Fuck The Bid Pt. II

[Autumn]

Looking at the pigsty's past chairman, and what role they apparently don't play these days is a factor (If I was retired and living in Brazil, this would be a whole lot easier to explain)

Money talks....think of rocknrolla.

But I digress, we should move forward, no tax to pay and a whole lot of ambition for the future lies ahead.

 

[Jon Bon]

'...United believe Wednesday have been shown favouritism by Sheffield City Council in the speed with which planning permission was granted for renovations included in their bid. It is claimed the process took a matter of weeks, when such an application can take years.'

Too true, too bloody true, although it's not wholely the planning department's fault. With the amount of political pressure being put on the whole process from central government and council leaders, the pigs application was always going to be approved no matter what. I would also expect the same to be said of a Blades application if one were submitted at the eleventh hour too.

It should be the selection process that comes under scrutiny cos that was as bent as anything. I have it from very good authority that news of the pigs success in the bid was leaked to Strafford some days before, possibly from Richards but not sure. This is why The Spinmeister put news of a January takeover at Sty6 all over the media on the same day the WC gigs were announced.

Anyway, I'm always up for some fisticuffs. If the club want to fight it, I'll be with 'em all the way. Who's with me...?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Not getting the WC was an excellent outcome. Why spend all the money on empty seats unless a builder gets to pocket it.

Who's a builder around here?

Get on with giving us a team!!!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Building the upgrades generates more income and higher turnover, if the football league do implement their plans to link wage bills to turnover then we would be in a much better position than others.
Remember our upgrades include the enterprise centre and a training facility for the Hallamshire.

 

[Autumn]

Building the upgrades generates more income and higher turnover, if the football league do implement their plans to link wage bills to turnover then we would be in a much better position than others.
Remember our upgrades include the enterprise centre and a training facility for the Hallamshire.

Ah I forgot about the training facility, I agree with you though, we would be in a better position, but knowing our luck they'd decide not to impliment it

 

[alcoblade]

Building the upgrades generates more income and higher turnover, if the football league do implement their plans to link wage bills to turnover then we would be in a much better position than others.
Remember our upgrades include the enterprise centre and a training facility for the Hallamshire.

come on though Bob, at some point you've got to question this. We've heard (and I've bought) the stories about external money supporting the football in bad times. We heard it many times as our debt grew from £10M ish to £50M ish. It's still growing. We are in recession and what are the external links doing - dragging us further into debt. As an example, Chengdu blades lost £2.5M on a turnover of £1M!

I don't buy it anymore. If it's bricks and mortar, McCabe can grasp it (and charge 10% Per year for the privilege). If it's football related he's lost. If your argument were true, surely we now have enough infrastructure to more than support a bang average championship side.

UTB

PS - thanks for the info the other day

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Buying property has always been a good way to protect any investment as the price always goes up if you can sit it out long enough.

The enterprise centre with a contract with the Hallamshire would be recession proof short term which would of helped us in this situation. I have absolutely no doubt that the property investment (not the hotel) will yield big returns in the next few years. The property market is recovering and this can only be good for our investments in this area.

The football side is effected by results on the pitch we haven't been good enough despite the amount of money invested. Now we are in the middle of regrouping before we go again. We blew it at Wembley which had nothing to do with money, we had the better team and the better players.

 

[SwissBlade]

This is what annoys me.

The blinkered view is that we're standing up for what we believe is right or wrong so in this sense good on McCabe. I love the sense of justice that we're striving for...

BUT Of course thats not the only reason, its for financial gain, which is annoying, but also necessary as we lost 30+ from relegation and because we didn't get the world cup (when we have presumably spent out a fair bit already) plus their must be other financial benefits to all this WC 2018 malarky. So on this side you almost want to say its tough sh*te, but lets get on with life...

But as it suits the argument better, I'll base this on the blinkered view and this is my opinion that I gave to a pig fan.

We stand up against what we believe is wrong and we're hated for it and were seen as bad losers!

Yet rules are in place to ensure that everyone has a fair, level playing field, but we're only trying to get a fair and right decision. Are we and most other clubs expected to sit back and accept everything?

Why are we the only club with the balls to say Feck it, its not right so i'll challenge it

Time after time you see the arrogant "its only (insert name)" attitude from the powers in football and now Sheffield Council and the FA's Dave Richards.

I can accept us losing or missing out because we're shite, we've had that all my life, but when we've been shafted due to dodgy decisions and behaviour it p*sses me off.

If we're not going to persue this, then I expect us adopt the attitude of "if you can't beat em, join em" and start bending the rules, shifting the goal posts and greasing palms to get to the top.

And on this basis I obviously fully expect our Chinese club Chengdu Blades, to be completely cleared of all the alledged match fixing charges as this is the normal way of working! Whilst the investigating officer (lovely Chap) dons a new Rolex, holidays in the Bahamas (or malta or Hungary) and gets chauffered around in his fleet of Bentleys whilst quaffing the finest crystal champagne and snorting charlie off the head of a bald midget

But as was suggested earlier, any action we take must not detract from the football side of things.... The football side of the Football club Mr McCabe, remember that bit?

 

[S64 Blade]

This story was reported in the Daily Mail was it not? Need I say anymore?

 

[alcoblade]

Buying property has always been a good way to protect any investment as the price always goes up if you can sit it out long enough.

The enterprise centre with a contract with the Hallamshire would be recession proof short term which would of helped us in this situation. I have absolutely no doubt that the property investment (not the hotel) will yield big returns in the next few years. The property market is recovering and this can only be good for our investments in this area.

The football side is effected by results on the pitch we haven't been good enough despite the amount of money invested. Now we are in the middle of regrouping before we go again. We blew it at Wembley which had nothing to do with money, we had the better team and the better players.

We blew it at Wembley, and went on to sell or lose the better players from that team. Now we don't have the better team or better players, despite the "huge benefits" our 3rd party interest have.


"Buying property has always been a good way to protect any investment as the price always goes up if you can sit it out long enough."......is one way to the poor house, as a philosophy. Many observers think property is in for further falls and wont pick up real steam for 2 - 3 years. And business's don't go bust based on profits, it's cash flow. Something that we have an issue with this year it seems.

"The enterprise centre with a contract with the Hallamshire would be recession proof short term which would of helped us in this situation" - really - like the hotell with the deal with Copthorne? Still losing money.

How much into debt should we go I wonder. Is £70M acceptable? What when LIBOR starts to pick up, as it will. Our creditors (McCabe's) will be laughing their pants off (despite "having the club's interests at heart"), but the club could be in big trouble.

We're becoming far too diverse for a football business, and I for one have become very worried and far lest trust full of our chairman, who's now making nice money from us.

UTB

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

The only figures you have for the hotel were for the opening 6 months.

Not even a full years worth.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

"Buying property has always been a good way to protect any investment as the price always goes up if you can sit it out long enough."......is one way to the poor house, as a philosophy. Many observers think property is in for further falls and wont pick up real steam for 2 - 3 years.

By long enough he means 10 years minimum I suspect

 

[alcoblade]

maybe so, so we'll see on that. What's beyond doubt is that the PLC is heavily in debt, that debt is growing, and the creditors are taking huge sums from us. Those sums are linked to LIBOR, which will only go one way. Not a backdrop where I can see justification for spending a further £20M on stadium development. £20M where no tangeable case for benefits has been made.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

By long enough he means 10 years minimum I suspect

In which case I'd agree, but we can get in a whole lot more trouble in that time.

UTB

 

[Latters]

We finished below 16 clubs that played to the same set of rules as us, and below one club that operated to a different set of rules.

Cheating goes on all the time in football in various guises. Granted, not often to this extent. I just think that a lot of people find it all too easy to blame the West Ham thing for our own failings I.E. not managing to scrape a draw against a poor Wigan side at home, winning just three away games in a season, scoring 8 goals away from home in a whole season etc.

Yes, West Ham shouldn't have cheated, but as a club we seem to focus a lot of our energy on the things we can do nothing about but not address the things that we can actually change.

 

[alcoblade]

though I cringe at the prospect of us taking legal action over the WC bid, I was 100% behind our decision on Tevez. We failed on some scores, but its really difficult to conclude that we weren't both very unlucky over a season, and shafted b WHU.

UTB

 

[raul]

The way I look at it is that SOMEONE was shafted by WHU, but we failed to grasp the opportunity for it to be SOMEONE ELSE.

Barely a peep on various message boards when the original verdict came in because we were that far ahead of them we never (and I include myself in this) thought it would have much to do with us.

 

[alcoblade]

The way I look at it is that SOMEONE was shafted by WHU, but we failed to grasp the opportunity for it to be SOMEONE ELSE.

Barely a peep on various message boards when the original verdict came in because we were that far ahead of them we never (and I include myself in this) thought it would have much to do with us.

Fair points, but it's over a season. I think some of our fans were too harsh on us just because we failed to beat Wigan. If the Arsenal / Wigan fixture were swapped, with the same overall outcome, I think everyone would have agreed that we'd been royally screwed. But that logic surely bares no scrutiny?

UTB

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Fair points, but it's over a season. I think some of our fans were too harsh on us just because we failed to beat Wigan.

Did we ever find out who Jags was waving at?

 

[Deleted member 1486]

Did we ever find out who Jags was waving at?

Us, "see ya's, I'm off to Everton"

 

[Micalijo]

Alco - brilliant effort this morning, simply sensational. Enjoyed it.

 

[Mad Mick]

SUFC to take action against Sheffield Council?

According to this mornings Mail. The headlines say legal action, but then mention the ombudsman and possibly a judicial revue.
Not sure if it were down to me I'd bother. Let the pigs drown in their own excrement. I'm not so sure we'll get the World Cup, and even if we do the number of clubs will be cut dramatically.

 

[Mad Mick]

Sorry didn't see this thread, can you delete mine Linz please?

 

[Eskimo]

I don't see any reason why, in the intererst of public accountability and transparency in decision making, we should not press for feedback which shows clearly how the decisopn to choose one city over another and a particular ground was taken.
I read somewhere that there were 52 criteria; what were they? What weighting (if any) was applied to the different criteria? How were the criteria chosen and what was the decision making process? Was this process moderated or externally audited - did it represent best practice? How cost effective? If the FA can't or wont provide answers to these questions then how can they show that they were working in everyone's best interests and why should there be any confidence or general support with the outcome? If this is United's approach to the matter- I fully support it. Our previous experience suggests we should have little confidence in the people running football or the decisions they make. It stinks.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

already being discussed on the other threads.

 

[billypunton]

For gods sake untangle your lingerie everyone.

Asking for clarification as to the criteria used in a bidding process and then looking at why a bid failed is nothing more than I would expect from professional people. If - thats IF -the criteria has been manipulated and / or ignored to favour one bidder as opposed to another it is also legitimate.

The use of the ombudsman service is also the proper way to look for clarification if people in public office have made decisions in an incorrect way. Its not legal action per se - its a method of examining a process and exposing any weaknesses or failures within the system.

If the thick pigs across town want to twist their tails tighter let them. At least we are run by professionals who deal with matters in an appropriate way based on evidence and logic.

UTB

Totally agree BUT exposing the Council's lack of professional expertise ( LOL) will do nothing to reverse the decision. It will just make sure that if we do not win the World Cup then people will look for a scapegoat...Guess who...there can only be one motive behind this and that is another payout which is worrying...we were told that our finances were nothing to worry about

 

[Foxy]

there can only be one motive behind this and that is another payout which is worrying...we were told that our finances were nothing to worry about

I believe that McCabe said that an investigation would be undertaken to see what caused us to fail in our bid and that lessons would be learned from it for the future.

Given that the club have said nothing at all about taking anyone to court, I think its definately worthwhile to pursue an explanation as to why we weren't chosen.

 

[billypunton]

I believe that McCabe said that an investigation would be undertaken to see what caused us to fail in our bid and that lessons would be learned from it for the future.

Given that the club have said nothing at all about taking anyone to court, I think its definately worthwhile to pursue an explanation as to why we weren't chosen.

But why would the Council provide this information?

Wouldn't it have to come from the 2018 bid committee?

 

[Darren]

There seems to be some confusion about how judicial review works.

It does NOT provide you with a money remedy. It is a means of challenging the decisions of public authorities on the grounds that they are unlawful and/or irrational. A High Court judge looks at the authority's decision making process and if he concludes that the decision was made inm such a way that a law was broken and/or that it was a decision that, given the facts, no reasonable authority could have reached, he will quash the decision and tell the authority to make it again. He will not substitute his own decision.

In this case, I expect that United may approach the ombudsman and see what evidence his investigation throws up. If evidence emerges that the decision was made irrationally or unlawfully, then United may well bring proceedings against the Council. If United succeed, the Council would have to make a fresh decision on the issue - this time lawfully and rationally. United would not make any money out of the case.

 

[beightonblade]

just my opinion............... BUT decisions like picking swillsborough as the venue over BDTBL typifies all whats wrong with the UK !

Go get the barstewards McCabe make the foo kers squirm !

oh by the way the legal system in the UK is a joke ...... hope you never have to experience it ! ...... sum of em in it shud be special needs !