Wilder annoyed at transfer-listed players who won’t leave

[Sean Thornton]

They're hardly Winston Bogarde are they.

Can see both sides to this one but I'm loathe to be too harsh on the players concerned just by trying to put myself in that position.

One of my favourite actors. "Of all the offices in all the world you come into mine and won't leave"

 

[AWetFlannel]

Some people continue to judge this according to whether these players are choosing between riches and poverty. That's not the issue. Obviously they are going to have money enough to live at least comfortably, and yes, be able to feed their kids, but that's simply not how people - and I'm guessing any of us - see things. A footballer's aim is to make it to the top, to have money to live a better than average life, to set his kids up, buy mum and dad a house, and yes, drive a flash car, etc etc. The "I want to play football every week" probably slots into the list of priorities somewhere, but not necessarily right at the top, overriding everything else. For some, maybe it does, for others maybe not.

Also, do people apply this maxim to all the players who sign at clubs as back-up, or as squad players, knowing they are waiting on injuries or mistakes to get their chance at a game? It's a similar situation, the PL is full of players who don't have much chance of a game. Players who are signed by clubs "just in case" or on speculation. Not all of them will go out on loan, are they also to be criticised for taking an option where they're not getting first team football every week?

Really you've just pointed out what footballers think without defending it. What I and others are doing is attacking their motives.

There is no evidence to suggest that being obsessed with money, fame and possessions makes people and their families happier. If they want to live better than average lives, prehaps they should concentrate on intrinsically fulfilling goals rather than vague BS about 'making it to the top' and lies suggesting that wealth = happiness.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Really you've just pointed out what footballers think without defending it. What I and others are doing is attacking their motives.

There is no evidence to suggest that being obsessed with money, fame and possessions makes people and their families happier. If they want to live better than average lives, prehaps they should concentrate on intrinsically fulfilling goals rather than vague BS about 'making it to the top' and lies suggesting that wealth = happiness.

I am not particularly trying to defend their actions, I am criticising Wilder's public comments and saying I can understand how some players may be thinking and that they have every right to stick to their contracts.
I have no doubt you live your own life according to the principles of eshewing money for the sake of happiness, although I'm not sure how "making it to the top" is either bullshit or not the sort of goal you're advocating, but you're going to have a hell of a job convincing the rest of the world - and especially young men you have been drawn to professional football - not to be too bothered about financial reward.

 

[SwindonBladeJnr]

Really you've just pointed out what footballers think without defending it. What I and others are doing is attacking their motives.

There is no evidence to suggest that being obsessed with money, fame and possessions makes people and their families happier. If they want to live better than average lives, prehaps they should concentrate on intrinsically fulfilling goals rather than vague BS about 'making it to the top' and lies suggesting that wealth = happiness.

But actually, what is the evidence that any of the United players in question are 'obsessed with money, fame and possessions'?

 

[ChrisDysonHT]

https://www.sheffieldunited.news/op...nwanted-sheffield-united-players-havent-left/ great figures highlighted re Ched's pay rise

 

[AWetFlannel]

But actually, what is the evidence that any of the United players in question are 'obsessed with money, fame and possessions'?

There isn't and I wasn't suggesting that. Wilder seems to be suggesting that one (or more) of the transfer listed players aren't making an effort to actually play football, which I would criticise.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I am not particularly trying to defend their actions, I am criticising Wilder's public comments and saying I can understand how some players may be thinking and that they have every right to stick to their contracts.
I have no doubt you live your own life according to the principles of eshewing money for the sake of happiness, although I'm not sure how "making it to the top" is either bullshit or not the sort of goal you're advocating, but you're going to have a hell of a job convincing the rest of the world - and especially young men you have been drawn to professional football - not to be too bothered about financial reward.

They have every right to run down their contracts, but ought they?

I'd defend what Chris has said on the basis that whoever he is on about is reluctant to go and play football.

'Make it to the top' isn't necessarily BS, just overly vague imo. I understand I'll not convince anyone - never mind pro players, just giving mi opinion.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

They have every right to run down their contracts, but ought they?

I'd defend what Chris has said on the basis that whoever he is on about is reluctant to go and play football.

'Make it to the top' isn't necessarily BS, just overly vague imo. I understand I'll not convince anyone - never mind pro players, just giving mi opinion.

Ought they? Well, I think that is going to differ from person to person. You've got Duffy, who no doubt would have got games and been good enough to stake a claim for a place, but somehow that wasn't good enough - he wanted a better contract and be no.1 choice (if his sulking last year is anything to go by). So he gave up a PL club for a Championship club. Coutts as well, I think, was looking for match time and was told he probably wouldn't get it and so left.
Others will have a different outlook. A couple, at their ages, aren't likely to be members of a PL squad ever again, in those terms they've got to the top - peaked. It must be hard to turn your back on that.
The thing is they were given a contract and presumably a hefty promotion pay rise. If the club isn't happy with what they've got, or with their ability to be a PL player, what the hell were they thinking when they offered the contract? Was it just a dangled carrot that the club didn't think they'd ever have to come good on? If there's a criticism to be voiced, it's got to be at whoever offered the contracts, surely?

 

[diplomat]

Oh sorry. Could easily waited around for a championship club on more money? Nah he joined a club as soon as he can to play football.

Or no championship clubs showed any interest because the injury, along with other serious injuries, have ruined him?

 

[AWetFlannel]

Ought they? Well, I think that is going to differ from person to person. You've got Duffy, who no doubt would have got games and been good enough to stake a claim for a place, but somehow that wasn't good enough - he wanted a better contract and be no.1 choice (if his sulking last year is anything to go by). So he gave up a PL club for a Championship club. Coutts as well, I think, was looking for match time and was told he probably wouldn't get it and so left.
Others will have a different outlook. A couple, at their ages, aren't likely to be members of a PL squad ever again, in those terms they've got to the top - peaked. It must be hard to turn your back on that.
The thing is they were given a contract and presumably a hefty promotion pay rise. If the club isn't happy with what they've got, or with their ability to be a PL player, what the hell were they thinking when they offered the contract? Was it just a dangled carrot that the club didn't think they'd ever have to come good on? If there's a criticism to be voiced, it's got to be at whoever offered the contracts, surely?

Agree with most of that. Would say that the transfer listed players haven't reached the top though as they aren't in the 25 man squad. They will definitely not play a part and are not premier league players imo.

I'm pretty sure all contracts have bonuses for promotion at every level, it's just standard practice and understandable given the revenue increase.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Agree with most of that. Would say that the transfer listed players haven't reached the top though as they aren't in the 25 man squad. They will definitely not play a part and are not premier league players imo.

I'm pretty sure all contracts have bonuses for promotion at every level, it's just standard practice and understandable given the revenue increase.

I agree with that, but that may not be how they see it. They can tell people they are football players at a Premier League club. They can splash the cash. In and around the club they are part of the PL experience. Maybe it's something that will wear off pretty quickly once they experience the reality of not being a part of the squad.

 

[Woodwardfan]

https://www.sheffieldunited.news/op...nwanted-sheffield-united-players-havent-left/ great figures highlighted re Ched's pay rise

There lies the rub, the dilemma, the fact of a contract yet no contribution to our elevation to the P.L. in the last year.

Clark - such a clause and deserves maybe 60% and become a free agent.
Carruthers - why would he have a P.L. inflation clause?nominal 20% if there is one and free agent
Holmes - again why any clause? nominal 20% if there is one and free agent
Heneghan -zero and surely no such clause in his contract.
Wright 20% for old times sake and no such clause surely.

Thing is they have contracts and the 'compromise', the 'way out' lies somewhere in between these figures.

Ched deserved zero and got 100%. So did Duffy get 100% and deserved special treatment and got it.

There's no right or wrong. It's a mess caused by our club's success. Age, fitness, confidence, ambition and pride all come into it.

BUT why should Ched come out smelling of roses? The rest will know full well if he has.

 

[ChrisDysonHT]

There lies the rub, the dilemma, the fact of a contract yet no contribution to our elevation to the P.L. in the last year.

Clark - such a clause and deserves maybe 60% and become a free agent.
Carruthers - why would he have a P.L. inflation clause?nominal 20% if there is one and free agent
Holmes - again why any clause? nominal 20% if there is one and free agent
Heneghan -zero and surely no such clause in his contract.
Wright 20% for old times sake and no such clause surely.

Thing is they have contracts and the 'compromise', the 'way out' lies somewhere in between these figures.

Ched deserved zero and got 100%. So did Duffy get 100% and deserved special treatment and got it.

There's no right or wrong. It's a mess caused by our club's success. Age, fitness, confidence, ambition and pride all come into it.

BUT why should Ched come out smelling of roses? The rest will know full well if he has.

True, True, True and True

 

[bertieblade]

Surely promotion bonuses should be linked to appearances in the promotion season.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Surely promotion bonuses should be linked to appearances in the promotion season.

Yes and yet yes again to negotiations on contracts on departure from the club.

What a time to be a Blades player - even without playing hardly for the first team!!

 

[sheffielder]

Reading this thread, i start to wind the clock forward with Morrison. Particularly thinking about Caruthers, who came with a Jack-the-lad reputation, and assuming he's one of a couple Wilder is on about now, what contract could Morrison have in a year"s time? How much will we have to pay him to keep him and how long a contract?

Not sure where we will get promoted to for him to get a payrise

If he gets a payrise because of games played then he will have deserved it.

 

[William]

Reading this thread, i start to wind the clock forward with Morrison. Particularly thinking about Caruthers, who came with a Jack-the-lad reputation, and assuming he's one of a couple Wilder is on about now, what contract could Morrison have in a year"s time? How much will we have to pay him to keep him and how long a contract?

From what you can see on social media Carruthers at least seems to be one of the one's doing something about it. He's on trial at Cambridge isn't he?

 

[Woodwardfan]

Not sure where we will get promoted to for him to get a payrise

If he gets a payrise because of games played then he will have deserved it.

Hi Sheffielder, it's his new contract in 11 months time I'm thinking about if/when he has proved himself and is in demand from clubs elsewhere. Entirely possible he can become a 'hot property' and who knows whether he would show loyalty to his manager?

 

[Woodwardfan]

From what you can see on social media Carruthers at least seems to be one of the one's doing something about it. He's on trial at Cambridge isn't he?

We'll see. If he has that clause with a wage-hike on the club reaching the Prem. then it's a big challenge to strike a balance for all three parties to any deal.

 

[sheffielder]

Hi Sheffielder, it's his new contract in 11 months time I'm thinking about if/when he has proved himself and is in demand from clubs elsewhere. Entirely possible he can become a 'hot property' and who knows whether he would show loyalty to his manager?

We have an option for his 2nd year

 

[Gimli]

I meant the 5 players go and play. A footballing career is short enjoy it.

80%? I reckon most of the 5 would still get a decent wage in league 1 because they would be top teams sniffing like Rotherham, Pboro and Sunderland etc.

It could be as much as an 80% drop (in theory)

If a player like Leon, who joined us when we were in League One, has promotion rises etc which we all accept is probably true then that puts his wage well above even teams like Posh, Rotherham, Pompey etc.

If he’s on £20k now (no idea) - then 4K a week from a league one team would represent an 80% drop. 4K is probably a decent league one wage.

I’ve made all my figures up obviously but its not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[Woodwardfan]

We have an option for his 2nd year

Wow, I didn't know that, thanks Sheffielder, I can put that to one side.

 

[William]

Really you've just pointed out what footballers think without defending it. What I and others are doing is attacking their motives.

There is no evidence to suggest that being obsessed with money, fame and possessions makes people and their families happier. If they want to live better than average lives, prehaps they should concentrate on intrinsically fulfilling goals rather than vague BS about 'making it to the top' and lies suggesting that wealth = happiness.

I don't think we're talking about losing out on a couple of thousand quid, with the wages they're probably picking up at the moment we're probably talking about hundreds of thousands of pounds. Some of these players probably only dreamed of earning that money a few years ago. You're living in a blinkered world if you think that money doesn't aide quality of life in retirement, and at the age these players are at and with the recent injuries some of them have had, retirement is probably in the forefront of their minds.

I'm sorry, but Wilder's entitled to say whatever he wants, but I can still see these player's point of view. If Wilder prefers to have them away from the club then he needs to get the deals done.

 

[Woodwardfan]

It could be as much as an 80% drop (in theory)

If a player like Leon, who joined us when we were in League One, has promotion rises etc which we all accept is probably true then that puts his wage well above even teams like Posh, Rotherham, Pompey etc.

If he’s on £20k now (no idea) - then 4K a week from a league one team would represent an 80% drop. 4K is probably a decent league one wage.

I’ve made all my figures up obviously but its not beyond the realms of possibility.

In that Clark instance it would be up to United to find a subsidy that clinches the deal for all parties - agree say a £13k a week subsidy for a year, ,maybe more.

 

[finlaytheblade]

There lies the rub, the dilemma, the fact of a contract yet no contribution to our elevation to the P.L. in the last year.

Clark - such a clause and deserves maybe 60% and become a free agent.
Carruthers - why would he have a P.L. inflation clause?nominal 20% if there is one and free agent
Holmes - again why any clause? nominal 20% if there is one and free agent
Heneghan -zero and surely no such clause in his contract.
Wright 20% for old times sake and no such clause surely.

Thing is they have contracts and the 'compromise', the 'way out' lies somewhere in between these figures.

Ched deserved zero and got 100%. So did Duffy get 100% and deserved special treatment and got it.

There's no right or wrong. It's a mess caused by our club's success. Age, fitness, confidence, ambition and pride all come into it.

BUT why should Ched come out smelling of roses? The rest will know full well if he has.

There's a lot of guesswork taking place on wages Woody.
Blades since Wilder came in have been very carefull with how much we pay,
1 example Ched comes out of jail gets a contract at Chesterdfield and we pay them a good fee for his services .What would a good fee be? for a player trying to pick up the pieces of a career ruined by an injustice.
50 k ?' A player struggling with fitness and we pay a big fee for him ! no way!.
His wages would have been in keeping with his desire to play at a high level again probably about 3k .
What I'm getting at is the idea he would have had a massive pay rise like the other non playing group!.
Maybe they have a clause rewarding them but all this talk of big wage hikes must be rubbish.
All of them will be on better money than average league 1 wages and will not like the idea of a drop,cant blame them for staying put,

They will probably all go on loan or a renegotiated settlement.
Can understand Wilder wanting them gone as they don't help with team moral having relationships with squad members.
Wilder as usual telling it how it is .

 

[AWetFlannel]

I don't think we're talking about losing out on a couple of thousand quid, with the wages they're probably picking up at the moment we're probably talking about hundreds of thousands of pounds. Some of these players probably only dreamed of earning that money a few years ago. You're living in a blinkered world if you think that money doesn't aide quality of life in retirement, and at the age these players are at and with the recent injuries some of them have had, retirement is probably in the forefront of their minds.

I'm sorry, but Wilder's entitled to say whatever he wants, but I can still see these player's point of view. If Wilder prefers to have them away from the club then he needs to get the deals done.

No, I've studied sociology and peer reviewed studies show that money and happiness correlate as people are lifted out of poverty; after that, richer people are no happier. These players have earned more than enough and will have fantastic pensions well above the necessary level.

 

[Woodwardfan]

There's a lot of guesswork taking place on wages Woody.
Blades since Wilder came in have been very carefull with how much we pay,
1 example Ched comes out of jail gets a contract at Chesterdfield and we pay them a good fee for his services .What would a good fee be? for a player trying to pick up the pieces of a career ruined by an injustice.
50 k ?' A player struggling with fitness and we pay a big fee for him ! no way!.
His wages would have been in keeping with his desire to play at a high level again probably about 3k .
What I'm getting at is the idea he would have had a massive pay rise like the other non playing group!.
Maybe they have a clause rewarding them but all this talk of big wage hikes must be rubbish.
All of them will be on better money than average league 1 wages and will not like the idea of a drop,cant blame them for staying put,

They will probably all go on loan or a renegotiated settlement.
Can understand Wilder wanting them gone as they don't help with team moral having relationships with squad members.
Wilder as usual telling it how it is .

Post 185 illustrates the Ched case and tells us a lot about the 'ball park' he, and maybe others, are in.

 

[SwindonBladeJnr]

No, I've studied sociology and peer reviewed studies show that money and happiness correlate as people are lifted out of poverty; after that, richer people are no happier. These players have earned more than enough and will have fantastic pensions well above the necessary level.

I have too, but I think it would be a stretch to imagine that results published in academic journals will have any real world influence over a professional footballers career decisions. What is far more likely (and understandable, I think) is that 'happiness' as such will not be forefront of their minds, but the fact that (for some of them) retirement is not too far away and they want to maximise the money they make from the game in the time they have left. It's possible to accept the findings in such studies but also appreciate that it doesn't translate to people's conscious choices and decisions in the real world which is the issue at hand here.

Again, having a 'fantastic pension well above the necessary level' could well be true (though is still an assumption), but in the face of a potential 50%+ pay decrease, I'm not sure how much of a comfort that would be. For some maybe, but we're talking about players here who haven't had top level careers. The contracts they are on now at United will likely be beyond what they could have imagined or anticipated just a couple of years ago and I could entirely understand them thinking 'I'm not chucking this away without a good pay off'.

 

[BushBlade]

It could be as much as an 80% drop (in theory)

If a player like Leon, who joined us when we were in League One, has promotion rises etc which we all accept is probably true then that puts his wage well above even teams like Posh, Rotherham, Pompey etc.

If he’s on £20k now (no idea) - then 4K a week from a league one team would represent an 80% drop. 4K is probably a decent league one wage.

I’ve made all my figures up obviously but its not beyond the realms of possibility.

This could be true but Wilder has already said ‘they won’t be leaving empty handed’ so there are pay-offs to be negotiated. For the younger players there’s a strong argument for taking, say, 60% of their yearly wage to leave, get a two or three year contract on £4K a week and actually play football. In two years Heneghan, for example, could be playing in the championship after another decent season in L1.

I still think we’ll see the younger ones going, if only on subsidised loans.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

I'm not ITK however my pal has been doing some work for Jake Wright recently. Supposedly he returned for pre-season training and had the name from his locker removed without any warning. He spoke really highly of Wilder, but said their relationship has completely broken down now. Wilder made Knill tell him he wasn't going to Portugal 3 days before they left, obviously Wright must have thought he would be going.

Wrights attitude now is to just pick a wage up rather than look for spell away. Not sure if any of you listen to UndrTheCosh but Kilgallon makes reference to a similar experience playing under Steve Bruce, he said initially it was great being paid well to do nothing however after several continuous weeks he hated it.

I have to query Wrights attitude, he's 33 and pretty much accepting money over football in his final years.