell he conced 6 goals, has contributred towards a lot of our victories and has generally been solid. He concedes one goal and you'r straight back on his back! I agree with a lot of the things you say Micalijo, but I think you've got this one wrong.

Let me stress that Taylor was the main culprit for the first goal.

However, in most cases prior to any shot there will be a moment where a defender could have done better. This is when the keeper comes into it and where they can make a difference. Bunny very, very rarely does that. I wouldn't have gone great save if he stopped the second one either - he went down too early imo. Not a mistake as such, but he could have done better, easily. I know my position is too entrenched and his stats are good recently but do we need a keeper who did what he did at Leicester in a tight game, no. There are many other examples for me this season of him letting soft goals in. All keepers make mistakes but he is a serious weakness and a major problem in my opinion.

 

[Ollessendro]

Let me stress that Taylor was the main culprit for the first goal.

However, in most cases prior to any shot there will be a moment where a defender could have done better. This is when the keeper comes into it and where they can make a difference. Bunny very, very rarely does that. I wouldn't have gone great save if he stopped the second one either - he went down too early imo. Not a mistake as such, but he could have done better, easily. I know my position is too entrenched and his stats are good recently but do we need a keeper who did what he did at Leicester in a tight game, no. There are many other examples for me this season of him letting soft goals in. All keepers make mistakes but he is a serious weakness and a major problem in my opinion.

What can I say to that? The fact is that you made your mind up in the first few games and are too stubborn to change it. IMHO there is nothing that Bunn could do to change your mind about this siutation. I don't think it would be the right decision to put Bennet in just yet. I'd give Bunn the chance to bounce back.

Don;t you think Bunn deserves some credit Mic? I mean Saturday aside. The guy is very young and went through a really bad spell. By luck he got back into the team and kept a clean sheet and a penalty. Man management genius Blackwell then showed his confidence in him by dropping him. Again fortunately he was given another chance and he took it with both hands. As you said, the stats speak for themselves.

I've been critical of Bunn in the past, but I'd like to say well done to him. He fought his way back into the team, played solidly, has got his confidence back and has contributed to our upturn in form. He made a mistake on Saturday, but I'm not going to jump down his throat. If he makes another mistake and/or lets in a few sloppy goals then i'll get on his back. However, for the moment I'll say forget about Saturdat and keep up the good work Mark!

 

[SwissBlade]

What can I say to that? The fact is that you made your mind up in the first few games and are too stubborn to change it.

You can't possibly be talking about Micalijo ha ha

To put things in perspective, would Morgan be treated the same nowadays?

Everyone makes mistakes, its how you move on from them and learn.

I have to side with Micalijo slightly here as when the pressures on he tends to struggle with confidence/ concentration/ nerves or something

 

[Ollessendro]

I have to side with Micalijo slightly here as when the pressures on he tends to struggle with confidence/ concentration/ nerves or something

Traitor!? I start saying something positive and you go to the dark side Swiss!?!?

 

[Grecian2000]

To put things in perspective, would Morgan be treated the same nowadays?

Everyone makes mistakes, its how you move on from them and learn.

In a nutshell.

Morgs (in particular) has "earned the right" to his mistakes by being as solid as anyone over a given time span. Bunn has sufferred a very shaky patch and had appeared to come through it. How he performs now, after a goal costing mistake, will be crucial.